What's new

'The System'-by WAJsal

Sir great read ... However few contributions from myy side

First i would like to highlight that not onlyy judiciary is not performing its part also instituions are not playing its part.. We have lot of instituions pakistan other than army and judiciary that includes police, accountability institutions such as NAB, parliment, FBR and beajrcracy ... All those departments need to be independent and self govern ... Government job is to make policies and procedures but institutions has to work under those policies and procedures but not to get dictations from government ... There should be clear chain of authority between vovernment and beaurcracy...

Secondly as per my opinion decline of Pakistan started from bhuttos decision to nationalize businesses ... Bhutto not only nationalized the businesses but destroyed all goverment and make them subservient to politicians ...

Now imagine if there is an organization where all decisions have to be taken by a person who has no knowledge of that particular business and who is going to be there only for 5 years at max ..

There are basic flaws in system and that will not change automatocally...

I strongly disagree that only waiting game and by vote things will get change ... Someone has to take responsibility and take headon against status quo ...
 
.
Nothing too serious. Just utilizing some free-time. I hope i am not repeating the same things... Thought it would be interesting to discuss this, especially in today's context when the debate is so hot in Media and. Enjoy and before posting i would like to thank @Joe Shearer , for his help in editing.
PS: fancy English is all his doings...
@Side-Winder , could you please look to share it on social media, give it more audience. Would be appreciated.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ‘System’-By WAJsal
View attachment 343380

The recent comments made by former President Pervez Musharraf regarding Democracy and its ineffectiveness in Pakistan incited strong and harsh reactions from different democratic sectors, particularly the politician. These statements begged the same old questions in one’s mind, ‘whether democracy is actually the best system for Pakistan…’ and many such questions linked to that.

Being a keen observer of the political history of Pakistan and a firm supporter of a democratic system and democratic ideas, these comments also begged me to question my beliefs. Before one shares one’s analysis on the subject, one begs the question whether democracy is a better system compared to dictatorship, and specifically in the context of Pakistan. One doesn’t have to give it much of a thought, really. Dictatorship in Pakistan has caused almost irreversible damage to the country and to its ideology; democracy, on the other hand, has never been given a proper chance to grow and prosper. One thing the general public is quite wrong to do is to confuse democracy with the politicians who are associated with the system. Dictatorship has not really been an efficient system anywhere in the world, any time in history, apart from there being no checks and balances in it. Instead, a class, the ruling class, is un-touchable and beyond the law, while comparatively, democracy, if properly administered, has all the checks and balances a system requires.

Moving on to the main topic of my write-up, do I think that Democracy in Pakistan has no checks and balances and that it is an ineffective system for Pakistan? Yes and a no. Democracy is not a divine system, it is not flawless, it’s is not mistake free. In my opinion any system without the right people in the right place will inevitably become a useless and a corrupt system. Be it by design and intent the best functioning system ever, a system requires devoted and “right” people to be successful. It requires a will, will from the “right” people, will from the “right” type of people, will from the general public. There are many examples of countries doing much better than they should only because of the “right” people leading in the right place. Right people is put in quotation marks as it is not my intention to propose an elite ruling class, only individuals, as the right people.

There are today certainly few or no checks and balances in Pakistan, be it under a democracy or a dictatorship; the scale does vary regarding the degree of corruption in both systems. The problem with democracy in Pakistan is with certain gaps in the judicial system and the whole system, of which the judicial section forms a part, in general too, which allows the corrupt room to breathe and to practice freely what they do. The biggest hurdle in my opinion is still having the wrong people at the right place. Honesty is lacking and is the biggest piece of the puzzle. Politicians most often do give democracy a bad image in Pakistan, but they should not be confused the ‘system’ at all.

Not to get into the technicality of things, there are many gaps in justice system which are exploited by the corrupt. Justice is very hard to find and is usually very slow to find. There are cases of people getting a judgement after 17 years and being released from involuntary imprisonment in jail. These are some of the biggest flaws in the system, but the biggest flaw is our ignorance of these flaws. There is no will from any concerned authority. The status quo ante remains and people forget everything wrong that happens in a matter of days.

