The truth of 1971 by Sheikh Haseena Wajid

[TopCat]

Here is the scenario for all to judge and conclude.
Sheikh Mujib's ,AML, the major political party in East Pakistan, which incidentally was the the most populous of the two wings wins outright, he's invited to form a government in Islamabad, which happens to be in West Pakistan, but he's adamant to shift all brick and motor to Dacca in East Pakistan, including the capital, state bank and Naval HQ. If East Pakistan was part of my country, why didn't Sheikh also saw West as his home. Even if it's agreed to shift all to Dacca, what about the next elections, say a party wins from the West, and then they want all moved back to Islamabad, Karachi or Lahore, hence we end up playing musical chairs with the country's set up. I mean how would you guys feel if your PM wants to shift all to Punjab and the next one to Madras and so on..... The sound of distant drums is sweet to the ears, but not when they are beating close to your head.!!!

Well, If you had considered E. Pakistan as your country then what was your problem to come to Dhaka for the assembly? Why did not you see East as your home?
Nobody asked to shift capital to Dhaka. Even if he did then I dont think that should be a problem in a democratic country and could be debated.

It is very convenient for you to talk that way as you were from W. Pakistan and you already had everything in West while depriving everything from East. Just imagine a citizen of East Pakistan would have 1 in a million chance to see his countries capital in his lifetime if he were born in E. Pakistan. Did you guys had any thought to it and how to address those problems. Mujib and we gave you some headways through 6 point demand and instead of debating on it in Parliament you guys started a killing people on the street.

 

[Luftwaffe]

All done and gone...Bangladesh is a break off state instead of coming to the table they chose their wrong ways..
We all have to move one frankly the yearly flooding in bangladesh if even it was our part, it was out of our economic reach to fix problem year by year..

india? a nation that fingers others is getting fingered within..naxalites and maoists and so many more..they shall eat what they sow..

 

[SMC]

The source you have quoted is subject to a lot of debate already.
Forget the rest. Can you give a simple answer, why Mujb was not allowed to form a Govt. despite his fair election victory? Was that not injustice to E. Pakistan who was represented by Mujib? anyways all the points have been covered i suggest you read the posted arguments.

As far as I go, I personally believe that it was good that we got separated because of totally different cultures and that West Pakistan was more dominant over East. And also that Bangladesh will soon be under water. But that much aside, my main problem is the propaganda done by RAW and Indians about PA in this particular event.

 

[Windjammer]

Well, If you had considered E. Pakistan as your country then what was your problem to come to Dhaka for the assembly? Why did not you see East as your home?
Nobody asked to shift capital to Dhaka. Even if he did then I dont think that should be a problem in a democratic country and could be debated.

It is very convenient for you to talk that way as you were from W. Pakistan and you already had everything in West while depriving everything from East. Just imagine a citizen of East Pakistan would have 1 in a million chance to see his countries capital in his lifetime if he were born in E. Pakistan. Did you guys had any thought to it and how to address those problems. Mujib and we gave you some headways through 6 point demand and instead of debating on it in Parliament you guys started a killing people on the street.

If you must then recall that we had discussed all this to the bone on the Bangladesh forum, I don't know about you but it all happened before i was born, in any case no one can determine history, what was written though has been done, hence no point in beating the dead bush.

 

[TopCat]

All done and gone...Bangladesh is a break off state instead of coming to the table they chose their wrong ways..
We all have to move one frankly the yearly flooding in bangladesh if even it was our part, it was out of our economic reach to fix problem year by year..

india? a nation that fingers others is getting fingered within..naxalites and maoists and so many more..they shall eat what they sow..

Well that exactly was the demand of E. Pakistan to let us take care of our floods and let W. Pakistan take care of their desert.

 

[Iggy]

All done and gone...Bangladesh is a break off state instead of coming to the table they chose their wrong ways..
We all have to move one frankly the yearly flooding in bangladesh if even it was our part, it was out of our economic reach to fix problem year by year..

india? a nation that fingers others is getting fingered within..naxalites and maoists and so many more..they shall eat what they sow..

I dont know how many more times we have to say this that Maoists dont want a separate state..They need their power in Delhi thats all..they are also patriotic people but their ideologies are different ..

 

[thebrownguy]

Guys this thread has gone great so far, its shaped up great, with a lot of fair, frank and mature talk. Lets not get into petty fights and derail it
Regards

 

[Luftwaffe]

iajdani...sorry brotha its the fact with our economy and if bangladesh was our part we could and would never have supported you to that extend in doing so our economy would have been burdened and more external Loans..so maybe God had decided this to happen as windjammer clearly said "what was written though has been done, hence no point in beating the dead bush." except don't give credit to indians for the liberation it is our own flesh and blood that has provided you with arms and weapons along with China to defend your nation even after some of them betrayed us..we've always came to your rescue did you rescue our soldiers who were murdered by muktis.?

