The Quran learning made mandatory for university students in Punjab

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I will read up on it.



I see.



OK.



Then that is more or less a long term goal.

OK, logging-off now.

Bi iznillah.

Totally agree with this!

Parents spend thousands of rupees per year to teach children Quran but zero focus on translation.

Younger generation needs to understand Quran. Plain and simple. Just translation alone is a very good start to put many on the straight path. Reading Quran with translation alone will make a huge difference for the students.

A lot of firqay created nonsense will be nullified as well. Brelvi and Deobandi firqay are going to freak out soon enough.

Government should make it a law that all Quran in mosques and madrassahs should be with translation! All without should be removed.

Exactly, learning translation of the Holy Quran would erase our sectarian problems and eliminate the hold of charlatans. Everyone's Islamic credentials will be questioned, including mafias and judges. Think about the monumental change in society accountability will bring.

Part of the success of Ertugrul is because it presents the Islamic mindset which Pakistani media has willfully tried to lock out from the medium.

Imagine if our society became literate in Quran, Ahadith, Shairi, and Fiqh. What an impressive society that will be. It will push our people to keep bettering themselves.

Demand for change will come from the bottom majority of Pakistanis and it will have to be enforced.

Even social change is possible by emulating and adapting some social changes brought by Rasulullah, Khulafa Rashida, and Muslim historic rulers and personalities.

For example, Hazrat Omar bin Al Khattab RA initiated land reform in the nascent Islamic state where land became the property of the state and was distributed based on need and not familial ties. Most of all, land could not be inherited. You may interested in this @jamahir

 

[Verve]

Bi iznillah.



Exactly, learning translation of the Holy Quran would erase our sectarian problems and eliminate the hold of charlatans. Everyone's Islamic credentials will be questioned, including mafias and judges. Think about the monumental change in society accountability will bring.

Part of the success of Ertugrul is because it presents the Islamic mindset which Pakistani media has willfully tried to lock out from the medium.

Imagine if our society became literate in Quran, Ahadith, Shairi, and Fiqh. What an impressive society that will be. It will push our people to keep bettering themselves.

Demand for change will come from the bottom majority of Pakistanis and it will have to be enforced.

Even social change is possible by emulating and adapting some social changes brought by Rasulullah, Khulafa Rashida, and Muslim historic rulers and personalities.

For example, Hazrat Omar bin Al Khattab RA initiated land reform in the nascent Islamic state where land became the property of the state and was distributed based on need and not familial ties. Most of all, land could not be inherited. You may interested in this @jamahir

القرآن - سورۃ نمبر 3 آل عمران
آیت نمبر 7
أَعـوذُ بِاللهِ مِنَ الشَّيْـطانِ الرَّجيـم
بِسْمِ اللّٰهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْمِ
هُوَ الَّذِىۡۤ اَنۡزَلَ عَلَيۡكَ الۡكِتٰبَ مِنۡهُ اٰيٰتٌ مُّحۡكَمٰتٌ هُنَّ اُمُّ الۡكِتٰبِ وَاُخَرُ مُتَشٰبِهٰتٌ‌ؕ فَاَمَّا الَّذِيۡنَ فِىۡ قُلُوۡبِهِمۡ زَيۡغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُوۡنَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنۡهُ ابۡتِغَآءَ الۡفِتۡنَةِ وَابۡتِغَآءَ تَاۡوِيۡلِهٖۚ وَمَا يَعۡلَمُ تَاۡوِيۡلَهٗۤ اِلَّا اللّٰهُ ؔ‌ۘ وَ الرّٰسِخُوۡنَ فِى الۡعِلۡمِ يَقُوۡلُوۡنَ اٰمَنَّا بِهٖۙ كُلٌّ مِّنۡ عِنۡدِ رَبِّنَا ‌ۚ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ اِلَّاۤ اُولُوا الۡاَلۡبَابِ ۞
ترجمہ:
وہی خدا ہے، جس نے یہ کتاب تم پر نازل کی ہے۔ اس کتاب میں دو طرح کی آیات ہیں: ایک محکمات، جو کتاب کی اصل بنیاد ہیں اور دُوسری متشابہات۔ جن لوگوں کو دلوں میں ٹیڑھ ہے، وہ فتنے کی تلاش میں ہمیشہ متشابہات ہی کے پیچھے پڑے رہتے ہیں اور اُن کو معنی پہنانے کی کو شش کیا کرتے ہیں، حالانکہ ان کا حقیقی مفہوم اللہ کے سوا کوئی نہیں جانتا۔ بخلا ف اِ س کے جو لوگ علم میں پختہ کار ہیں، وہ کہتے ہیں کہ ”ہمارا اُن پر ایمان ہے، یہ سب ہمارے رب ہی کی طرف سے ہیں۔“ اور سچ یہ ہے کہ کسی چیز سے صحیح سبق صرف دانشمند لوگ ہی حاصل کرتے ہیں