One wonders why the status quo ante never works in our favour, to improve the ‘system’ as a whole, fix basic problem of mentality with the police, fix basic problems faced by farmers who face number of problems from the ‘Patwaris’. Is it really impossible or beyond our understanding to fix these basic problems, fix electoral system. Strengthen the system and democracy. Do we not have the resources to fix these problems? No. The only thing lacking is the will. The corrupt are at the top in this country and every one of these small problems is most definitely in one way or another linked to the ruling elite. The ruling elite is in one or the other linked to every sector facing corruption, or to activities that are exhausting the countries resources and weakening the economy.

In simple words, the status quo ante would never fix the basic problems faced by the people as it feeds them in one way or another. If the ‘system’ as a whole is fixed, the majority of the present ruling class would either be in jail or would have to find a different profession.


The Way forward…

“Pakistan had retained the structure of the colonial state from its inception. Lacking an indigenous bourgeoisie, dominated by a feudal elite totally dependent upon the colonial bureaucracy, deprived of well-structured programme-oriented and duly encadred political parties and without a judiciary which would jealously protect civil authority and the citizen rights, Pakistan saw a gradual choking of the democratic spirit from its early days.” Aitazaz Ahsan-Divided by democracy


Pakistan’s future certainly lies in some form of democracy successive democratic governments have strengthened the system in general and the country is slowly but surely coming back on track. The system still requires many things to really deliver. For the general public, democracy or any other system means nothing as long as it is not delivering. The general public wants to see immediate results, which is not possible. The administrative system in Pakistan was never formed fully by the founding fathers[ an independent country, a free state was formed, but the administrative foundation was, as mentioned before, never laid down. Soon after its independence, Pakistan faced disaster. Pakistan was to have been a democratic state ruled by the people and by the people only. Instead, it was steered on a course that was contrary to the nation’s ideology.

The Army in Pakistan plays a key role. Its role has become greater especially in times when it is expected to hold back and let the civilians lead. One thing that General Raheel Sharif has done has given Army the direction or a path of professionalism that it needs to follow. The psyche in Army has seen a change after the last episode of martial law; it has realized that ruling the country is not its job. The civilians should be allowed to make the laws and form policies. The important thing in this change of heart is for continuity of these policies to the time when civilians really do dominate the scene. Only if there is sustained continuity of these policies, and these ways of formulating policy, will the system get the time and the breathing space it needs to evolve gradually.

The Judiciary plays a big role in any system; free and fair justice means a prospering society. The opposite holds true. A weak, failed society is a result of a flawed justice system. The Judiciary in Pakistan has always been under the influence of the powerful. The poor are left searching for justice for years, and decades in some cases. Judiciary needs to reak these shackles;, the general belief in the Judiciary is that it should not interfere with how a government is run or with any policy that is implemented. The sour taste of previous tenures, like the one of Iftikhar Chaudry, still remain. Some even go on to call it a ‘muk muka’ between leading elements preserving the status quo ante - the ruling parties and the judiciary. On the contrary, I believe that, it is the unfounded fear of interfering and the unfounded fear of questioning the people’s mandate that keeps the Judiciary from delivering. Delivering,for instance, in cases like the 2013 electoral riggings and the recent Panama leaks. The Judiciary needs to reform itself, it is the judiciary which should itself implement any reforms it suggests to the government. Appropriate constitutional amendments should be made and justice should be made fair, swift and equal for all. It should be realized that the Judiciary is the only institution or third party that should resolve political differences. When people looking to the army to arbitrate, it is a failure of the politicians, but also a failure of the judicial system.

Moving on to the last point, the politicians are the ‘people at the right place’. Politicians need to look, have to look, to think about the country rather than their personal gains. The psyche leading us to a status quo ante needs to change, or I would go on to say that the psyche is beyond any external reforms. The people need to change the status quo altogether, need to use the power that they have. ‘The people don’t know the power they have.’ In a country like Pakistan, a small number of families, a particular class, rules this country and is eating it up from within like a termite eats wood. making it hollow and empty from within. All the resources are being looted and the beneficiary is this ruling class by and large. Any revolution or ‘change’ can only be brought in by the people and by the people only, by expressing their will through the ballot; forceful interventions by a third party have always made thing complicated. This in turn has benefited this class. Making a political martyr is the last thing Pakistan needs. In this, the Judiciary has to act as the instrument of the people, and has to ensure that the actions of the politicians are in consonance with the will of the people, since the people cannot act on their own.

