The Story of "Ghazi Submarine"

[wabs]

 

[chindit]

Well India is a country which does not even do third party checks on it's Air Force inventory .. I am sure after allowing control of their Airspace & letting dogs piss on the ashes of Gandhi .. for your they are adverseries !

Your country is the one who is letting USAF drones and aircraft come in unopposed and kill your citizens and So where does the bit about we allowing control of our airspce come in?

Anyway I have proved my point on the Ghazi.

as far as wrong claims are concerned - should I point out thta your Ghazi claimed to have sunk INS Brahmaputra in 1965? and PNS Hangor claimed two frigates. Should I go ahead and call the pN liars?

and if diablo was 20 years old - and it was so bad in condition, then it shouldnt have sailed in the first place. Shame on the Pak Navy admirals / planners for sending it out on such a idiotic and ill concieved plan in the first place (even the Sub Captain shares the blame for it). ultimately so many of your sailors paid for a foolish plan.

 

[must7]

Diablo fought in the 2nd World War?? Please provide a Source. I read that it was constructed during the world war.

Please find here below the history of SS-497 aka Diablo with US navy.

USS Diablo SS-497

Diablo SS-497

A member of the batfish family, common in the West Indies and along the southern coast of the United states.

(SS-479: dp. 1,570; 1. 311'8"; b. 27'4"; dr. 15'3";
s. 20 k.; cpl. 76; a. 1 5", 10 21" tt.; cl. Tench)

Diablo (SS-479) was launched 1 December 1944 by Portsmouth Navy Yard; sponsored by Mrs. V. D. Chapline; and commissioned 31 March 1945, Lieutenant Commander G. G. Matherson in command.

Diablo arrived at Pearl Harbor from New London 21 July 1945. She sailed for her first war patrol 10 August with instructions to stop at Saipan for final orders. With the case fire, her destination was changed to Guam where she arrived 22 August. On the last day of the month she got underway for Pearl Harbor and the east coast arriving at New York 11 October. Except for a visit to Charleston, S.C., in October, she remained at New York until 8 January 1946.

From 15 January 1946 to 27 April 1949 Diablo was based in the Canal Zone participating in fleet exercises and rendering services to surface units in the Caribbean. During 23 August-2 October 1947 she joined Cutlass (SS-478) and Conger (SS-477) for a simulated war patrol down the west coast of South America and around Tierra del Fuegu. The three submarines called at Valparaiso, Chile, in September while homeward bound. Diablo sailed to Key West, Fla., for antisubmarine warfare exercises, from 16 November to 9 December 1947, and operated from New Orleans for the training of naval reservists in March 1948.

Diablo arrived at Norfolk, her new home port, 6 June 1949, and alternated training cruises with duty at the Sonar School at Key West. Her home port became New London in 1952 and she arrived there 17 September to provide training facilities for the Submarine School. From 3 May to 1 June 1954 she was attached to the Operational Development Force at Key West for tests of new weapons and equipment. She participated in Operation "Springboard" in the Caribbean during 21 February 28 March 1955, and continued to alternate service with the Submarine School with antisubmarine warfare and fleet exercises in the Caribbean and off Bermuda, as well as rendering services to the Fleet Sonar School and Operational Development Force at Key West. Between February and April 1959 she cruised through the Panama Canal along the coasts of Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Chile for exercises with South American navies. On 27 May 1960 she entered Philadelphia Naval Shipyard for an overhaul which continued through October 1960. She returned to operational duty during the remainder

 

[must7]

Your country is the one who is letting USAF drones and aircraft come in unopposed and kill your citizens and So where does the bit about we allowing control of our airspce come in?

Anyway I have proved my point on the Ghazi.

as far as wrong claims are concerned - should I point out thta your Ghazi claimed to have sunk INS Brahmaputra in 1965? and PNS Hangor claimed two frigates. Should I go ahead and call the pN liars?

and if diablo was 20 years old - and it was so bad in condition, then it shouldnt have sailed in the first place. Shame on the Pak Navy admirals / planners for sending it out on such a idiotic and ill concieved plan in the first place (even the Sub Captain shares the blame for it). ultimately so many of your sailors paid for a foolish plan.

Firstly please keep your statement of UAV bomb attacks on Pakistan out of this thread. There are many threads where you can write it down. I am not pointing out that Indian girls are making pronography with White goras in India and you should be shame upon. This thread is for Ghazi & naval claims of both countries.

