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The Risks of Pakistan's Sea-Based Nuclear Weapons

Seems to be a good article but the authors missed one known issue: the deadly record of Pakistan Navy ships destroyed through mis-handling or malfunction of their own weapon systems. Bad enough when a submarine is lost with its crew due to a faulty conventional torpedo but if it happened in a port with a nuclear weapons system - which the authors point out are unlikely to be equipped with the safeguards Pakistani Army systems have - then....
 
Seems to be a good article but the authors missed one known issue: the deadly record of Pakistan Navy ships destroyed through mis-handling or malfunction of their own weapon systems. Bad enough when a submarine is lost with its crew due to a faulty conventional torpedo but if it happened in a port with a nuclear weapons system - which the authors point out are unlikely to be equipped with the safeguards Pakistani Army systems have - then....

Which Pakistan Navy platform with potential nuclear capability you are pointing to?

You are not confusing with this are you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Sindhurakshak_(S63)
 
How old are you kid? There are reasons why India cant make it.
When people call someone kid, that means they are desperate and pissed off.:lol:
I'm old enough to burst the bubble of some wanna be smartasses.
Keep on ranting, your lack of knowledge about escalation ladder is quite assuming. MOAB is equivalent of TNW in destruction, only it is conventional. Barren waste land? HA!
If you can't take facts. Keep climbing those escalation ladders. Or do better face saving than calling others kids and pretending to be Newton. Did MOAB leave any radiation fallout? Go read and understand what follows a Nuclear explosion.
Get your head checked sunshine. Its not us who are going on suicidal path, have hallucinations of waging limited war with India under this false bravado of cold start. Its funny how Pakistan developed TNWs in response to Indian stupidity which according to Indian goons will allow India to wage war with Pakistan without crossing the nuclear threshold. I dont have to give you history lessons and chronology of events here do I?

Use google mate, TNWs are always classed as battlefield weapons, they are NOT strategic in nature. The whole idea behind them is to neutralize enemy forces, not its population.

Pak developed a TNW based on India's paper strategy. Are they that gullible? I don't think so, may be that's what the masses (people like you) believe.
Use google mate, TNWs are always classed as battlefield weapons, they are NOT strategic in nature. The whole idea behind them is to neutralize enemy forces, not its population.
Google is your friend. If it's available, go read what are Strategic weapons.

On what world Strategic weapons do not include a thermo-nuclear weapon.
Indian government also believe that it can wage a limited war with Pakistan (cold start) without crossing the nuclear threshold. Do you believe such suicidal bunch? Considering Pakistan follow first strike doctrine where it will use overwhelming nuke attack to destroy the Indian ability to wage war against Pakistan, that was in the pre-TNWs era. Nothing has change, infact it actually raised the nuke threshold of Pakistan where now we can enjoy the tactical deployments without having to cross the strategic threshold. Indian rants are irrelevant.

Pakistan says the existence of cold start more than India. It's a paper strategy, not yet materialized as of now.
Whatever India is planning, will not be readily available on internet. So, you can speculate this and that.

If Indian forces cross border, that's a big if.

When India crosses border, (which it won't do), Pakistan can use any weapons to neutralize the threat. But when you use the TNW in Indian soil or within Indian LOC against Indian soldiers, whatever be the circumstances, it will attract a nuclear retaliation.
 
When people call someone kid, that means they are desperate and pissed off.:lol:
I'm old enough to burst the bubble of some wanna be smartasses.

Only thing you are bursting is your own ***.


If you can't take facts. Keep climbing those escalation ladders. Or do better face saving than calling others kids and pretending to be Newton. Did MOAB leave any radiation fallout? Go read and understand what follows a Nuclear explosion.

I am educating you how it all works. Thats how war gaming is done, based on escalation ladder. Obviously you empty bravdo wont understand these matters, so I will leave at it.

Radiation fall out is minimal. Its all localized destruction with sub kilo ton blast. Hell, even tanks use DU shells these days, as we saw in gulf war and they also have certain environmental impact. But you cannot compare this with city busting strategic nukes.



Pak developed a TNW based on India's paper strategy. Are they that gullible? I don't think so, may be that's what the masses (people like you) believe.

https://thewire.in/101586/cold-start-pakistan-doctrine/

Whos is gullible? Not Pakistan not Bipin Rawat, but that would be you!! Pakistan prepare and posture to the capabilities and intentions of the enemy.

Google is your friend. If it's available, go read what are Strategic weapons.

On what world Strategic weapons do not include a thermo-nuclear weapon.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_nuclear_weapon

A tactical nuclear weapon (TNW) or non-strategic nuclear weapon[1] is a nuclear weapon which is designed to be used on a battlefield.



In other words, only limited to be used against enemy forces, not against its population. You lot should be thanking us that by developing TNWs we are expressing our intentions to spare your population centers.


Pakistan says the existence of cold start more than India. It's a paper strategy, not yet materialized as of now.
Whatever India is planning, will not be readily available on internet. So, you can speculate this and that.

If Indian forces cross border, that's a big if.