We have to bring in checks and balances in Pakistan,the system has gradually, over time, made good the lack of an original foundation and installed everything – almost everything All the institutions need all the laws present. Over time, every time we got thwarted, we learnt from our mistakes and improved the system incrementally. As stated before, it is the ‘will’ to implement these rules and regulations that is missing. There are surely some lacunae in the law, some gaps. But all society has flaws. These flaws, social, economic, and somewhat cultural take time to be resolved. The institutions that should be doing their jobs are influenced and directed by the politicians, which is a major problem. Fixing this involves making room for the ‘checks and balances’ a system requires in Pakistan.

On a concluding note, I would like to add that in my opinion and in the opinion of many, Pakistan is at a very fragile state in its history. It might either boom and become the state long dreamt off or go into oblivion and be a weak and next to un-fixable state like Afghanistan or Iraq. There are surely many international powers in the picture that don’t want to see a resolution. We have taken a stand against terrorism and the times are not far when we shall have a peaceful environment, a stable secure environment, the society we used to have.

As we have seen, this will need the Army to stand aloof from the administration of the country and of policies, and to do its job of defence of the state without getting into each and every aspect of the functioning of the country.

It will need the Judiciary to act according to the strictest principles of constitutionalism and the rule of law. The Judiciary must search for the best interests of the people, as evidenced by their will revealed through the ballot, and must not make the mistake of assuming that the politician wholly represents the will of the people: today, the politician only represents the self-interest of the politician.

The political class has to reform, or submit to reform; we need politicians who put the country above themselves.

Most of all, we need the people to remain fixed and unchanging in their resolve to achieve a well-governed, prosperous and peaceful state, and to demand this through their exercise of their vote, and through a watchful vigilance over the direction that the country is taking.

All the efforts are a waste without the continuity of the policies. The averity in general public has to grow. Pakistan cannot afford to go back anymore. No international power can dictate us anymore. We shall not be ruled a class of families looking to destroy this country and looking to remain in rule for years to come. Democracy is the future of this country, a people’s revolution is required. Right people in the right place is the only thing Pakistan requires.

First posted on PDF
(Please don't use this without any permission.)

Assume Musharraf is right. The question is why he waste his time creating the "King" party. One Mr Jamali was the PM of Pakistan. Gen Zia did the same with Mohammed Khan Junejo as PM and Nawaz Sharif as CM of Punjab.

Being next to India seems to put a compulsion on Pakistani army to create a sham democracy to avoid international sanctions.

any thoughts ??
 
.
@WAJsal

To paraphrase Democracy is not a one size fits all solution. Each country has it's own torturous and never ending laborious path to preserve the rights and entitlements democracy guarantees the electorate. In short Democracy is not an end but a journey. So yes, there will be missteps, yes we will wander off the path for something shiny, yes we will have our affairs with other governance systems but sooner or later equilibrium will re-establish and people will assert their wishes.

Leaders though all important at the moment are often irrelevant, the wheels of democracy are run by bureaucrats who more often than not are just common folks, with common means and common aspirations. I am not talking about cabinet secretaries or like but the grade 4 junior officer, block or village level administrator. Without them the leaders are nothing ergo without us the leaders are nothing

Yet there is an insurmountable gulf b/w the masters of democracy and us - How do we resolve this contradiction? Unity of purpose! Time and again - when people unite, the leaders bend. As long as we are divided, we will be exploited.

Disclaimer - It is equally likely that a clever demagogue will incite/manufacture a purpose and extract the mandate @Joe Shearer wouldn't have let this post stand without the disclaimer.

Only solution to above is wisdom - not literacy, not education but garden variety genetic wisdom. Wisdom as old as the 10 commandments or vedas or Quran passed on to all of us which teach us to be righteous, to love our neighbors and to be be honest. This centuries old moral compass is inherent in all of us. We just have to acknowledge it.
 
.
upload_2016-10-14_15-46-45-png.343380
very nice & intelligent depiction :tup:.

Every system is good as its ppl who run them. Even the best or well established system will fail if the quality of ppl is bad. Democracy is no exception.
 
.
Sir, it will be great if you elaborate a bit more.
Take the Turkish Army as an example,something comparable happened to the Pakistani Army and im sure you knew this already.;)
 
Last edited:
.
Especially a dictator and mad khan should not come in power since he is no more good than Qadafi and Taliban.
Panama Sharif will be Jailed and hanged afterwards in between 2018. Thats his fate whether you like it or not.
 