Mohkamat are what the focus should our focus. And the Mohkamat are very explicitly stated in easy to understand language in Quran. No differences on those in any translation.

Firqay are primarily focusing on Mutshabihat.

If people only read Surah Bakarah with translation, they will see the molvi hazraat from all firqay doing everything now what the Jewish molvis of that time were doing then!

 

[Yankee-stani]

Honey if you abhor gay marriage, abortion, pre marital sex etc etc, why the hell are you living in a country that endorses all that? Where the whole economy runs on interest?

Oh I forgot. Munafiq bhi tou hai hum thoray bohot. Chotay chotay cute cute se MUNAFIQ.

Oh and that Moulvi pedophilia joke you made. That speaks everything about you.

Economic migration cmon it's that simple

 

[shah_123]

LoL @Alternatiiv

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@Cliftonite @Alternatiiv @jamahir
Folks, the discussion became a little bit heated and I said things that were rude and not polite. I am sorry for that.

It takes a big man to back down from back and forth which are fruitless. I appreciate you brother.

Mah Allah swt reward you. Always strive for peace and justice.

 

[jamahir]

For example, Hazrat Omar bin Al Khattab RA initiated land reform in the nascent Islamic state where land became the property of the state and was distributed based on need and not familial ties. Most of all, land could not be inherited. You may interested in this @jamahir

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the info.

If this system would have inspired the Indian legal system ( like how indirectly the Islamic marriage system has ) then the land disputes in Indian courts which are a majority of the total 30+ million pending disputes ( some pending for decades ), could have been resolved easily or would have never existed.

And I must ask you, what about houses / buildings that were built on such public land ( through the law by Hazrat Umar ) ? What about their inheritance / willing ?

Also, this particular Islamic welfare state law is similar to the modern communist land usage particularly in the USSR. Found this :

The first Soviet Land Code affirmed the nationalization of land and abolished private ownership of land, minerals under the soil, water, and forests. Article 27 of the 1922 Land Code forbade the purchase, sale, bequeathing, or mortgaging of land. The 1922 Land Code did allow land leasing from the state until 1928

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

well done move and from uni its even better to read and understand with mature brain rather than kids just studying just to pass.. Chancellor can give more incentives to encourage students to take an interest in reading.

People who think translation will bring alot of conflict and students will not understand cuz it need explaination then i think University study is the best solution students either persue further knowledge or will not study further at all but in all this process atleast they understand Quran.
now those who doesnt like the idea they never raise an eyebrow on girls having cat walks or dance with guys in university or smoking anything they gets their hands on but bothers them one thing which is not only good but extremely important just cuz our parents are lazy enough not to push their kids to study quran further.
if uni have magic teaching, singing, dance learning or anyother waste of time they call it recreation but dont give importance to healthy games or have coaches or bring quality equipment or grounds for sports. but one good thing which brings to islam bothers them.

 

[Death Professor]

Shouldn’t this be done at earlier stage in life?

plus i really have my doubts on thr ulemas or professors that will be teaching the subject.

I think Arabic should be taught earlier. You aren't relying much on Ulemas then when you know, how to read and get the context by yourself.

 

[GDP Adil Khan Niazi]

Shouldn’t this be done at earlier stage in life?

plus i really have my doubts on thr ulemas or professors that will be teaching the subject.

Definitely you're right, but better late than never.

