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The Second Indo-Chinese War (2013-2015)

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Well, some people cannot handle the fact that their country lost a war. But not everyone is like that.

Like that fat gin-swiller Churchill said "Those who refused to learn from history are doomed to repeating it"

I try to argue my point here not for their benefit really but out of a inherent dislike for this kind of mental pathos and self-deception. Internet brownie point couldn't interest me less.
 
You're making the same mistake that these Indians are. China wanted to beat some sense into Nehru, not occupy India. China only sent 80,000 troops (a small force by the manpower reliant PLA standards). It was not meant to be an invasion, it was meant to stop Nehru from pursuing his idiotic forward policy and to bring India to the negoitating table.

India and western observers at the time thought it was a full scale invasion only because of the quick success the PLA had against the Indian Army (Delhi was in a panic, assumed it was a full invasion force). After the 7th brigade (the best in the IA at the time) was routed, and 3 brigades cut off/disintegrated, effective resistance ceased on the whole sector. It was an unexpected victory, that caught the PLA war planners by surprise.

When the time came, as PLA had to decided how to exploit this victory, they realize they gotten as much as they could of it and further military action would jeopardize China's political aims, ie further fight could have escalated the situation into a superpower war and make future settlement with India on matter more difficult.
The chinese leadership was no one to 'beat some sense into Nehru' a leader of far greater vision and accomplishment. The chinese army could never have 'occupied india' and they didn't retreat only because they had a limited objective in mind. Their supply lines were chocked and they had prioritize which part to consolidate- which they did.

Fact is 1962 was a joke of a war. India lost because we deserved to lose. Nehru, who came up the ranks of 'non violent resistors' was very frequently heard saying 'lets sack the army'. He had no vision for that arm and belived in taking out resources from them for other development. SO finally our forces ended up with tennis shoes and no eqipment in the mountains- very different from the chinese establishment which had built it's base through the 'barrel of the gun and so fully appreciated what a military machine can achieve.

Nehru was replaced by a group of people far far more savvy than what you guys have seen. You wanna talk of a real war? You sent 80,000 troops in 1962? we took the surrender of 80,000 troops in 1971. Your war history isn't very glorious- you lost to vietnam, that's like India losing to sri lanka. & 80,000 troops is a very small percentage (less than 10%) of India's military force too.
 
Like that fat gin-swiller Churchill said "Those who refused to learn from history are doomed to repeating it"

I try to argue my point here not for their benefit really but out of a inherent dislike for this kind of mental pathos and self-deception. Internet brownie point couldn't interest me less.
You've got a big mouth
 
India also needed Tibet's water resources because India's rapidly increasing population had outgrown its territory so expansion was required.

I might be late, but going All out just because of the above mentioned issue is completely Foolish , Hasnt the Author heard that India recycles the Water and Has the Best Infrastructure Available for Rain water storage and Rain water Harvesting , and Some good Infrastructures to Desalinate the Ocean Water ... There are ideas to Even store water from Flood.... So no matter upon what India Fights china, but certainly not for this...

And Upon China winning the end battle, I quite agree, because in Forums some do win, But the battleground lies in reality not cyberworld
 
I might be late, but going All out just because of the above mentioned issue is completely Foolish , Hasnt the Author heard that India recycles the Water and Has the Best Infrastructure Available for Rain water storage and Rain water Harvesting , and Some good Infrastructures to Desalinate the Ocean Water ... There are ideas to Even store water from Flood.... So no matter upon what India Fights china, but certainly not for this...

And Upon China winning the end battle, I quite agree, because in Forums some do win, But the battleground lies in reality not cyberworld

we can beat you anywhere both in cyberworld and reality, in reality 1962 is a good example
 
we can beat you anywhere both in cyberworld and reality, in reality 1962 is a good example
Then why don't you come down and try. You've been crying all over the internet, so now show some real muscle. 1971 was a good example too.
 
Forget an Indo-Chinese war , even an Indo-Pakistan war is impossible in today's scenario , and even more so in the coming decades . The stakes are simply too high .
 
we can beat you anywhere both in cyberworld and reality, in reality 1962 is a good example

Agreed to that, You did Beat me in this Hard fought debate, I give up.:tup:... Although the End result lies in Your own Username
 
Okay this is great news! So now Indian leadership has given the okay to Indian media to start claiming Chinese troops are in "Indian territory." Next logical move is to prepare to eject these "invaders" by force. We have another forward policy in the works!