.
Enjoy and before posting i would like to thank @Joe Shearer , for his help in editing.
PS: fancy English is all his doings...

That, is @Joe Shearer specialty. However, what he has said, and I strongly agree here, is the thought behind the write up is what one must really understand, the essence.

Exquisite. I have no other words here @WAJsal

@WAJsal


Please delete the posts which are derailing a perfectly good thread. Let us have a quality post thread here. :enjoy:

Thanks

Secondly as per my opinion decline of Pakistan started from bhuttos decision to nationalize businesses ... Bhutto not only nationalized the businesses but destroyed all goverment and make them subservient to politicians ...

Would you not attribute the decline of Pakistan to the failure of a new born nation to strengthen it's civil institutions which form the core of governance in any nation, singularly attributable to the usurping of the democratic system with which the nation was born?

What, in your opinion, would have been the effect if these nascent institutions/offices were allowed to consolidate and strengthen under a democratic and civil control, as opposed to what occurred, a military government which was trying to consolidate it's own position and legitimacy after usurping a civilian power structure and democracy, and who would have the maximum benefit from weakness of civil institutions?

Indeed, what appears to me, is that the civil governance model was dealt a fatal blow in it's infancy, when it was the most susceptible to any such acts.

Now imagine if there is an organization where all decisions have to be taken by a person who has no knowledge of that particular business and who is going to be there only for 5 years at max ..

What you allude to is a simile to a mismanaged industrial unit/organisation. How can you certify that a particular person is fit/unfit to lead an organisation/industrial unit and, as an extension, a nation?

It is the "The System" which is created to introduce a regime of checks and balances to cater to this very peculiarity of leadership traits or lack thereof.

When the industrial unit/organisation can be run on the principle of a "going concern" and necessary checks and balances exist in any such unit, do you think that the nation is an entity otherwise?

The alternative, is a person who has no idea, and is allowed to continue for decades. What do you think will be an impact then?

What is inherent to any nation, and what should be inherent, is a consistency of policies on a broader front. The 'nuts and bolts' can differ, but the national objectives and aims should be clearly defined and laid out in front of the public. The national political discourse should focus primarily and secondarily on these objectives/aims, common to the nation as whole, only. In tertiary, you can have the usual irrelevant points which each political outfit has.

What insures a democracy, is the consistency of the national aims. What marks it as being a sound and vibrant system, is the clarity of the national objectives. That is where, the voter needs to be educated, by his/her own self.


I strongly disagree that only waiting game and by vote things will get change ... Someone has to take responsibility and take headon against status quo ...


Totally agreed. And that someone has to be the common citizen of Pakistan!
 
.
Good read @WAJsal you put a lot of time and effort into it. Much appreciated.

I first was reminded by your title of one of my favourite books ever "My system", a great work about chess by the great Aron Nimzowitsch. @Chauvinist

We seem to be coming full circle even in the developed world with the political "gangs" permeating and ruining the edifices of democracy.

A statesman like Ike would be turning in his grave at what the US has been turning into over the last couple decades for example.

But the relatively nascent democracies of the world owe to themselves to hit their stride and peak down the road, like the US did in the middle of the 20th century...so that we may weather the inevitable declines and troughs.

I feel that this will need equal measures of overall education, socio-economic churning and time.

Each person at the end of their journey must ask, "Am I leaving "the system" in better shape than I found it?", and introspect the answer and share it with those around him/her. It is the only way we can learn and improve that which we are surrounded by. The valuable lessons cannot just be read from books and the media, they must come from those around us that we care and love so much.....so that somewhere down the road, someone in our extended network that we influenced or were influenced by can find themselves in a real position to do something. With the butterfly effect in play, sometimes all it takes is a few good men and good luck. I wish that upon all countries of the world.
 
.
Democracy in Pakistan has been great (not for common Pakistanis), it has so many achievements to its credit that we Pakistanis can cherish and be proud of (not) ................ one of those is it produced a Zardari who claims he is a Bhutto too and a hordes of people believe him. After all isn't democracy all about how to win the elections only.

Where else it could have happened that a Molana who is known for diesel business, has his links with the worst of terrorists but gets to sit on the government benches no matter which party is in rule................ or a confused Khan who concludes the protest by declaring his second marriage.