When India crosses border, (which it won't do), Pakistan can use any weapons to neutralize the threat. But when you use the TNW in Indian soil or within Indian LOC against Indian soldiers, whatever be the circumstances, it will attract a nuclear retaliation.


Read above about cold start. As for what India is doing, we know what is cooking just next door and we can smell it. Dont you worry about that, we got our own eyes and ears and we can make our own intellegent judgement.

We are not the ones who are proposing to start a limited war. For us, nothing is limited, if India start something, we will finish it on our own terms. The act of setting a foot inside Pakistani soil is an act of war will warrant full reponse from Pakistan. TNWs not only provide us the easy and cost effective way not only to stop/preempt any attempt to wage a limited war (defensive mode) but punish India (military only), in the aftermath for exhibiting the audacity (offensive mode). We have got all areas of the nuclear spectrum covered, from sub kilo ton to city busting warheads.
 
Seems to be a good article but the authors missed one known issue: the deadly record of Pakistan Navy ships destroyed through mis-handling or malfunction of their own weapon systems. Bad enough when a submarine is lost with its crew due to a faulty conventional torpedo but if it happened in a port with a nuclear weapons system - which the authors point out are unlikely to be equipped with the safeguards Pakistani Army systems have - then....
Really???
 
Seems to be a good article but the authors missed one known issue: the deadly record of Pakistan Navy ships destroyed through mis-handling or malfunction of their own weapon systems. Bad enough when a submarine is lost with its crew due to a faulty conventional torpedo but if it happened in a port with a nuclear weapons system - which the authors point out are unlikely to be equipped with the safeguards Pakistani Army systems have - then....

World history is full of any failure that resulted to learn and success so past taught lessons. There is also history where whole Weapons are missing on an inbound flight to Z but lost between X to Y. Lot of ifs wouldn't let any nation proceed with progress and our safety is acknowledged.
 
Radiation fall out is minimal. Its all localized destruction with sub kilo ton blast. Hell, even tanks use DU shells these days, as we saw in gulf war and they also have certain environmental impact. But you cannot compare this with city busting strategic nukes.

One simple question you didn't answer is, have anyone tested a tactical nuclear weapon, despite having numerous wars. It's not like a tank shell exploding with environmental impact for two or three years. The effects of nuke will be there for thousands of years. Considering the half life of a thermo nuclear bomb is at least 20k years. That's one reason why no country uses even tactical nuclear weapons. Don't be stupid to think it's like using a C-4 or TNT to kill a hundred people.
https://thewire.in/101586/cold-start-pakistan-doctrine/

Whos is gullible? Not Pakistan not Bipin Rawat, but that would be you!! Pakistan prepare and posture to the capabilities and intentions of the enemy.
The gullible bunch are the one's who believe in whatever the general shares with public media as a military strategy against enemy.

Congratulations.
Read above about cold start. As for what India is doing, we know what is cooking just next door and we can smell it. Dont you worry about that, we got our own eyes and ears and we can make our own intellegent judgement.

We are not the ones who are proposing to start a limited war. For us, nothing is limited, if India start something, we will finish it on our own terms. The act of setting a foot inside Pakistani soil is an act of war will warrant full reponse from Pakistan. TNWs not only provide us the easy and cost effective way not only to stop/preempt any attempt to wage a limited war (defensive mode) but punish India (military only), in the aftermath for exhibiting the audacity (offensive mode). We have got all areas of the nuclear spectrum covered, from sub kilo ton to city busting warheads.
The history teaches otherwise. We were not the one 'ready to use nukes'. It was Pakistan who got soft hands. But fortunately, didn't do anything stupid, else we would be long dead before having this conversation.

That's the top leadership of Pakistan for you. Now imagine, the tactical nuclear weapons if ever deployed by Pakistan, for border troops.

Your scenario is based on paper strategy to strike inside Pak. Stepping inside Pakistan, if ever happens, will not be an overt operation. My scenario is based on wars.
 
well india obtained nuclear weapons in 1970's first.

if anything, india start nuclearizing south asia.

Pakistan only obtained nuclear weapons because india was a nuclear threat.
it was a nuclear test of non military standard in 1970.
Pakistan Made its first weapon in 1983-84.
 
One simple question you didn't answer is, have anyone tested a tactical nuclear weapon, despite having numerous wars. It's not like a tank shell exploding with environmental impact for two or three years. The effects of nuke will be there for thousands of years. Considering the half life of a thermo nuclear bomb is at least 20k years. That's one reason why no country uses even tactical nuclear weapons. Don't be stupid to think it's like using a C-4 or TNT to kill a hundred people.

You are mistaking the city busting bombs with sub kilo ton tactical bombs. Destruction is localized and very much controlled. And that is the beauty of tactical nukes. Nobody has used, atleast acknowledged (though there are reports of them being used in greater ME conflict), just like no one used thermo nuclear weapons.


The gullible bunch are the one's who believe in whatever the general shares with public media as a military strategy against enemy.

Congratulations.

So you are saying your military is run by bunch of idiots? I would agree though, that bullshit Dhaona is a prime example.


The history teaches otherwise. We were not the one 'ready to use nukes'. It was Pakistan who got soft hands. But fortunately, didn't do anything stupid, else we would be long dead before having this conversation.

That's the top leadership of Pakistan for you. Now imagine, the tactical nuclear weapons if ever deployed by Pakistan, for border troops.

Your scenario is based on paper strategy to strike inside Pak. Stepping inside Pakistan, if ever happens, will not be an overt operation. My scenario is based on wars.

You are the ones who brought the nuclear dimension into this region, rest is just academic non sense. Who use nuke first or second doesnt matter much into the real war time scenario.

Top leadership? May I remind you what your bullshit Dhoana uttered recently? We are not talking about politicians here, they talk BS all the times, but a top serving Indian military professional. Striking Pakistan nuclear facilities? Who in right frame of mind would want to do that, let alone someone who is a top Indian military leader.

I know in your personal capacity, you wont believe that the cold start doctrine exist, but it has been known for many years and Indian intentions in this regard. Pakistan can only prepare to beat what is infront of it.
 
You are mistaking the city busting bombs with sub kilo ton tactical bombs. Destruction is localized and very much controlled. And that is the beauty of tactical nukes. Nobody has used, atleast acknowledged (though there are reports of them being used in greater ME conflict), just like no one used thermo nuclear weapons.
Khanji, I'm not mistaken by the name thermo nuclear bomb. You sound like you are talking about a nuclear bullet. But in reality, it's 10000 KT TNT equivalent. And that's powerful than MOAB. It's simply counted as a nuke.

So you are saying your military is run by bunch of idiots? I would agree though, that bullshit Dhaona is a prime example.
If military was run by powerful minds, why would anyone need politicians?
Most of the countries have a command structure to order nuclear strike. Hope you have seen the Nuclear football, the US pres carry around. Similar command structure is followed by most of the countries, although it may not involve a remote deployment system.

US knows the risk of TNW. That's why they removed them. Future of the country in the hands of few men with guns who are taught to kill, than be diplomatic. Your country will be the only nuclear power with military holding the nuclear command (with TNW)

You are the ones who brought the nuclear dimension into this region, rest is just academic non sense. Who use nuke first or second doesnt matter much into the real war time scenario.


I know in your personal capacity, you wont believe that the cold start doctrine exist, but it has been known for many years and Indian intentions in this regard. Pakistan can only prepare to beat what is infront of it.
India do not need a Nuke to counter Pakistan, although it played well on strategic front. By simla agreement we were pretty much within our comfort zone. While, we had a war with China and there was no agreement signed. With possibility of another invasion. Although, the news was directed at Pakistan.

I'm not a military man, but the basics are. Never detail one's military strategy to the enemy country. The cold start doctrine was a news fare. Which was caught up by Pakistan and starts working it's way up on it. While there was time when, all the time the questions from Jurno at mil personnel were about CSD. many said it exists while some said it doesn't. But every time, you heard what the generals say, you believed them.
If cold start was all about limited war, then we already had Kargil.

Even the armchair economist would know, if Indian army crosses the LOC with tanks and planes, it's done deal for a war. That's why, despite provocation India didn't cross LOC during Kargil.
Top leadership? May I remind you what your bullshit Dhoana uttered recently? We are not talking about politicians here, they talk BS all the times, but a top serving Indian military professional. Striking Pakistan nuclear facilities? Who in right frame of mind would want to do that, let alone someone who is a top Indian military leader.
See, that's the problem when you live in a country run by mil.

By the comment, officer only meant that, India has the capability to strike nuclear facilities inside Pakistan. He didn't say, we are going to attack them. May be there are some underlying reasons behind his comments. Who knows. Either way, any possibility of attack on Pakistan will be decided by the political leadership. (Wish of the people) not by the military.
 
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I am not sure about MAD. First because India is a huge country, second there is ABM system in place and is improving every year. May be the ABM can become perfect or near perfect in next 20 years. I guess in case of a Pakistani nuclear strike, most likely, India will use Pakistan's lack of dept, and capture Pakistani territory as major centers of Pakistan are just across the border as a compensation for the losses it incurred in the nuclear attack.

It is much much easier than you think.

A couple of strikes on Ganges and Bhramaputra.

NO ONE will survive for decades to come.
 
I am not sure about MAD. First because India is a huge country, second there is ABM system in place and is improving every year. May be the ABM can become perfect or near perfect in next 20 years. I guess in case of a Pakistani nuclear strike, most likely, India will use Pakistan's lack of dept, and capture Pakistani territory as major centers of Pakistan are just across the border as a compensation for the losses it incurred in the nuclear attack.
lol, huge country i mean only a dozen of MRV aim missles cant target over 70-80 cities..pakistan has over 200 nukes

nukes will only come if india plays the situation like 1971, i.e use a natural disastar or a civil war/political instability as a cover for complete aggression(though 1971 cannot be duplicated as numerical superiority was 1:10)

its unlikely india can capture any cities in conventional war, they simply need more fire power(evident from 2002) or kargil

ABM system of USA which have dozens of satelite, land base systems and sensors cannot replicate a sucessa nd we talkign about primitive indian system...really!!!?
 
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