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The Role of Pakistan Army in National Development

Army is doing very bad in nation building it is not their job but sadly they have to do it. I wonder why politicians never do anything like this. I mean they have been in power from time to time in Pakistan but why did they missed their chance and refused to develop Pakistan?
Just a question nothing more.
 
There's no issue with the army being involved different sectors but there's an issue when it does so incompetently and we don't see satisfactory results.
who said that ??
So ARMY breaking its own oath is fine? and involving in ploticals and eleictrol process is ok ?

before that no one had a problem with army involvement.
Because AMRY had kept a dramatic image of itself and just because it was so in the past doesn't mean it should continue to be ?

Youre literally exhibiting the same paralysed mentality that people displayed as Islam came
 
who said that ??
So ARMY breaking its own oath is fine? and involving in ploticals and eleictrol process is ok ?
Yes, if it allows for more stability and better results then 100%, why would you restrict your actions to words on a paper that can be changed at will anyway?

Much of the reason why the legislative and political procedures are not respected in Pakistan is because they don't belong to Pakistan and have never had respect or value by the people itself. It's completely foreign to them. They copied and pasted the model from other countries, changed a few words, and magically think people will respect it and give it value. This never happened for obvious reasons.

Just to give you an example, the Pashtuns have a jirga system led by clan leaders, that's the model that they natively respect and value, when that is breached, they actually care and speak against that action. This is because it is a model that has value as the natives respect and buy-into it. And that's exactly why it works so well.

This isn't the case for all these other imported stuff like democracy, human-rights, LGBT rights rubbish, it never had any respect and that's why people always turned the cheek until something they actually respected was breached, which was PTI/Imran Khan.
 
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I wonder why politicians never do anything like this. I mean they have been in power from time to time in Pakistan but why did they missed their chance and refused to develop Pakistan?
Just a question nothing more.

There was a time:







.. and I can add much more ..........
 
Yes, if it allows for more stability and better results then 100%,
No it doesnt - so you are ok with people breaking their OATH ?? and breaking the Constitution?

How convenient while you live and breath i a country that follows unwritten constitution - you are enjoying their fruits but wouldnt want the same for Pakistan

Much of the reason why the legislative and political procedures are not respected in Pakistan is because they don't belong to Pakistan and have never had respect or value by the people itself. It's completely foreign to them. They copied and pasted the model from other countries, changed a few words, and magically think people will respect it and give it value.
75 years is more than long enough time - had Amry not broken its OATH or tortured Fatimah Jinnah called bich and then creeped into Electoral process to benefit them at the state of Pakistan - we would have very good flourishing Political system with good education

respected was breached, which was PTI/Imran Khan.
The only reason why this has happened is because the ARMY created this image itself of Protector of people and free of corruption - when Khan came it was all good hope that since the 90s We now have better hope and system but not be as ARMY the goons of the goons and the duffers will be duffers - they had him removed just because he exercises his right that is enshrined in constitution and then pig of the corrupters tola was brought in and their cases were slashed
 
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There was a time:







.. and I can add much more ..........

Okay you have a valid point there. So what do you think military did wrong economically that resulted so bad for the country? Or for that sake if you like to put blame on PDM govt then what were their wrong policies that resulted in this?
 
this.
how or why do they have this authority?
and if they take the decisions, how are we making them accountable?
for example - for all the mess we are in, we could oust the govt, but how do we oust the army? they have the guns, the goons the gun powder and the gumption.

if a govt does something wrong, we have a redressal in supreme court. if the court does something wrong, we can go to the media and make their life hell.
if all these are contained, who will bell the cat?

have you seen how one tiny group of people are getting richer and richer, literal songs being sung in their name while entire groups of populations are being pushed into the abyss?

this is the development we have got so far. we dont want it. i dont want the army to be part of any development. what are their credentials for the same?
are they PhDs in agriculture?
are they PhDs in aerospace?
are they economists?

I want the army to protect the frontiers of Pakistan.
and take action when missiles from across the border fall into our population areas.

Why is this such a difficult concept for some people here?
@SaadH @Mirzali Khan @Sugarcane

He has been foot soldier of same mafia, hence have gone through brain washing. This log can't comprehend simple things and basic rules of civil society, that's reason we are have been in mess since partition.
 