Regarding Ghazi bringing down INS Bhramputra .. well Ghazi might have brought another vessel of IN down & keeping in mind of Indian naval lies they might have kept it to themselves.

Regarding Hangor .. why did it not take out INS Kukri ? So one is accounted for the second one was INS Kirpan. Unfortunately it did not sink after being damaged by Hangor, however it was out of action for the remaining part of the war.

Coming back to PNS Ghazi, it was not a poor plan but a last resort plan wherein an ageing sub was sent out to attack on lone mission of bravery & class. There were no other options available to restrict Indian naval superior quality & numbers. Plus had the military hierachy given Ghazi the go ahead it might have even bombed the naval base.

Again you forgot to reply to the fact that the above 20 .. in fact it was a full 25 year old sub which was able to go inside India's strategic naval assets and stay unnoticed for several days !

This is itself not a small feat to achieve !

 

[ahmeddsid]

Firstly please keep your statement of UAV bomb attacks on Pakistan out of this thread. There are many threads where you can write it down. I am not pointing out that Indian girls are making pronography with White goras in India and you should be shame upon. This thread is for Ghazi & naval claims of both countries.

Regarding Ghazi bringing down INS Bhramputra .. well Ghazi might have brought another vessel of IN down & keeping in mind of Indian naval lies they might have kept it to themselves.

Regarding Hangor .. why did it not take out INS Kukri ? So one is accounted for the second one was INS Kirpan. Unfortunately it did not sink after being damaged by Hangor, however it was out of action for the remaining part of the war.

Coming back to PNS Ghazi, it was not a poor plan but a last resort plan wherein an ageing sub was sent out to attack on lone mission of bravery & class. There were no other options available to restrict Indian naval superior quality & numbers. Plus had the military hierachy given Ghazi the go ahead it might have even bombed the naval base.

Again you forgot to reply to the fact that the above 20 .. in fact it was a full 25 year old sub which was able to go inside India's strategic naval assets and stay unnoticed for several days !

This is itself not a small feat to achieve !

Yes, it is a small feat, becoz the technology back then, especially with the Indian Navy was not that Great!
And please dont bring in nonsenical comments about Indian girls in porno movies coz I can say the same for pakistani girls and even the home grown mujra artistes and dont get me started on pakistani actresses too, coz I am from the movie field! God Speed.

 

[must7]

Yes, it is a small feat, becoz the technology back then, especially with the Indian Navy was not that Great!
And please dont bring in nonsenical comments about Indian girls in porno movies coz I can say the same for pakistani girls and even the home grown mujra artistes and dont get me started on pakistani actresses too, coz I am from the movie field! God Speed.

What India had an operation aircraft carrier & had at least 3 to 1 ratio in the naval warfare in 1971. Plus PN assets were distributed between the two halves of the country.

Regarding the girls .. my comments were not to you but to Chindit ...who mentioned this in the post :-

Your country is the one who is letting USAF drones and aircraft come in unopposed and kill your citizens and So where does the bit about we allowing control of our airspce come in?

but while you did not condemn him but did give absurdities to me, & making false claims about Pakistani women. No Sir, we do not cherish & make movies with the Goras, yes we might even have what you call Mujra's like any place on earth be it India or any other country, but we do not have people who would propogate what is being done in India ! Hence, there is no comparison & no discussion should be made of anything other than GHAZI submarine.

 

[must7]

Yes, it is a small feat, becoz the technology back then, especially with the Indian Navy was not that Great!

What concerns more to me is the manner in which India is involved in making false claims & giving out presitigious military awards to it's personnel for claims which even though later refuted but still these awards have not been retracted .. no wonder my post & concern shared by others even Indian defense analysts too :-

A Brazen Cover-Up That Rewrote Indian Naval History

By Josy Joseph

Sunday, April 16, 2006 01:50 IST

NEW DELHI/MUMBAI: Mistakes committed by naval officers, including the commanding officer (CO) of INS Khukri, led to the sinking of the warship and the death of 200 of its crew during the 1971 war with Pakistan, according to documents with DNA.

The findings overturn official naval claims and published history on the sinking of the Khukri by Pakistani submarine PNS Hangor at the height of the 1971 Indo-Pak war. It also raises uncomfortable questions about numerous gallantry awards given out by the government to many involved in the incident.

