The problem with Pakistani liberals

[Sugarcane]

Yes, of course - perhaps if you look at it as satire - but wait, that's not really tolerable is it? Well is it or not? if notthen Liberal fascists are the least of your problems

See, almost all of the Pakistani embers behave as if they are some of thakedar of Islam and that would be fine except that they are not - but of course if we all censor ourselves, perhaps we will have little to say to each other? what do you think?

The one who censor himself and express his concern without provoking other is moderate Pakistani in my dictionary not Liberal Pakistani. Because in Pakistan most of people who claim to be liberal are this type.

 

[muse]

The one who censor himself and express his concern without provoking other is moderate Pakistani in my dictionary not Liberal Pakistani. Because in Pakistan most of people who claim to be liberal are this type.

So then you must agree that we should all censor ourselves? And do you think this applies to those who imagine themselves the thakedar of Islam?

 

[Sugarcane]

So then you must agree that we should all censor ourselves? And do you think this applies to those who imagine themselves the thakedar of Islam?

1. I imply "Censoring" here is as to restrain using foul language or cheap jokes when expressing concerns or criticizing about the matters of emotional attachment of people i.e. religion, culture etc.

2. Not only religious, it applies to all people in every aspect of life

Tolerance is achievable by being moderate only not by being on extreme (left/right)

 

[muse]

1. I imply "Censoring" here is as to restrain using foul language or cheap jokes when expressing concerns or criticizing about the matters of emotional attachment of people i.e. religion, culture etc.

2. Not only religious, it applies to all people in every aspect of life

Tolerance is achievable by being moderate only not by being on extreme (left/right)

A great post, you know some uneducated people (non-Muslims) assert that Tolerance is a by product of Pluralistic society, they even say that Islam itself is plural, as is the understanding of religion (Fahm e Deem) - what do you think?

 

[Dance]

The problem with Pakistani liberals is that they are not liberals in the true sense.

A liberal, according to the dictionary, is favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

A liberal in Pakistan is someone who is basically thinks talking in English is cool, bashing Pakistan for the sake of bashing, and writing what they think are meaningful and insightful tweets on twitter on how we're all doomed.

 

[Sugarcane]

A great post, you know some uneducated people (non-Muslims) assert that Tolerance is a by product of Pluralistic society, they even say that Islam itself is plural, as is the understanding of religion (Fahm e Deem) - what do you think?

Although i am not expert of Islam but as far as i know. If i go by Quran than yes, I agree with this understanding. For example i take following verse of Quran as guidance for being tolerant towards others beliefs. I can present my POV but can't talk bad about their beliefs.

6:108 Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did

correct me if i am wrong.

 

[muse]

The problem with Pakistani liberals is that they are not liberals in the true sense.

A liberal, according to the dictionary, is favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

A liberal in Pakistan is someone who is basically thinks talking in English is cool, bashing Pakistan for the sake of bashing, and writing what they think are meaningful and insightful tweets on twitter on how we're all doomed.

So as long as these Liberal Pakistanis don't speak your mind, they would be OK -- Yes, we were just talking about censorship and it's many merits -- But where should we begin and end? Why ask, it's clear begin by not conversing in English, and the middle is do not criticize, and of course the end is stay the heck away from twitter -- What's missing from this (other than sense) Dang, I meant to censor that, it got away from me, sorry

 

[Dance]

So as long as these Liberal Pakistanis don't speak your mind, they would be OK -- Yes, we were just talking about censorship and it's many merits -- But where should we begin and end? Why ask, it's clear begin by not conversing in English, and the middle is do not criticize, and of course the end is stay the heck away from twitter -- What's missing from this (other than sense) Dang, I meant to censor that, it got away from me, sorry

I'm not saying that should censor their thought or not go on twitter.

But its very hard to miss the fact that the liberals in Pakistan interpret liberalism as being the same as being westernized.

I'm all for pushing liberalism: people should be able to practice religion freely, speak out freely, eat/drink whatever they want etc
They're are a few true liberals in Pakistan but most of the self proclaimed liberals of Pakistan are victims of inferiority complex. Embrace and improve your own culture rather than trying to impose foreign culture on a mainly conservative/traditional society.

 

[Huda]

Yes, of course - perhaps if you look at it as satire - but wait, that's not really tolerable is it? Well is it or not? if notthen Liberal fascists are the least of your problems

See, almost all of the Pakistani embers behave as if they are some of thakedar of Islam and that would be fine except that they are not - but of course if we all censor ourselves, perhaps we will have little to say to each other? what do you think?

Okay u meant to say that liberalism means bashing against Islam & muslims should remain quite as it is Freedom Of speech(for you) ???

 

[muse]

I'm not saying that should censor their thought or not go on twitter.

