The U.S. Stands to Lose Much More Than a War With Iran

[SalarHaqq]

He didn't say that it was specifically during wartime.

They asked him back in 2019 if they'd ever send a carrier back into the Persian Gulf and he said he would if necessary.

..and here is one going a year later in 2020

US carrier transits Strait of Hormuz amid tensions with Iran

The U.S. Navy says the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier has transited the Strait of Hormuz as tensions between the United States and Iran continue to simmer.

apnews.com

US carrier transits Strait of Hormuz amid tensions with Iran​

USS Nimitz Flight Operations In The Persian Gulf (2020)​

Nor did Ritter say the US regime would position its carriers in the Persian Gulf in the event that it decided to launch an aggression on Iran.

 

[LegionnairE]

Nor did Ritter say the US regime would position its carriers in the Persian Gulf in the event that it decided to launch an aggression on Iran.

it could, as a bait, other than that, if Iran wants to challenge USN in open waters, then at the very least you need something like this and in good numbers.

neither ghadir class, nor the speed boats are going to get even close. Whereas something like this could at least gather intelligence without being detected and sunk.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Yes, go tell that to vice admiral Malloy who claimed a carrier group could be operated unchallenged in the Persian Gulf.

Those days are gone WRT Eyran.

 

[Mehdipersian]

it could, as a bait, other than that, if Iran wants to challenge USN in open waters, then at the very least you need something like this and in good numbers.
View attachment 954340

neither ghadir class, nor the speed boats are going to get even close. Whereas something like this could at least gather intelligence without being detected and sunk.

Persian Gulf has a maximum depth of approximately 100 m and an average depth of approximately 50 m.

Little submarines have best battlefield in persian gulf. These big submarines are for deeper waters. And we have 3 kilo class and 2 fateh class for these waters. Also unknown number of submarines are under construction.

 

[Beny Karachun]

US will HYPE hostile states beyond measure in their disclosures. This is a tactic to feed American Military Industrial Complex (MIC) so it can continue to develop more capable weapons and make American war machine better than before as well as sell arms to numerous countries.

Take a look:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/01/20/computer-simulations-attempting-to-predict-the-price-of-victory/431e5daa-377b-4541-8f69-cf8bfd75e2a2/

Assessing the 1990-1991 Gulf War Forecasts - The Dupuy Institute

A number of forecasts of potential U.S. casualties in a war to evict Iraqi forces from Kuwait appeared in the media in the autumn of 1990. The question of the human costs became a political issue for the administration of George H. W. Bush and influenced strategic and military decision-making...

www.dupuyinstitute.org

As the saying goes:

Appear Weak When You Are Strong: What Sun Tzu Meant

In The Art of War, Sun Tzu says, "Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak." Learn how to master the art of deception.

www.shortform.com

Iranian military capability is reasonable for a regional power but it has significant capability gaps and weaknesses when compared to American military capability on a technical level, but hype sells. The art of deception continues to work.

Let them think they can win against the US lol.

They think they can with those pesky F-5s, F-14s and shitty S-400 knockoffs.

Gonna suck a lot when the US brings B-21 raiders, F-35s, F-22s and probably NGADs, not to mention a bunch of F-15s, F-16s, F-18s. Not to mention cyber attacks that will shut down that country. Not to mention there's a bunch of Iranians waiting for a push to literally destroy the Islamic Republic. Not to mention Israel and NATO.

For Israel, new Iran deal perhaps better than no deal at all​

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/04/israel-new-iran-deal-perhaps-better-no-deal-all

Why Israel (Sort of) Misses the Iran Deal​

That's absolute pure bullshit, Israel does not want an Iranian deal, we need Iran weakened, Iran won't respect any agreement, it will only use it to strengthen its economy, bolster its military and then persue nukes.

If Iran could get nukes it would have done so, Israel is actively preventing through various methods.

 

[LegionnairE]

Persian Gulf has a maximum depth of approximately 100 m and an average depth of approximately 50 m.

Little submarines have best battlefield in persian gulf. These big submarines are for deep waters. And we have 3 kilo class and 2 fateh class for these waters. Also unknown number of submarines are under construction.

Yeah it could be slightly smaller than the Turkish submarines but I'm not talking about the gulf. Iranian navy needs to be effective outside the gulf. Because as we discussed, USN will not operate from the gulf in a war scenario. A submarine with at least 300-400 nm fully submerged range at around 1000-1200 ton displacement should be ideal.

And ironically, Kilos are probably too big, they are oceangoing submarines. Having 2-3 of them is nice for the indian ocean. But the main threats should be around the arabian sea and the red sea.

Also a proper surface combatant with a CIWS and some basic air defenses would be nice, and some sort of big Aksungur like UAV as a maritime patrol aircraft would be nice.

I realize I'm basically desribing a lighter version of Turkish Navy.

If Iran could get nukes it would have done so, Israel is actively preventing through various methods.

Doubt it lol. Iran is perfectly capable of making nukes or acquiring them from Russia, North Korea etc. They just don't want to provoke the Americans. As I said many many times, Iranian leadership is smarter than the forum users here.

I just don't agree with their defense procurement. I think they failed to modernze the military and are too stubborn in their ways to make the necessary reforms.

 

[Mehdipersian]

Yeah it could be slightly smaller than the Turkish submarines but I'm not talking about the gulf. Iranian navy needs to be effective outside the gulf. Because as we discussed, USN will not operate from the gulf in a war scenario. A submarine with at least 300-400 nm fully submerged range at around 1000-1200 ton displacement should be ideal.