I also have doubts on the knowledge and level of those professors or ulemas who'll be teaching because (New generation ulemas are also modern and lack real and actual knowledge of Quran)

 

[PakPrinciples]

Just carrying forward Zia's legacy. Not surprised.

Religion is the oldest tactic politicians use when they feel they're losing relevance.

Pakistan is an Islamic Republic if people do not feel that they are able to assimilate into it nor be loyal to it then they shouldn't be living in Pakistan.

It's really that simple.

Pakistan isn't North Korea, people are free to leave at any time and the state shouldn't tolerate those who can't assimilate into, have no knowledge of, navigate through and be respectful of our Islamic culture.

At this point, how many non Science subjects does a student learn for his doctory or engineering degree? I think half the credits are now probably from religious and social/history courses.

The same is true of most B.Sc's around the world.

For example here in Canada half the courses in a B.Sc are non-core subjects. You can take Religious Ethics, Hispanic civilization, Ancient Greek mythology, etc... courses to complete your Engineering or Accounting or Biology degree.

The purpose of these courses are to create well rounded students and good citizens.

It's an obligation for every citizen to understand the Islamic Ideology that Pakistan was built on, its soldiers and civilians died for and the obligation of every mother, father and the state to teach it to future generations.

How is the Quran relevant to anyone's degree in engineering?

More importantly how is teaching in English relevant?

The worlds top performing students on PISA tests come from countries that teach in their native language (ex. Hong Kong and China in Mandarin, South Korea in Korean, Japan in Japanese, etc...).

Even the significantly poorer Vietnam teaches their kids in Vietnamese and outperforms their American counterparts and many other Western counterparts.

Teaching in English at our universities not only restricts higher education to a select few elites but those students likely did not grasp core concepts and fundamental techniques in their younger years while wasting time translating material when they could have been focused on learning new material. Not to mention this has had a damaging effect of alienating them from the larger Pakistani community and culture.

Why do you think the British forced Indian, Pakistani and Bengali children who at the time were slaves of the British Raj to learn in English only? It was to weaken us, have us abandon our culture and brainwash our ancestors into being loyal to European colonization.

hate of the pseudo leftist wannabe-whitey elite against our religion.

There's nothing "pseudo" about them liberals are generally deranged morons.

These maniacal terrorists have been brainwashing our kids through a concentrated campaign of misinformation since the 30s.

It's unfortunate that government after government have tolerated their outright treason against our constitution and their hatred of our culture, our freedoms and values. They aren't loyal to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and have no right to claim our ethnicity, heritage and citizenship.

It's their deranged thinking that lead to the creation of liberal secular India and turned it into the worlds largest open air prison for their Muslims.

Personally I don't agree with this decision. The more you force religion onto people the more they run from it.

Instead what would have been better is that kids are taught Islamiat throughout their school life, why not include Quran translation as a subset of Islamiat.

I do agree with you there but by that logic we wouldn't force kids to go to school in the first place and just wind up with a population of idiots because they'd rather be playing.

There are certain things we're required to teach our kids to be loyal, upstanding citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and basic understanding of the Quran is probably the bare minimum.

However I completely agree with you, and many others on here, that this isn't required if all schools (private and public) have mandatory teaching of Islam all the way up to University which should be implemented.

I personally think comparative theology highlighting Islam's differences and superiority over other ideologies would have been better. I personally became religious, well I try to be, on my own through research and debating.

 

[Lincoln]

Pakistan is an Islamic Republic if people do not feel that they are able to assimilate into it nor be loyal to it then they shouldn't be living in Pakistan.

It's really that simple.

Pakistan isn't North Korea, people are free to leave at any time and the state shouldn't tolerate those who can't assimilate into, have no knowledge of, navigate through and be respectful of our Islamic culture.



The same is true of most B.Sc's around the world.

For example here in Canada half the courses in a B.Sc are non-core subjects. You can take Religious Ethics, Hispanic civilization, Ancient Greek mythology, etc... courses to complete your Engineering or Accounting or Biology degree.

The purpose of these courses are to create well rounded students and good citizens.

It's an obligation for every citizen to understand the Islamic Ideology that Pakistan was built on, its soldiers and civilians died for and the obligation of every mother, father and the state to teach it to future generations.