Chinese troops enter Indian territory again - The Times of India

Now the PLA and IA forces are in direct contact and probably encircling each other to gain maximum advantage. Chinese are moving in heavy artillery to pound on the heads of the Indians.

These Indians really believe they will be the #1 superpower in Asia! The Indians have forgotten the lesson of 1962. China finally has the opportunity to unleash all its advanced missiles and bombs on New Delhi and watch these little clowns run amok in fear and pain!

Knowing Indian strategic thinking, their next move is to use their "mighty MKI" to patrol the Western sector. China's counter-move will be to intercept them with J-11B. Very soon, I think we will hear about mysterious crashes of MKI due to bad weather.
 
Okay this is great news! So now Indian leadership has given the okay to Indian media to start claiming Chinese troops are in "Indian territory." Next logical move is to prepare to eject these "invaders" by force. We have another forward policy in the works!

Chinese troops enter Indian territory again - The Times of India

You have confused Chinese media with Indian media, Indian media is NOT controlled by GOI, unlike China where its state controlled. On the contrary indian media has caused problem to GOI by giving front page space to all the scams, coruption and price inflation and stuff.


Now the PLA and IA forces are in direct contact and probably encircling each other to gain maximum advantage. Chinese are moving in heavy artillery to pound on the heads of the Indians.

And Indian will sit back right?

These Indians really believe they will be the #1 superpower in Asia! The Indians have forgotten the lesson of 1962. China finally has the opportunity to unleash all its advanced missiles and bombs on New Delhi and watch these little clowns run amok in fear and pain!

Discuss your point civil manner dude. I know your goal is prvoke people here. Behave properly or your posts will be reported.

Knowing Indian strategic thinking, their next move is to use their "mighty MKI" to patrol the Western sector. China's counter-move will be to intercept them with J-11B. Very soon, I think we will hear about mysterious crashes of MKI due to bad weather.

More verbal diarhea by Hong.Wu / Schinese, whatever you are callling your self these days now.
 
Okay this is great news! So now Indian leadership has given the okay to Indian media to start claiming Chinese troops are in "Indian territory." Next logical move is to prepare to eject these "invaders" by force. We have another forward policy in the works!

Chinese troops enter Indian territory again - The Times of India

Now the PLA and IA forces are in direct contact and probably encircling each other to gain maximum advantage. Chinese are moving in heavy artillery to pound on the heads of the Indians.

These Indians really believe they will be the #1 superpower in Asia! The Indians have forgotten the lesson of 1962. China finally has the opportunity to unleash all its advanced missiles and bombs on New Delhi and watch these little clowns run amok in fear and pain!

Knowing Indian strategic thinking, their next move is to use their "mighty MKI" to patrol the Western sector. China's counter-move will be to intercept them with J-11B. Very soon, I think we will hear about mysterious crashes of MKI due to bad weather.

Well,we know u r statements are just to provoke and get Indian members banned,don't worry i won't take ur posts serious,
ur posts has no values..

But ur a good fictional story writer,better try ur luck in china films not here...

BTW are there any Chinese films industries..?
If yes,go try there...
 
China will never attack India as India can attack all Chinese merchant ships in the Indian Ocean going to the malacca strait it is far easy for India to get access quick compared to China given the distance.
 
As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems
Not every country has a propaganda brigade as is the case in China.