But its very hard to miss the fact that the liberals in Pakistan interpret liberalism as being the same as being westernized.

I'm all for pushing liberalism: people should be able to practice religion freely, speak out freely, eat/drink whatever they want etc
They're are a few true liberals in Pakistan but most of the self proclaimed liberals of Pakistan are victims of inferiority complex. Embrace and improve your own culture rather than trying to impose foreign culture on a mainly conservative/traditional society.

Waah!! On one side you are all for people to express themselves as they will but just as long as they embrace what you say is "their" culture (since when is arab culture the same pakistani culture?) -- and the kicker IMPOSE foreign culture (you mean lke from Arabia?)

I'm impressed, it's not everyday, that one can get it from both sides

 

[Dance]

Waah!! On one side you are all for people to express themselves as they will but just as long as they embrace what you say is "their" culture (since when is arab culture the same pakistani culture?) -- and the kicker IMPOSE foreign culture (you mean lke from Arabia?)

I'm impressed, it's not everyday, that one can get it from both sides

Can you point out where I said we should embrace Arab culture? And no it is not the same thing as Pakistani culture and no we shouldn't embrace Arab, Indian, American or whatever culture.

What difference is there between what you're saying and what the mullahs are trying to do.Pakistani people are conservative and instead of making fun of that or looking down upon it efforts should be made to educate people and teach them tolerance.

 

[Liquidmetal]

All self chosen and proclaimed men of God should be bashed and bashed hard. These men are not doing God's work. God does not care about your colour, gender, sexuality, ability, etc just your deeds. However men of God will only show you hell, the more you fear the more money and influence they get. These men are nothing more than charlatans. Islam does not even allow for Mullahs, so if these men were true to Islam and God they would denounce themselves first. Can you hear that, listen hard... can you hear it. Yes, you cannot hear anything but the roar of lies and damned lies.

It is like the wahabi leaders of saud, - hardline regime to control the people yet have turned both Mecca and Medina into vegas.

Our mullahs are such charlatans.

 

[muse]

.Pakistani people are conservative and instead of making fun of that or looking down upon it efforts should be made to educate people and teach them tolerance.

Well so much for tolerance then, you identify Pakistani culture as something that is static on one hand and on the other hand suggest that it is "conservative", Certainly we all want to conserve that which good and useful, bu we do not want to conserve what which is not, isn't that so?

If what you suggest that "Conservative" is so fragile that merely pointing out it's fractures can bring it down, then it's not really conservative at all, because there is nothing to conserve after all they way you describe it - it's a fossil -- Is that what you want to be?

 

[muse]

All self chosen and proclaimed men of God should be bashed and bashed hard. These men are not doing God's work. God does not care about your colour, gender, sexuality, ability, etc just your deeds. However men of God will only show you hell, the more you fear the more money and influence they get. These men are nothing more than charlatans. Islam does not even allow for Mullahs, so if these men were true to Islam and God they would denounce themselves first. Can you hear that, listen hard... can you hear it. Yes, you cannot hear anything but the roar of lies and damned lies.

It is like the wahabi leaders of saud, - hardline regime to control the people yet have turned both Mecca and Medina into vegas.

Our mullahs are such charlatans.

Thank you for speaking the truth about our predicament -- and yet I do feel for the likes of Dance and ICon and many others who sense that the "certainties" they had taken refuge behind, now serve as no refuge at all and they despise what they call "liberals" for pointing that out.

When truth itself becomes the enemy, you know you have serious problems - but some think that if you just do not allow people to acknowledge the truth, that some how, everything will be OK -- we tried that in Pakistan, and look at what we got, at least two generations of people lost, people who are angry that they do not fit int he world and want the world to conform to their outdated and useless idea of society. We must find a better way, one that does not require violence and censorship

 

[Sugarcane]

Thank you for speaking the truth about our predicament -- and yet I do feel for the likes of Dance and ICon and many others who sense that the "certainties" they had taken refuge behind, now serve as no refuge at all and they despise what they call "liberals" for pointing that out.

When truth itself becomes the enemy, you know you have serious problems - but some think that if you just do not allow people to acknowledge the truth, that some how, everything will be OK -- we tried that in Pakistan, and look at what we got, at least two generations of people lost, people who are angry that they do not fit int he world and want the world to conform to their outdated and useless idea of society. We must find a better way, one that does not require violence and censorship

LOL!!! If you think that abusing KSA & using foul words will restore peace in Pakistan than it's your logic, try harder to achieve it soon. As far as i am concerned my criminals are Pakistanis who are playing in hands of foreign powers, and i criticize both religious power house for making Pakistan playground for their struggle of influence. But you can't do this? can you?