More importantly how is teaching in English relevant?

The worlds top performing students on PISA tests come from countries that teach in their native language (ex. Hong Kong and China in Mandarin, South Korea in Korean, Japan in Japanese, etc...).

Even the significantly poorer Vietnam teaches their kids in Vietnamese and outperforms their American counterparts and many other Western counterparts.

Teaching in English at our universities not only restricts higher education to a select few elites but those students likely did not grasp core concepts and fundamental techniques in their younger years while wasting time translating material when they could have been focused on learning new material. Not to mention this has had a damaging effect of alienating them from the larger Pakistani community and culture.

Why do you think the British forced Indian, Pakistani and Bengali children who at the time were slaves of the British Raj to learn in English only? It was to weaken us, have us abandon our culture and brainwash our ancestors into being loyal to European colonization.



There's nothing "pseudo" about them liberals are generally deranged morons.

These maniacal terrorists have been brainwashing our kids through a concentrated campaign of misinformation since the 30s.

It's unfortunate that government after government have tolerated their outright treason against our constitution and their hatred of our culture, our freedoms and values. They aren't loyal to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and have no right to claim our ethnicity, heritage and citizenship.

It's their deranged thinking that lead to the creation of liberal secular India and turned it into the worlds largest open air prison for their Muslims.





I do agree with you there but by that logic we wouldn't force kids to go to school in the first place and just wind up with a population of idiots because they'd rather be playing.

There are certain things we're required to teach our kids to be loyal, upstanding citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and basic understanding of the Quran is probably the bare minimum.

However I completely agree with you, and many others on here, that this isn't required if all schools (private and public) have mandatory teaching of Islam all the way up to University which should be implemented.

I personally think comparative theology highlighting Islam's differences and superiority over other ideologies would have been better. I personally became religious, well I try to be, on my own through research and debating.

They're presented as electives and account for no more than 25%! And you can replace them with any elective, they aren't forced.

As for English , it is very relevant because it is a global language. You need it for publishments, outreach and cooperation.

 

[Azadkashmir]

reading the Quran and talking bout it is one thing but reading the Quran and taking out knowledge and applying it is another. for example quran talks about nutrition diet etc then one should take it research it and apply it in practice. in practice this can be ppl can be taught how to eat, how to cook it, how much to eat, nutrition value of best food etc.

 

[TNT]

Wow what a bunch of morons we have here. Instead of appreciating the move, they r criticising it. These jahils dont know that Quran has one meaning, regardless of any sect. A student is mature in university and that is the perfect time to study Quran and develop its understanding, so that no mullah can decieve them. This will infact root out extremism and corruption. The reason of extremism is that mullah doesnt let u study Quran and says that its difficult to understand and u have to live for half a decade in madrassah to understand it. The cream of nation goes to top universities and them studying Quran will give the real message of Islam. Non muslims who study Quran find it as the best guidance to mankind and changes their life, so howcome it will have any problems in university? Some people have an inherent hatred and bias against Islam and i pitty them as they will face their deeds after death and everyone will die one day.

 

[krash]

Pakistan would be a better place if people would actually know what the Quran says. Most people just repeat and trust random green turban mullahs and their fairy tales about Islam. Islam doesn't contradict science, the first word the revelation to the Prophet (PBUH) was "IQRA" --> read! So we should read, learn and praise the Lord for the things he taught us!

I cannot stand the hate of the pseudo leftist wannabe-whitey elite against our religion. Mullah Madness is not Islam, being ignorant and uneducated is not Islam. You never ever tried to learn your religion by yourself and all you can do is say "But the Mullah said/did something stupid and my white masters will not approve that!!".

Knowing facts and having a degree is different from having an education. And who is the best educator than our Lord and the best being mankind ever saw (PBUH)?

Learn the religion and don't let the mullahs and other madman get you down!


Yes, you should fear a nation that knows the Quran by heart. You know like your ancestors loved being ruled by the mighty Muslims who brought civilizations to your superstitious land.