And ironically, Kilos are probably too big, they are oceangoing submarines. Having 2-3 of them is nice for the indian ocean. But the main threats should be around the arabian sea and the red sea.

Also a proper surface combatant with a CIWS and some basic air defenses would be nice,.and some sort of big Aksungur like UAV as a maritime patrol aircraft would be nice.

We have many drone types for gathering intelligence. Like this class:

Also i think we can use our friend satellites.

 

[LegionnairE]

We have many drone types for gathering intelligence. Like this class:
View attachment 954346

Also i think we can use our friend satellites.

Yeah, more of this, if they can drop sonobuoys too that would be perfect.

Satellites are good for getting the general picture but their orbits are too fast, They can give you the rough area of where carrier groups might be, but by the time the missiles are fired they will be long gone. So you can't use them to update target information even if you had the capability for the satellite to talk directly to the missile.

Satellites also easily get obstructed by weather, clouds etc.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Let them think they can win against the US lol.

They think they can with those pesky F-5s, F-14s and shitty S-400 knockoffs.

Gonna suck a lot when the US brings B-21 raiders, F-35s, F-22s and probably NGADs, not to mention a bunch of F-15s, F-16s, F-18s. Not to mention cyber attacks that will shut down that country. Not to mention there's a bunch of Iranians waiting for a push to literally destroy the Islamic Republic. Not to mention Israel and NATO.

I have a better idea: let the USA regime try its luck and actually proceed with all the above. Oh, it won't? Thought so.

That's absolute pure bullshit, Israel does not want an Iranian deal, we need Iran weakened, Iran won't respect any agreement, it will only use it to strengthen its economy, bolster its military and then persue nukes.

Iran is doing exactly that without a so-called deal. Except for pursuing nuclear weapons, which has not been and isn't on the agenda.

The JCPOA was intended to be followed up by similar agreements neutralizing Iran's missile arsenal as well as regional alliance system. Iran perfectly stuck to her engagements under the JCPOA, as repeatedly confirmed by the IAEA. So the process initiated by that deal, if brought to conclusion, would have deprived Iran of three decisive deterrence assets at her disposal. Much like Libya when it entered agreements with the west, giving up its nuclear program and much of its military strength. We saw how that ended for Tripoli.

If Iran could get nukes it would have done so, Israel is actively preventing through various methods.

Iran could manufacture nuclear warheads anytime. But isn't, since the Supreme Leader issued a religious verdict banning said weapons.

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Doubt it lol. Iran is perfectly capable of making nukes or acquiring them from Russia, North Korea etc. They just don't want to provoke the Americans. As I said many many times, Iranian leadership is smarter than the forum users here.

Self-contradiction. Acquiring nuclear weapons would not be tantamount to inviting USA military aggression, on the contrary it would doubly cement Iranian deterrence power. Washington is not declaring war on nuclear armed nations.

I just don't agree with their defense procurement. I think they failed to modernze the military and are too stubborn in their ways to make the necessary reforms.

The wisdom of Iran's asymmetric defence doctrine is evidenced by the fact that it masterfully achieved to ward off USA military aggression.

 

[LegionnairE]

Self-contradiction. Acquiring nuclear weapons would not be tantamount to inviting USA military aggression, on the contrary it would doubly cement Iranian deterrence power. Washington is not attacking nuclear armed nations.

The wisdom of Iran's asymmetric defence doctrine is evidenced by the fact that USA military aggression has been averted.

Nuclear armed nations with significant stockpiles* there, I fixed it for you.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

I laugh at this. Not some backward country like Iran. Iran is no match for USA's military.

But I doubt USA will go to war with Iran because:

1) USA's reputation is at stake
2) Iran is Shia, against the Sunni majority

 

[SalarHaqq]

Nuclear armed nations with significant stockpiles* there, I fixed it for you.

No, nuclear armed nations period. Especially if the zionist entity is within their reach.

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I laugh at this. Not some backward country like Iran. Iran is no match for USA's military.

Says someone with no real clue of Iranian technological achievements.

But I doubt USA will go to war with Iran because:

1) USA's reputation is at stake

What reputation? Washington has an endless record of launching wars of aggression.

2) Iran is Shia, against the Sunni majority

Iran is not against any "Sunni majority". Lay off the sectarianist lens.

 

[LegionnairE]

No, nuclear armed nations period. Especially if the zionist entity is within their reach.

Whatever... Whatever their reasons may be, either they are unwilling to make nuclear weapons or they already have, but aren't announcing it.

it's 1945 technology, they have all the basics, they have the centrifuges, they enrich their own uranium etc.

Pakistan did it decades ago

 

[Mehdipersian]

I laugh at this. Not some backward country like Iran. Iran is no match for USA's military.

But I doubt USA will go to war with Iran because:

1) USA's reputation is at stake
2) Iran is Shia, against the Sunni majority

I think you are moron. Your comments are meaningless.

Why you start a debate with no knowledge?!?

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

I think you are moron. Your comments are meaningless.

Why you start a debate with no knowledge?!?

lol you think Iran can beat USA in a war? You got to be kidding me.

I think you are moron. Your comments are meaningless.

Why you start a debate with no knowledge?!?

Actually you are a moron. Do you honestly think Iran can beat USA in a war?

Iran only has a population of 80 million.

USA has a population of 333 million people! LOL!