conventional war threat. India’s most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by India’s desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China. India also needed Tibet's water resources because India's rapidly increasing population had outgrown its territory so expansion was required.
China is a power full neighbor but the PLA have less conviental threat on Delhi. Pakistan has more of a threat because they share a border with India that isn't all divided by the worlds biggest mountians.
And Indias don't have deep-rooted colonial racism against China. Indians did not learn to hate Chinese because of the British but Chinese certianly did.
Tibet is not a place to live but its water resources are important.
Let me guess you wrote this.? Take some more time writing facts rather than bs fiction.
Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-class, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-class weapons from Russia like the T-90, Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-class weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-17, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of first-class weaponry from both East and West.
Actually the Indian arms purchases are not really high end. But in the region they can be game changers. What you call faulty soviet weapons are very effective under the right leader.
Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy
The US can deal with China via Taiwan/Korea/Pilipenes and Japan. India is not the prime choice! The US is not arming India but rather joining the Russians and Europeans in the Arms market in India.
The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.
Where the fcuk are you getting your imagination from? Weapons that can't be used on Pakistan? I dare not read more.
The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful to handle and eventually Indian Navy might even start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean.
Sersiously? TOO POWERFULL Because they got the gem magical awe inpiring power found in a cave in Kashmir?
The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.
They can't sell missile ICBM technology, and India is researching their own for a credible detterient.
Since the late 2000’s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to strike deep into Tibet with air-launched Brahmos, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.
While missiles seem logical, the distance the the Barhmos missile covers is not the greatest. Likily it will be the PLA that uses surfaced launched BM while the Indian air force drops iron.
By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.
While this is all great the lack of roads where it counts is minimal for both sides. These are major high ways, no where near the border.
MKI was at a serious disadvantage to J-11BS. MKI had late-80’s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BS’s modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of China’s composite materials technology. Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles such as PL-10 were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.
The Su-30MKI like the J-11 both use 1970's tech such as their engines. But ultimatly its the MKI that has the advantage with its EW suite which includes the BARs radar.
Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality
And the Chinese don't rely on Russian engines for their planes to fly?
The J-10B also had an advantage over India’s MMCRA. The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another. But none of the other aircraft had an upper hand over the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S. J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles. As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.
And the Indians would buy what? Less of an aircraft so you can make up a story? Please. Don't get into detials, keep on track with what you know.
China had the numbers advantage. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to India’s 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.
What BS. It costs the same everywhere! Infact buying a Russian Flanker is going to be cheaper that a Chinese knockoff because of the Russians ability to allready make a profit or two.
And no. Factories come to standstill if they are attacked like the Japanese. They can make parts but if the facialities that manufacture the parts for a machine are spread out or single area and are dystroyed the production rate is reduced. The only this China can mass produce in the hundreds is its F-7s.
Finally, PLAAF could engage in information-centric warfare. J-10B and J-11BS work together with HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 as force-multiplier. Indian weapons from Russia, US, France, UK, Israel, etc. simply cannot work as an integrated system. As a result, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. However, they did inflict substantial losses on the PLAAF at a ratio of 4:1 (in favor of China). China lost ~1/6 of the fighters it brought to the theater.
They do work together. One of the lessons i've learnt is that integration is very important. The MKI-Bisons-Tejas-Awacs and ground control radars all work together because of something called a command and control HQ.
The remaining IAF was a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.
okay...
Ill begin with saying this. You are Chinese? You show it well.
Your airwar isn't going to be a pretty story like the one you made up.
Infact its far from.
Whats going to happen is that the PLAAF will have 2 months of decent weather to pull off operations from Tibet after that they will rely on mostly airbases located at the mainland. The Indian side however is the one with the advantage. They have lowaltitudes for take offs and have a lot more fields located closer to the border than the PLA could dream of.
Tibet is not a nice place to start a war in short. High alitudes and bad weather means the PLA's only reliable transportation is the railway.
Its the Indian doctrine that would be dropping bombs btw. The PLA won't send its fighters to drop bombs unless its on the battle ground. They will use artillery or missiles.
With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.

Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased. Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. The highly-advanced Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger but has less firepower and less armor than the heavier Apache.

The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Indian-controlled side had no highways. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger) against helicopters. LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.

Indian army had the excellent M777 light howitzer, and this weapon definitely caused damage to PLA. But the Indians faced the disadvantage that they could not "shoot-and-scoot" like the PLZ-04 since M777 was towed and there was no highway. As a result, India's M777 attrited very fast. Yet India could not crank out replacements because it is purchased not indigenously made.

PLA's biggest advantage is that it could bring up far more numbers using railways. When the Indians began their attack, they thought they enjoyed a 3:1 advantage in numbers. But they did not expect that China had quietly brought up rapid-reaction forces from Lanzhou military region, Chengdu military region and Guangzhou military region. In the end, Indian army was outnumbered 5:1!

Despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Indian army fought bravely and inflicted 2:1 (in favor of China) casualties on PLA. The high quality of the Apache and M777 was a factor. Nonetheless, PLA commanded the upper hand. Waves of PLZ-04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death. PLA suffered ~1/10 casualties.
Highways? That would mean your too far to count. You need to be where the action is, on the border. The Apache are probabily not going to be purchased and neither the Z-10 or Apache are going to crossing the Himilyans with their max alititude and payload.
and those M777 guns can be transported by heles. Thats the idea. The Indian side has a lower atlititude and are much closer to the border in time. They don't always require roads. Which is why india has a large fleet of helecopters.
PLA's biggest advantage is that it could bring up far more numbers using railways. When the Indians began their attack, they thought they enjoyed a 3:1 advantage in numbers. But they did not expect that China had quietly brought up rapid-reaction forces from Lanzhou military region, Chengdu military region and Guangzhou military region. In the end, Indian army was outnumbered 5:1!
You can send 3 million soldiers to Lhasa but your only gonna get 50 thousand to the actual border.
Despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Indian army fought bravely and inflicted 2:1 (in favor of China) casualties on PLA. The high quality of the Apache and M777 was a factor. Nonetheless, PLA commanded the upper hand. Waves of PLZ-04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death. PLA suffered ~1/10 casualties.
Apaches would be useless at that altitude and so would be the Z-10, either because the airfield is 2 fare away or it was too heavy.
Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.

PLA advanced into the “chicken-neck” area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam, for example better water rights.

In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier from both the Chinese side and the Pakistan side in a pincher maneuver. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rose up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir fled the angry mob.

Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.

As India entered darkness, rebellion and communal violence broke out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launched direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore GoI authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.
Wow.
China should not underestimate India. Yes, its indigenous weapons are not a cause for concern, but the weapons India imported in the 2008-2015 time frame is first-class! Sure they will be lesser in quantity and not as well integrated as indigenous Chinese weapons but they are nothing to scoff at.
Its indigenous weapons are a cause for concern. Because like the Arjun, insas the weapons were built keeping indian conditions in mind.
Quantity doesn't help in a war against India and China. Because quantity is limited on the battlefield. Quality will count.
It is precisely because India has upgraded from second-class weapons to first-class weapons since 2008 that India has started styling itself a "superpower." India is fundamentally an expansionist state and quite dangerous.
India is replacing its old Soviet warbirds and tanks.
China is the biggest expansionist state in Asia.
China is already reacting to India's hostile policy. Chinese defense minister recently said "Chinese military must be self-reliant." This is reminding India that its arms purchases will not help it defeat China and assert itself as the Asian superpower.
The difference is both countries import arms. While you maynot like it but the Chinese still use Russians parts in the fighter aircraft.
India doesn't need to assert itself. Japan is an asian super-power. Not becuase it has a very large military, but because they provide softloans to nations like China. Approximilty 2 billion every year.
The Second Indo-Chinese War will be decided by fighter aircraft, artillery and combat helicopters. This is why the US is selling these specific items to India! The weapons offered by the US are comparable to the best that China can field indigenously (J-10B, PLZ-04 and Z-10A), making China's industrial advantage over India not decisive.
Actually the US is trying to make money. Russian or European purchases can also be effective. Its not like the US is providing these things with a discount. The next Indo-Sino clash will be dicided by India as to where it happens. Because like it or not. The Tibetan border is closer to India than it is to China. Fighter jets from China will be mostly useless. Because of the altitude and time issues. The PLA will stock up and relay on ground based weapons, and i doubt the PLA will try to attack.

The CCP and PLA have had more than 40 years to try and grab what it cliams as chinese land. And yet all of this? Its because they never had the capability to keep that land. Simple as that.
And why do you think China arms Pakistan with even missiles and nukes? Because the Pakistani's can do a better job at fighting a war with India than the PLA every could, unless it turns nueclear.
 
^^ i saw Andrew Zimmern's episode of when he was in Bejing where he went to a restaraunt that specialised in testicles of various animals including that of a dog. You guys won't bite but say you will. That is called mad Dog. When you get pissed Foam will appear. Then you will try to bite. Then Animal control comes in and neuters you. And for your info the bark is more pyshcological than bite.Wounds heal, but when you are afraid you do not know what to do. So go ahead bite..we have bandages.
 
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