Okay you have a valid point there. So what do you think military did wrong economically that resulted so bad for the country? Or for that sake if you like to put blame on PDM govt then what were their wrong policies that resulted in this?
This is a fundamental question.

The military for a start has continually interfered with growth of institutions. The rule of law and the institutions enforcing law have been continually subsided to put it mildly.

This fundamental issue impacts political stability, business investments, rule of law, capacity for change through human capital, economic growth. Suffice to say this exacerbates cronyism, feudalism, corruption.

The Pakistan you see today is a result of multiple bad decisions over decades.

I would simply say to the institutions that overarches every other institution, and needs to take major responsibility of Pakistan’s **** up, that course correct.

Withdraw from all aspects of governance and serve yourself to accountability.
 
but they aren’t going anywhere, never.
As I said, even Pharaoh believed that he's not going anywhere, the cheap of company isn't even an ant compare to him.

The defense of the country lies in their hands

It's unfortunate that defense of the country in hands of duffers, that's why we have lost Eastern part, Siachen, couldn't get rest of J&K in 7+ decades, their misadventure caused war in 65, lost precious lives in Kargil. Suffering terrorism at home by their propped proxies and stupid policies.

and thus you are breathing an air of freedom
You aren't even good at making jokes, what air of freedom? I am able to write my thoughts because I am not in open air prison of fascist and rouge militia, otherwise I would haven been abducted or put in jail like thousands others.


otherwise an Indian occupation by breaking up the country is always on the cards.
Another scam of company to justify their leaching of budget and national resources, Policies of duffers led the loss of Eastern wing, unrest in Baluchistan, and now almost all over the country. India have nothing to do with it.

Since you don’t like PA and there are unlikely chances that Indian nefarious designs will succeed so migrate to India for sake of your health.
Spoken like true brain washed Saffron chaddies of Bharat, they also tells everyone who doesn't agree with their ideology to go to Pakistan. Why not company (remains of British Raj) move to their masters, after all they have no role in Freedom movement as they were loyal servants of Raj, would have opened up fire on public had Raj not agreed to do partition.
 
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The economy was sH!t in Imran Khan's term and would've been just as bad if he stayed.

No it wasn’t, we had growth and much less inflation during his term.

The Air Force flew in Ishaq Dar and he was allowed to wreck everything even though he was never elected.

Army is doing very bad in nation building it is not their job but sadly they have to do it. I wonder why politicians never do anything like this. I mean they have been in power from time to time in Pakistan but why did they missed their chance and refused to develop Pakistan?
Just a question nothing more.

Who put in Ishaq Dar?

That answer to that question would solve everything lol
 
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The authority has been with civilian cadre too and the results were dismal. Cursing, insulting, abusing, showing frustration etc is very different than holding someone accountable. No one is holding anyone accountable, it’s all just frustration showing everywhere. Even if accountability is to be held, there have to certain realistic measures and metrics set for that but for that the whole system needs to be revamped. For revamping, the public needs to get off online platform and start taking practical steps which are meaningful. Basically, get off PDF, try making a change in the society which has favourable outcomes for you.

The politicians, ministers, govt officers, military, bankers etc are a product of the society. They went through a system and thus given authority to make decisions for Pakistan. Nobody gives 2 effs to you ranting online. If you care so much about Pakistan, did you try to get into the system somehow to make a difference ? Nah, you are sitting on the sidelines and jumping like a kangaroo because things aren’t going the way you want. Let’s say you did reach an important post in the system, what would be your steps then ? How would you start changing the system? I guess it’s meaning less to ask these questions coz you are just 1 out of millions of Pakistanis and you are just like them -unwilling to be more than an arm chair analyst who makes zero dent in real life circumstances affecting Pakistan.

Army has expertise in a lot of sectors, not all. There are PHDs in different domains as army allows further education in national and foreign institutes, so the FA pass BS actually bites the dust. Army holds its control over security sensitive departments and projects, deputes its personnel where required which maybe due to lack of funds, resources and equipment in the counterpart civil domain and also provides support and back up in case Govt wants it.