You cannot understand the Quran just by reading it or its translation. This is a common misconception in societies where the Quran and Islam aren't exactly understood at all. The scholars of old would spend decades researching a single subject before presenting their opinion on it. It is not a simple read-alone book and requires delving comprehensively into the Sirah to understand what is being said and why. If you do not, you stand a greater chance of misunderstanding and misinterpreting the text than gaining anything from it. It is also not meant to be read literally. The Prophet (S.A.W) had to explain every Ayat after its nuzul. The Sahabah weren't expected to just pick it up and be good with a read. You need the Sunnah, Ahadith, and the history of Islam to gain any understanding of it. Takes a life's worth of work. Even if you could just read it, you'd first need a comprehensive study into the ancient form of Arabic that the Quran uses, the nuances used in it are alien to even today's native Arabic speakers and cannot be translated word for word.

Reading just the Quran alone is an uneducated man's quick-fix to Islam. Ironically, it usually ends up being counterproductive. Otherwise, we would be the shinning Muslim example after churning out Hafiz by the boat load every day and not stuck with the illiterate Mullahs in equal amounts.

How do you do it then? Fortunately, there are 1400 years worth of extremely comprehensive works by some of the greatest academic scholars in the world's history on every subject in the religion you can imagine. You do not need to know it all, you can access their works as needed. What you do need to study are the basics, the foundations of "Islamic thought", so to speak. A good start would be a) Comprehensive Islamic History, b) Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence (in all Fiqh), c) Intro to Islamic theology, and d) Intro to anthropology of the Muslim world. All of these need to be optional (at the discretion of the parents) and taught by bonafide academics of the respective fields who would strictly adhere to academic principles as opposed to their own personal fancies ("beliefs"), as did the great Muslim Scholars of the past. And not by the self-acclaimed "Scholars" from the nearest mosque. All of this needs to be taught in high schools and not universities. A university is a place for specialized learning, not this khichri cooked by illiterate politicians who have nothing to do with academics. After that, further specialized courses and programs can be offered at higher levels as curricula for those who seek to specialize in them, just like every other academic field out there. This last bit will revive the long lost chain of actual Islamic academics and academic tradition. Once you have them, you will turn to them for anything complicated in the Deen. You don't teach every kid electrical engineering, you give all of them the basics and then let the specialists take over. You need these specialists, you cannot do it yourself.

Will it though? Think about somewhere like LUMS, full of Pakistan hating "professors" - what Quran will they teach? It's students are mostly burgers who's parents are likely detached from religion; what interest are they going to take?

Take it you've never been to the place and not met many from there? Islamic Studies is a mandatory course. Quite a few other electives on Islam are also offered. One does not have to worry about "what Quran will they teach" since their approach to every subject is strictly academic in nature.

 

[Iltutmish]

You cannot understand the Quran just by reading it or its translation.

Would someone like Abu Bakr (ra) or Umar (ra) say the same thing? Islam doesn't need intermediators, we have had it, been there done that. We concluded that we are not another Catholic Church just with turbans.

This is a common misconception in societies where the Quran and Islam aren't exactly understood at all. The scholars of old would spend decades researching a single subject before presenting their opinion on it.

That's the talk of the people who doesn't want people to actually read the Quran. Quran is for them just like gospel singing in the church. Just recite it with a nice voice and you good, don't need to actually know what you are reciting. That's the reason why every turban wearer can come up and declare these and that haram and halal, because nobody questions him. Tell me, how can the "laymen" (there is no such thing as a priest in Islamic religion) get salvation? By following some random guy blindly? We can see to what this leads all over the Islamic world for centuries now. We have people knowing the Quran by heart but not knowing its meaning. The "results" of those decade long "studies" are ridiculous. Mullahs spending years to describe the types of menstrual blood or how to pray on the Day of Judgement. This is what the Ummah needs!

It is not a simple read-alone book and requires delving comprehensively into its Tafseer to understand what is being said and why. If you do not, you stand a greater chance of misunderstanding and misinterpreting the text than gaining anything from it. It is also not meant to be read literally. The Prophet (S.A.W) had to explain every Ayat after its nuzul.