I wish these billionaire democrats of Pakistan the best of luck ......... they have been successful all this time to limit their fear to one and only threat................ their politics ensured no real threat or competition from common Pakistanis. And based on their past trend and politics I think they can still try and make CPEC another Kalabagh …… or if not that then may be they can amend some documents pass some resolutions and change the name of CPEC to something like CKBSPGBEC ....... that would be a great achievement before next elections to be held in 2018. After all Pakistani democracy is about winning the elections only.

I wonder who had the vision and will for a city like Islamabad and a project like Tarbela ……. was it some FA pass General or some Fake degree holder politician?

The bitter truth remains Pakistan still needs four to five years of a ruthless authoritative dictator (doesn't matter if he is wearing a uniform as long as he does what needs to be done) who can wipe Pakistan's politics of these corrupt dynasties, Makhdooms, Wadairas, Sardars, sellouts and Chuadhries. And he delivers simple, clear, understandable and enforceable laws.

In nutshell ...... in my opinion based on very shallow knowledge (rather selfish desires) Pakistan needs four to five years of an honest ruthless dictator for some real future democracy to happen in Pakistan. Otherwise the sad reality remains that Pakistan had NS (The ameer ul momineen) as PM when I was 12 years old and it has still the same PM when I have started growing grey hair ………..
 
.
In nutshell ...... in my opinion based on very shallow knowledge (rather selfish desires) Pakistan needs four to five years of an honest ruthless dictator for some real future democracy to happen in Pakistan.

Thing is how many times has this been said? It's getting boring to hear it.

It is on the Pakistan people themselves to form a govt, elite and leadership that they can appreciate over time.

Praying for a miracle leader is a desperate thing to do.
 
.
Thing is how many times has this been said? It's getting boring to hear it.

As long as some miracle happens and Pakistani populace starts questioning, demand rights ........ which they never will.

It may be boring for you to hear it ................. we are living this boredom of watching everyday drama of these saviors of a non existent democracy.

It is on the Pakistan people themselves to form a govt, elite and leadership that they can appreciate over time.

If Pakistani people had that capability I won't be wishing for a ruthless dictator to rid us of these fake democracy loving politicians and volumes and volumes of useless outdated laws.

Praying for a miracle leader is a desperate thing to do.

Live in a confused system and you will know what it means.
 
.
sorry but pakistan does need democracy,what it needs is sharia
in democracy the people decide the laws whether they be haram or halal it does not matter
while sharia only the most competent and knowledgeable in islamic law is selected by a shura
besides the majority of the country want sharia law an only the tiny,very tiny minority(majority of which is pdf) keeps asking for all the democracy crap
basically the minority is terrorising the majority
oh also,before anyone says sharia is bad
let me tell you that sharia is laws that Allah gave us while democracy is man made and it will never be better than Allah's laws
and also,those that disagree with sharia,well you are not really muslim and only muslim in name
basically you are a munafiq
we as muslims are supposed to accept whatever is in the Quran and Sunnah and whoever disagrees is not a muslim and sharia is a part of Islam that cannot be disagreed with.
 
. .
Explain and establish. Islam is Sharia or Sharia is just a part of Islam?

sure, this verse of the Quran should be enough for you and if not,well,thats on you if you disagree

“Those who disbelieve in Allah and His apostles and seek to separate Allah from His apostles, and say, ‘We believe in some and disbelieve in some’ and seek to take a way in between”

“—it is they who are truly faithless, and We have prepared for the faithless a humiliating punishment.”

“But those who have faith in Allah and His apostles and make no distinction between any of them—them He will soon give their rewards, and Allah is all-forgiving, all-merciful.” (4: 150 -152)
 
.
sure, this verse of the Quran should be enough for you and if not,well,thats on you if you disagree

“Those who disbelieve in Allah and His apostles and seek to separate Allah from His apostles, and say, ‘We believe in some and disbelieve in some’ and seek to take a way in between”

“—it is they who are truly faithless, and We have prepared for the faithless a humiliating punishment.”

“But those who have faith in Allah and His apostles and make no distinction between any of them—them He will soon give their rewards, and Allah is all-forgiving, all-merciful.” (4: 150 -152)

I am still waiting for an answer .................. a direct answer from you, your understanding when you typed that comment. I believe most of the Muslims can recite the Holy Quran and have tried to understand the simple clear message.

You need to explain what exactly is Sharia.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom