The problem with Pakistani liberals

[Durrak]

Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said:
“Beware of going to extremes (in religion), for
those before you were only destroyed through
excessiveness.” [An-Nasai]
Allah Most High says in the Quran, “Say: O people
of the Book, do not be excessive in your
religion.’” [4:171]

Seeeeeee.........

 

[Sugarcane]

Certainly not but I retain to myself the right to judge for myself

Everybody has right to judge, Problem is when liberals start enforcing their judgement on others or start making fun of others based on their judgements.

 

[muse]

My mistake and my apologies -- So the First one is Quranic ayat - no excess in religion - -- and then the other is a hadith, which again is spot on -- but does it refer to virtue? to good? to right? to wrong? -- See friends don't be so lazy,don't be so casual with Ayat and Hadith, these are not for throwing about, they for thinking - thinking

Look how easy it was to tie you up in knots by just asking if the Ayat and Hadith were referring to virtue? to good, to bad, to right please don't attempt to win little arguments using Scripture and appeal to Divnity, you demean them by doing so.

Everybody has right to judge, Problem is when liberals start enforcing their judgement on others or start making fun of others based on their judgements.

Please give us some examples of Pakistanis liberals enforcing their judgments on others -- if you make a good case, I will reconsider

 

[queerbait]

i went back and read the article....nowhere it provides facts on how pakistani liberals are the problem....and i have serious problem when the author implies that all liberals are rich. The author never mentions those other lliberals in pakistan..those who continue to support heck polio medicine inspite of the risks involved in administering...or those who are fighting for women's right.He is seriouslt confused that a liberal leader means a liberal government....which is never the case.

 

[Durrak]

Sorry I quit...

Everything should be in limits.... excessiveness in every field is harmfull...

Allah Hafiz...

 

[muse]

Everybody has right to judge, Problem is when liberals start enforcing their judgement on others or start making fun of others based on their judgements.

Please offer some examples of where Pakistani extreme liberals have enforced their judgments on others -- the case of the Ahmadi I made myself - but please do make this case, Nationalist was unable to , perhaps you will do better and persuade us of the dangerous extreme liberal Pakistan

 

[Sugarcane]

Please give us some examples of Pakistanis liberals enforcing their judgments on others -- if you make a good case, I will reconsider

Some liberals don't like to give religious education to their children and also want to enforce it on others. Even on PDF you will see the examples where member says that their shouldn't be any religious education unless kid is 18 years old, some liberals like alcohol and they want to open bars & night clubs when majority of Pakistanis are against this. there are lot of examples, you should spend enough time in Islamabad, posh areas of mega cities and than a mango man area to experience two extremes of society and both want to run state affairs as per their wish and ideology.

 

[liontk]

Pakistan has not even fully industrialized, I mean the west went through the progressive movement in the 20s from temperance movements to worker union. I think pakistan currently needs a period of liberalization before a centrist plateau can be reached, how can a country or for that matter any country, which has not even experienced atleast two decades of progressive governance, isn't it too early to pass the judgement. I mean pakistan has already experienced right wing politics for quite some time especially under military coups. Anyways it will be interesting to see which way the pakistani public leans in the upcoming elections!!!.

 

[muse]

Some liberals don't like to give religious education to their children and also want to enforce it on others. Even on PDF you will see the examples where member says that their shouldn't be any religious education unless kid is 18 years old, some liberals like alcohol and they want to open bars & night clubs when majority of Pakistanis are against this. there are lot of examples, you should spend enough time in Islamabad, posh areas of mega cities and than a mango man area to experience two extremes of society and both want to run state affairs as per their wish and ideology.

That was really sad - you came up with not even a single example -- what people want to do in their private life is their own business, that not forcing anyone, people are FREE to raise their children as they see fit - want a religious education? go for it, want a non-religious education, go for it -

The reason I asked you for the example is to prove to yourself that you have no solid basis for the opinion you have formed but of course you have the right to whatever opnion floats your boat, I had just wished you have valid reasons - anyway - happy trails

 

[ajpirzada]

please @muse and u please kindly define me what religius extermists is?

let me define extremists. to me they are the ones who take it as their agenda to forcefully impose their set of beliefs on others such that their feelings and actions towards others are dependent on the person's accepting or rejecting their imposition.
and just to be clear, to me anyone propogating his ideology in a respectful way is nothing to do with extremism as it is in human nature to try to convince people of what he thinks is right.

now apply that to whomever u wish.

 

[bigzgvr4]

Bro let me tell you something if you follow western de-mocracy and thier way of life all it will get you is Sexually transmitted diseases , Dui deaths , Drug problems(all the drugs were legal in western countries one time or another), people being born out of wedlock, every ones mom was sexually active before marraige(hence under their own english law are considerd bastards if your mom had sex before marraige) **** industry, Rapes, sexuall assault and poverty because of their banking system and every new disease that comes out is in the west then it travels i.e pork virus,sars,h1n1,ecoli etc. Now the liberals their are born in that kind of society so if pakistan thinks they should follow that they are wrong look at india they have the highest aids/stds they have **** industry they have stripclubs and dehli is rape capital of the world just becuase their society is following western culture just to have an image in the world to be recognized Pakistan is also having same problems cuz the liberals or all the political party wants to follow western system i am not saying follow saudi system or taliban system but make your own
Its all in the word play just look at it DE-MOCRACY(mocking the people) it sounds and ryhmes too Same thing JUMHURIAT(HHuriat passand the ones that cause problems like bla,phustoonkhawa,sindh,mqm) all of those are JUM-hurriat,De-mocracy lovers this is the biggest joke of all time
instead of calling it that they should call it elected Political system instead of de-mocracy or jum_hurriat you are digging your own grave if you think that you can work with yehudi,essai,hindu government. Look at china non religious government and is best friends with the millitary cuz in any millitary thier is no distinction between religions SO it is in pakistan best interest if they have soilder diplomats to deal with the foriegn policies and contracts rather then the corrupt civillians that are copy cat instead of being innovative they are just copy cats just like the media

 

[muse]

let me define extremists. to me they are the ones who take it as their agenda to forcefully impose their set of beliefs on others such that their feelings and actions towards others are dependent on the person's accepting or rejecting their imposition.

now apply that to whomever u wish.

So policemen, teachers, parents and such are essentially extremists? The companies you work for, the armed forces you serve are extremists?? I think we may want to refine the definition you offer - because the definition you offer suggests that there is no such thing as objective truth, just someone's version of it OR have I misunderstood?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

................ - because the definition you offer suggests that there is no such thing as objective truth, just someone's version of it .................

Bingo!

"There is no such thing as objective truth, just someone's version of it."

Golden words.

 

[bigzgvr4]

and IF some one wants to discuss secularism Pakistan is the most secular place in the world in USa you dont hear Azans but cuz its banned you hear church bells and are not banned , IN india YOu cannot have Cow's qurbani on eid cuz its banned People do it and become criminal IN pakistan Christians can have alcohol, shia and sunni are free to have azans and qurbani and pray hindus and sikhs have their temples and all the people have freedom of religion and rights, american citizens get killed in drone strike because they are muslims and they dont get the due process which the constitution garantees black people have to have federal background check before they can vote in the south
yea sure their are problems in pakistan like the mqm target killings Cuz they are hurriat passand, taliban killing shias,sunnis cuz they are hurriat passand bla killing balochis, cuz they are hurriat passand and who finance them 7/11 on the red *** and son of ****** that are in the so called secular western nations 90% of them are bastards in western countries the ones that are not are probably muslims or jews or mormons

 

[Sugarcane]

That was really sad - you came up with not even a single example -- what people want to do in their private life is their own business, that not forcing anyone, people are FREE to raise their children as they see fit - want a religious education? go for it, want a non-religious education, go for it -

The reason I asked you for the example is to prove to yourself that you have no solid basis for the opinion you have formed but of course you have the right to whatever opnion floats your boat, I had just wished you have valid reasons - anyway - happy trails

Why you want to read selectively? When a liberal want to enforce ban on religious education on others than it's equally bad when a religious extremist want to make it mandatory. When a liberal extremist want to walk nude on road than it's equally bad as religious extremist want to force hijab. When a liberal look down on a person with beard than it's equally bad as religious extremist call shaved person munafiq. When a liberal want to allow "any" kind of movies in cinema than it's equally bad as religious extremist want to ban cinema. When a liberal support extra judicial killing with drones than it's equally bad as religious extremist justify taliban's killing. When a liberal shout for human rights for terrorists than it's equally bad as religious extremists have sympathy for terrorists. But i guess, you already have made your mind, so you can't see any problem with acts of liberals and think them as angels.