If the civil sector was non corrupt to start with, army wouldn’t have bothered taking notice and then entering into domains which were not required. Army is the sole fully functioning institution of the country. Its functions continue even when all else starts falling apart around it.
you make it sound as if the army is some messiah that is taking over the role of the govt, the cadre and the politicians because of their enormous love for pakistan and their enormous sense of patriotism.
how come all these people settle in the west or saudi then?
how come they take so much money in salaries and pension for their generous help?
how come they live in veritable castles while the rest are pushed to penury.

I am sorry, the more you want us to be grateful to this bunch, the more frustrating it is. this is an army - read it out loud an army which has absolutely no accountability.

what if they screw up? are they going to be thrown out after elections every 5 years? - No

again - who gave them the authority to govern pakistan? is it in the constitution?

Army is doing very bad in nation building it is not their job but sadly they have to do it. I wonder why politicians never do anything like this. I mean they have been in power from time to time in Pakistan but why did they missed their chance and refused to develop Pakistan?
Just a question nothing more.
yeah. the poor army folks have to do the job. and they have to painfully live in DHAs while they actually want to be at the borders. why cant normal people do this? its just so much work for the army - to get pensions and jobs being in top positions of literally every govt institution - the army doesnt want to do it - but it has to. for the sake of the gullible pakistan civilians.
 
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This is a fundamental question.

The military for a start has continually interfered with growth of institutions. The rule of law and the institutions enforcing law have been continually subsided to put it mildly.
I asked a very simple question what policies of military made this situation in the country. which you failed to answer. Your answer was with wrapping it in circles the ousting of IK. Trust me I am a totally different breed and just discuss with me on policies. if you try to walk the path of military interference in politics as a reason I have valid enough answer for that which will destroy the political narrative.
This fundamental issue impacts political stability, business investments, rule of law, capacity for change through human capital, economic growth. Suffice to say this exacerbates cronyism, feudalism, corruption.
either elaborate the blame where it is due or stop passing general propaganda of decades.
The Pakistan you see today is a result of multiple bad decisions over decades.
decisions of who? politicians or military and what decisions?
I would simply say to the institutions that overarches every other institution, and needs to take major responsibility of Pakistan’s **** up, that course correct.

Withdraw from all aspects of governance and serve yourself to accountability.
I will assume this statement as some thought in the back of your head without defining any credible policy responsible for your labeled results.
 
There's no issue with the army being involved different sectors but there's an issue when it does so incompetently and we don't see satisfactory results.

The whole anger right now is about their pseudo-God Imran Khan, before that no one had a problem with army involvement.

But honestly there needs to be a structural overhaul, stricter vetting process, and much higher quality educational institutions because the current crop clearly is not doing a good enough job.


The thing is, it hasn't even gone from strength to strength, it's recording losses and imposing a harmful market monopoly that prevents competition and innovation... completely preventing any meaningful growth.
Army should be called when required, but here the best equipment, best trained resources, and leadership skills lie within army. A civilian counterpart is non existent, not even a political party or a department that can stand on its own and overshadow army in various disciplines.

It’s not the guns or the tanks which make army the strongest entity, there is no martial law so no use of human resource even when there is plenty within army, then what is it ? If it’s the intelligence setup then civilian intel setup is also there and it’s very active.

Imran khan is just another hypocrite our system has produced. He knew he was brought in by rigging but he remained quiet on the issue and kept praising army and Bajwa throughout his tenure. The day he lost power, he started speaking against to what he was party to before - in bed with Army. And that’s where the problem lies. The man that Pakistani public considers honest is actually a hypocrite.

Structural overhaul ? You need a public mentality overhaul. An education system overhaul. A cultural overhaul. The upbringing of kids is an important factor in our educational system. These kids will then join government, military, banking, civil services, politics etc but unless the kids go through a certain level of transformation and then stand up to bring those changes into the system wherever they are serving, the system will never change. Don’t expect 40, 50, 60 years old to abandon their ways and thinking.

But then those who want to change something in their lives, they take steps for that, they don’t whinge online on forums and take out frustrations. They make their lives meaningful through practical steps. Change is never easy.