 

[vandemataram]

Ahhh...Ahmed Quraishi.....Need I say anything more....?

I do not know why we Indians do get so hyper whenever there is a news or an article or an opinion published regarding R & AW, be it in India or Pakistan or Bangladesh.

As some of my fellow Indians have said, they do not read much into Ahmed Quraishi as he is a known India baiter.

Now coming to the main pont of argument:

@ Windjammer - what is it that you are exactly trying to prove. I know that you have not written the article, but I can expect some of your own views on the basis of what is being written in the article.

I dont think there is anything special that needs to be discussed about R&AW capabilities and the various "projects" it has participlated in since its inception in 1960's.

What should amuse and interest Indians like me, is how did R&AW achieve its objectives, the processes, the methodologies, activities of "buying out" and creation of moles. I mean there is nothing to be ashamed of R&AW's activities and successes.

I am sure very small percentage of Indians know it even exists: its functioning, reporting lines, org structure, budgets and the officers are the things that I feel Indians should be strongly aware of.

After all information warfare, psyOps, bribing, covert actions, political assasinations, insertion of moles, working with the enemy's enemy, cultivating assets and network, ELINT, SIGINT and HUMINT all part and parel of the game?

MI6, Mossad, DGFI, KGB are all birds of the same feather, so what is the big deal. It is their basic call of duty and they are doing that...

Just my 2 cents

 

[Windjammer]

I am sure very small percentage of Indians know it even exists: its functioning, reporting lines, org structure, budgets and the officers are the things that I feel Indians should be strongly aware of.

The same can be said of Pakistani Citizens, majority of them are not only oblivious of ISI but also have no idea about India's premier spy agency, but perhaps you can shed some light as why the ISI is a house hold name in India, those who portray the ISI as the culprit for India's woes are the cream of your society and spear head your frivlious media, and they are deemed snow white credible, last word in honesty and professionalism, but flick the coin over and it's all fake and forged.

@ Windjammer - what is it that you are exactly trying to prove.

Why my preacher suddenly becomes your poacher.??!!

 

[sparklingway]

LOL if there was ever an example of taking in propaganda as facts this is one.

There is nothing to LOL about it. You can debate the magnitude of the massacre and the number of killed, but denying outright that it ever happened is plain ignorance.

PS:- I wonder why a similarly unfruitful debate pops up in a thread every ten hours or so, especially when people are only willing to get an affirmation of their own myopic views rather than wishing to learn. I'll quote something great I once read on a forum, "Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices"

 

[sparklingway]

One of the most shameful episodes ever was the creation of Bangladesh. People may want to point fingers at India, but the problem was deep rooted somewhere between Pakistan's ethnicity divide and religious intolerance!!!

Some Quotes and Figures for anyone who wasn't born at this time, but would like to do more reading

This thread is concerned with India's infiltration of East Pakistan, her reasons for training and supporting a rebel organization and her justifications for a war on Pakistan. East Pakistani and West Pakistani views have been dealt in many many threads already and have been hinted at by many (including me) in this thread. There is no need to add fuel to the fire. You are digressing from the topic.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stick to the topic please - I had to delete 30 plus posts that rambled about almost everything under the sun.

 

[Hulk]

The Punjabi politicians are actually happy with creation of BD. It's only people that feel otherwise. The punjabi's have a superiority complex and could not have tolerated a Bengali PM that's a fact. Can Pakistani accept Zia as their PM, no way. If they think India played bad then try reuniting and see how hate grows.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I can understand why the people who took up arms but I cannot sympathize with them.

You can argue that is based on a myopic viewpoint hat I've been inculcated with but my love for my country is far too deep to sympathize with armed rebels who are willing to collaborate with the enemy.

Completely agree - as I have often pointed out, whatever discrimination East Pakistanis had to face, it was nowhere close to the sorts of discrimination and prejudice some communities in other nations have had to face, the African Americans and indigenous people of North America for example.

Yet MLK chose to wage his struggle against segregation and racial inequality (far worse that anything East Pakistan ever suffered at the hands of West Pakistan), through peaceful means.

Many would argue that discrimination and racism, overt and covert, exists even today in the US, and in terms of socio-economic indicators African Americans continue to lag far behind other communities, yet no one suggests that African Americans should have taken assistance from the USSR and rebelled against the US, or that they should form an alliance with Al Qaeda to unleash a reign of terror in the US to force their demands upon the GoUS.

Unleashing a reign of terror against West Pakistani civilians and security forces, in collaboration with India, was unfortunately precisely what East Pakistani separatists did in the run-up to Op. Searchlight, and for that there can be no 'sympathy' nor 'understanding'. While I understand the need for introspection and analysis of the actions and events from the West Pakistani side that caused the alienation of the people of EP (so as to not repeat those mistakes), that introspection should not come at the cost of recognizing what the separatists did was also wrong - terror and violence against non-combatants has no justification whatsoever.