This paragraph shows all the problems of the Ummah. Don't read the Quran, you will go astray! Again, something major companions like Uthman (ra) or Ali (ra) would say? The Quran itself says that the revelation is in a clear language:

Surah Ibrahim - 4 - Quran.com

وما ارسلنا من رسول الا بلسان قومه ليبين لهم فيضل الله من يشاء ويهدي من يشاء وهو العزيز الحكيم

quran.com

The first followers of the Prophet (PBUH) weren't Harvard astrophysicists, they were common people, poor people, opressed people without a diploma in Arabic language. But 1400 years later we need a decade long study for each and every Ayat revealed to mankind? Give me a break!

Even if you could just read it, you'd first need a comprehensive study into the ancient form of Arabic that the Quran uses, the nuances used in it are alien to even today's native Arabic speakers and cannot be translated word for word.

Quran Arabic is easier than the 3000 dialects of Arabic spoken today. What do you want to achieve? Scare people into not reading Quran before consulting 300 personal Mullahs? Nobody reads that book, all we do is: "According to Imam X", "Shaykh Y said", "Ibn $_FILL_IN_IMPORTANT_NAME was of the opinion that", name-dropping 24/7! A few years back I had a discussion in the mosque with another guy and he tried to slience me by saying: "Do you know all the words for 'lion' in Arabic?". That's the level of discussion we are having right now.

Reading the Quran alone is an uneducated man's quick-fix to Islam. Ironically, it usually ends up being counterproductive.

Islam is simple, so go with the simple solution. No need for over- academization, no need to scare people. You are basically saying without a fancy Mullah we will go astray, Quran is not an random order of words nobody understands!

Otherwise, we would be the shinning Muslim example after churning out Hafiz by the boat load every day and not stuck with the illiterate Mullahs in equal amounts.

Again: people are scared into believing that actually studying that book would lead them to gumrahi, so they are just cool with the fact that they know it by heart or can recite it perfectly.

How do you do it then? Fortunately, there are 1400 years worth of extremely comprehensive works by some of the greatest academic scholars in the world's history on every subject in the religion you can imagine.

See, I know what these Mullahs/"scholars" fabricate all day long and no, I am not impressed. I can get you a list of weird fatwas from those esteemed scholars who are more known than the Prophet (PBUH) himself. Fabricating rulings on topics where the legislator was silent is not an achievement, it's an act of degeneration of former nations. In fact the Quran is against priesthood!

Surah At-Tawbah - 31 - Quran.com

They have taken their rabbis and monks as well as the Messiah, son of Mary, as lords besides Allah, even though they were commanded to worship none bu...

quran.com

The spirit of Islam is not about "that and that is forbidden" and "that and that is allowed".

A good start would be a) Comprehensive Islamic History, b) Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence (in all Fiqh), c) Intro to Islamic theology, and d) Intro to anthropology of the Muslim world.

Agreed.

All of these need to be optional (at the discretion of the parents) and taught by bonafide academics of the respective fields who would strictly adhere to academic principles as opposed to their own personal fancies ("beliefs"), as did the great Muslim Scholars of the past.

Those great scholars were also known for takfiririzing for not having the same opinion as them. They even went to so far and prohibited marrying from another Fiqh let alone takfired them. We don't need a new priest caste, we need to go back to the roots. Overcomplicated mullahism made Muslims mad and degenerate.

After that, further specialized courses and programs can be offered at higher levels as curricula for those who seek to specialize in them, just like every other academic field out there. This last bit will revive the long lost chain of actual Islamic academics and academic tradition. Once you have them, you will turn to them for anything complicated in the Deen.

Agreed, just keep it simple in regards to Islam and its teaching.

I think before we do anything in regards to Islam, we need to check our hearts first. Do we really want guidance and salvation? Or is Islam just an ego trip for you (generally speaking not adressing you @krash)? Many of the discussions online and offline have only one purpose: to get the moral/religious high ground, it's not about actually striving for the truth, it's likea rap battle to put the other one down and ridicule him / manipulate him. Everybody needs to check his heart first, what I am trying to achieve? Am I pleasing the lord or is my attitude and my behaviour self-centred? I think this is the most important of all things: pure intentions.


TL;DR:
- Islam is simple
- Mullahs are basically useless
- Not every aspect of life needs a PhD thesis like manual from a fancy name
- Use your own brain
- READ