DNA has two letters written to President APJ Abdul Kalam by Commander Benoy Bhushan, one of 12 pages and the other of 24, who was directed by the flag officer commanding-in-chief, Western Naval Command, to establish where the Khukri was sunk. The findings remain under wraps till date.

Bhushan confirmed the authenticity of the two letters, and their claims have been substantiated by at least one survivor and other sources.

Though the principal director of naval operations told Bhushan that his report was declassified in early 2005, naval headquarters refused DNA a copy and also failed to respond to a detailed questionnaire sent by DNA.

According to the official version, a Pakistani submarine torpedoed and sank the Khukri on the night of December 9, 1971. It is the single biggest wartime casualty of independent India. There was never a court of inquiry to find out if anyone was responsible for the ship going down.
DNA’s investigation reveals that in their last moments some 250 officers and sailors of the Khukri were abandoned by INS Kirpan, an accompanying naval ship that should have carried out an immediate counterattack.

It also reveals that the navy’s claim that it hunted and sank the Pakistani submarine a few hours later to be false. The Hangor returned to Karachi harbour safely.

Cdr Bhushan, in his letter, says, “The circumstances in which the Khukri was torpedoed and sunk were never disclosed for decades. ... Truth needs to be brought to light to set the record straight and also to learn valuable lessons.”

Bhushan was CO of INS Investigator when he was asked to probe the incident.

The Khukri, in company with another A/S (anti-submarine) ship Kirpan, was torpedoed and sunk without even an engagement with the enemy. Eighteen officers and 176 sailors perished with the Khukri. Both the COs deserved to be punished, but the higher authorities gave them gallantry awards. INS Khukri and INS Kirpan violated every principle of A/S doctrine for hunter killer operations,” Bhushan told DNA.

Bhushan says he was forced to open his mouth after so many years after he accidentally stumbled” upon the official history of the Indian Navy, ‘Transition to Triumph’, published by the historical cell of naval headquarters. “The details of the Khukri sinking and the appended maps stunned me,” he said.

“Higher authorities in the navy during the 1971 war manipulated facts to write a false history of heroism and courage whereas the truth points a glaring finger at the level of training at its lowest ebb, inefficiency, incompetence, dereliction of duty, and erosion of moral and ethical values.”

In his letter to the President, Bhushan has appealed to Kalam to bring “truth to light to expose the persons who have misused their powers to suppress the truth regarding the circumstances in which Khukri was torpedoed and sunk; and to hide blunders committed by themselves (sic).”

DNA investigated Bhushan’s claims with at least one survivor and some others who were privy to the incident and the inquiry.

(Additional reporting in Mumbai by Shweta Karnik and Dharmendra Tiwari)

 

[chindit]

What concerns more to me is the manner in which India is involved in making false claims & giving out presitigious military awards to it's personnel for claims which even though later refuted but still these awards have not been retracted :-

Oh save me, there are a dozen cases like that in Pakistan as well. Where do you want me to start? Name a war and I will tell you about it.

 

[PakmanUSA]

It was a sad event. My father trained on that sub in the US where he met my mother. From what I know he was of those lost on its sinking.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

It was a sad event. My father trained on that sub in the US where he met my mother. From what I know he was of those lost on its sinking.

I am sorry....

 

[must7]

Oh save me, there are a dozen cases like that in Pakistan as well. Where do you want me to start? Name a war and I will tell you about it.

At your service sir, please show us a few high profile as mentioned above in any of the wars.

 

[must7]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PakmanUSA
It was a sad event. My father trained on that sub in the US where he met my mother. From what I know he was of those lost on its sinking.

I am sorry....

PakmanUSA : My Saluate to your Father.

Satishkumar : That was very considerate of you. Thank you.

 

[F.O.X]

It was a sad event. My father trained on that sub in the US where he met my mother. From what I know he was of those lost on its sinking.

Pakman some sacrifices are necessary to win a battle, you see when there is war there will be causalities, & both sides will lost their loved ones, but at the end who wins is the one who have made the Sacrifice for the right cause.
You should be proud, that you are son of a Hero.


Regards
Champ

 

[chindit]

It was a sad event. My father trained on that sub in the US where he met my mother. From what I know he was of those lost on its sinking.

my condolences.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It was a sad event. My father trained on that sub in the US where he met my mother. From what I know he was of those lost on its sinking.

My condolences as well sir.

Your father, along with our other veterans, have done Pakistan proud.