Look at different departments in Pakistan. PIA, railways, wapda, post office etc. The military has a counterpart to all these using resources like railways or a dedicated system of its own. Let’s talk about railways which is a failing services industry, but when military needs, they plan out routes, number of bogeys, timings, cargo loading of equipment themselves and use the railway lines. Similarly, communications like NTC or SCO. For road convoys and logistics, military uses NLC, for heavy or road construction it’s FWO. Even then military had own S&T units of hundreds of trucks and own engineer units having more specialised equipment than FWO.

Military thinks it looks after the country and saves the country from internal and external threats while politicians are considered unpatriotic and corrupt. The politicians think otherwise of the military in terms of perks and facilities. The bureaucracy thinks they handle all the affairs of the country and have to survive in between the tussle of army and political parties. The judiciary thinks it should govern everything on basis of laws but even a common man doesn’t want to obey law in Pakistan.

It’s the corruption of civilian sector that military stands so strong today and yes military cannot handle everything in Pakistan even if it tries to since there’s so much military can do. At the end of the day, if Pakistan collapses, which actually it won’t, it will be military which be the last straw holding it together.

Today if military fails, Pakistan will break into pieces. No government, no other department can hold Pakistan together. On top of that this nuclear capability is becoming more of a burden and liability than a blessing to save Pakistan in an event of war. The enemy doesn’t want a conventional war.

I actually laugh at those who have made their livelihood and lifestyle out of blaming military.

As an example, Pakistan is weak in R&D and that is where the universities need to take initiative. The consortium of local universities can produce quality engineers and scientists with resources to delve deep into different domains of R&D along with industry setup. There is no blockage to that.

Similarly, the civilian private hospitals are much ahead of CMH and MH in many domains. One reason is because military doctors see and check repetitive cases daily related to wounds etc. civilian setup sees much more complicated cases and the military doctors don’t get that exposure to a high level unless private practice flourishes. In any case private hospitals are on par or better than military hospitals but even then better medical expertise are sought overseas. Shame on Medical research in Pakistan then, military didn’t give orders to stop it.

you make it sound as if the army is some messiah that is taking over the role of the govt, the cadre and the politicians because of their enormous love for pakistan and their enormous sense of patriotism.
how come all these people settle in the west or saudi then?
how come they take so much money in salaries and pension for their generous help?
how come they live in veritable castles while the rest are pushed to penury.

I am sorry, the more you want us to be grateful to this bunch, the more frustrating it is. this is an army - read it out loud an army which has absolutely no accountability.

what if they screw up? are they going to be thrown out after elections every 5 years? - No

again - who gave them the authority to govern pakistan? is it in the constitution?


yeah. the poor army folks have to do the job. and they have to painfully live in DHAs while they actually want to be at the borders. why cant normal people do this? its just so much work for the army - to get pensions and jobs being in top positions of literally every govt institution - the army doesnt want to do it - but it has to. for the sake of the gullible pakistan civilians.
Don’t be grateful - be thankless but do take some realistic strips for betterment of Pakistan. The army will do what it can, you do what you can.

As I said, even Pharaoh believed that he's not going anywhere, the cheap of company isn't even an ant compare to him.



It's unfortunate that defense of the country in hands of duffers, that's why we have lost Eastern part, Siachen, couldn't get rest of J&K in 7+ decades, their misadventure caused war in 65, lost precious lives in Kargil. Suffering terrorism at home by their propped proxies and stupid policies.


You aren't even good at making jokes, what air of freedom? I am able to write my thoughts because I am not in open air prison of fascist and rouge militia, otherwise I would haven been abducted or put in jail like thousands others.



Another scam of company to justify their leaching of budget and national resources, Policies of duffers led the loss of Eastern wing, unrest in Baluchistan, and now almost all over the country. India have nothing to do with it.


Spoken like true brain washed Saffron chaddies of Bharat, they also tells everyone who doesn't agree with their ideology to go to Pakistan. Why not company (remains of British Raj) move to their masters, after all they have no role in Freedom movement as they were loyal servants of Raj, would have opened up fire on public had Raj not agreed to do partition.
If you want a change then make a change by realistic practical steps. Blaming army will get you nowhere. U can blame army all day all night and even in all your breaths but at the end of the day, you are just a headless chicken who will blab out hatred repeatedly.

Get out there and put ur money where your mouth is.
 
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