The Pilot Factor

[mautkimaut]

Inherent capabilities?

are they genetic programmed to be better than Indians?
another martial race theory.

lets face it..

On his day , a PAF pilot would be a hard kill for an IAF part but to say he will be hunting merrily is an overkill.

More likely with AWACS and every other technical factor in consideration , it is a 51 : 49 case in favor of Indian pilots on MKIs

F-16 can take on Mig 29 and the Mig 21 anyday...

 

[Storm Force]

They are trying to say that the average PAF pilot is superior trained, as better tactics, and situation awareness and natural ability than the average IAF pilot.

 

[niaz]

Brig Zafar Alam Khan in his book “the way it was” points out certain basic flaws in the promotion procedures of PA officers. He says that PA officers are promoted for looking good on parade ground, following orders and not having a bad mark on their career sheets but not on their fighting ability. Cronyism also appears rife when officers are considered for promotions to the Brigadier and above.

While it is almost impossible to completely eliminate ‘subjective’ element, it can be kept to a bare minimum. I am hoping that training, evaluation in the PAF at least up to the Wing Commander level in the PAF would continue at a very high standard and promotions up to Air Commodore level on merit alone.

I have across innuendos that certain COAS gave preference to Pushtoon officers in promotions while others were partial to Urdu speaking officers. These allegations are probably untrue, nevertheless in a military environment, merit and merit alone should be the sole criteria. It is even more important in air combat as it involves small number of men at a time; say a flight of 4. Therefore individual capability plays far more important part in the air war.

No one can deny that pilot factor is important, but I would not for moment consider that IAF pilots any less skilled. You underestimate your enemy at your peril.

 

[Manas]

This Rai Muhammad Saleh Azam article
Its a crazy propaganda piece miles away from reality. More over it was written in 2002.


As Storm force said above .In last two decades IAf intruded many news tactic and skills seen first time subcontinent.

 

[mautkimaut]

Brig Zafar Alam Khan in his book “the way it was” points out certain basic flaws in the promotion procedures of PA officers. He says that PA officers are promoted for looking good on parade ground, following orders and not having a bad mark on their career sheets but not on their fighting ability. Cronyism also appears rife when officers are considered for promotions to the Brigadier and above.

While it is almost impossible to completely eliminate ‘subjective’ element, it can be kept to a bare minimum. I am hoping that training, evaluation in the PAF at least up to the Wing Commander level in the PAF would continue at a very high standard and promotions up to Air Commodore level on merit alone.

I have across innuendos that certain COAS gave preference to Pushtoon officers in promotions while others were partial to Urdu speaking officers. These allegations are probably untrue, nevertheless in a military environment, merit and merit alone should be the sole criteria. It is even more important in air combat as it involves small number of men at a time; say a flight of 4. Therefore individual capability plays far more important part in the air war.

No one can deny that pilot factor is important, but I would not for moment consider that IAF pilots any less skilled. You underestimate your enemy at your peril.

Lets be honest,
just on individual level ,there would hardly be 1% difference between two pilots from both sides.

Rest depends on the luck....

When you strap on your helmet,

a lot depends on luck whether you return or not

 

[notorious_eagle]

More likely with AWACS and every other technical factor in consideration , it is a 51 : 49 case in favor of Indian pilots on MKIs

Actually the introduction of AWACS in the subcontinent robs a huge advantage away from the IAF and especially the MKI. The introduction of the PESA radar was an absolute game changer, the 350km distance and its processing power made that radar nearly invincible in the subcontinent. PAF had to rely on ground based radars to counter the MKI, ground based radars are all good and dandy but they lack coverage in radar detection in some key areas. The IAF could have easily exploited these gaps and exploited the notion of element of surprise.

MKI's biggest advantage was its radar detection, it could see the enemy long before the enemy could be aware of the MKI's presence. With the the introduction of the AWACS, every fighter in PAF's inventory that is airborne will know exactly where the MKI is and its coordinates will be relayed to the fighters through data link. Also, the AWACS will help the PAF close those radar gaps making it impossible for the IAF to launch a surprise surgical strike. Any incoming strike package from the Indian side will be detected long before and the necessary interceptors will be launched to counter it. I have said it before and i will say it again, the introduction of the AWAC's in the subcontinent has robbed a huge advantage away from the IAF.

When you strap on your helmet,

a lot depends on luck whether you return or not

Very well said. Luck was a very huge factor that contributed to some of history's greatest military victories. If luck was not on Hitler's side, he would have been stopped in France.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

They are trying to say that the average PAF pilot is superior trained, as better tactics, and situation awareness and natural ability than the average IAF pilot.

Thats what i said in #2 post.

The whole article is pre-jugdmental that someway or another PAF pilots are supirior to IAF pilot in Training,tactics,Attitude and other human levels.

 

[Storm Force]

Notorius

Intro of AWACS is a different matter completely/

THIS THREAD is about the SUPPOSED superior PILOT OF PAF........... which many of us feel is a MYTH

 

[Manas]

Notorius

Intro of AWACS is a different matter completely/

THIS THREAD is about the SUPPOSED superior PILOT OF PAF........... which many of us feel is a MYTH

It was a 2002 article.

The number of hours flown is part of this training variable. The average fighter pilot in the PAF logs approximately 220 flying hours a year, which is the second highest in the world, the highest being that of the United States Air Force (USAF) with 230 hours flying time per annum. This is higher than the number of hours logged by the Israeli Air Force pilots who log 180 hours per year and 80 hours more than the Indian Air Force pilots who log only 130 hours a year (2

According to ?The International Institute for Strategic Studies? (IISS) 2002-2003 Oxford University Press PAF flying hours 210 (page134) and IAF flying hours 180+ (page 130)

 

[Storm Force]

MANAS why you quoting 2002

GIVE ME 2011 OR WORSE 2010

 

[Manas]

MANAS why you quoting 2002

GIVE ME 2011 OR WORSE 2010

Arrey yarr,it was in response to what was quoted in the article . The article itself was of 2002.

 

[SQ8]

This is my biggest fear, that these pilots will loose their mastery of WVR combat as PAF is scheduled to induct BVR enabled platforms in the next 5 years. In our part of the world, majority of the battles will still be fought in WVR arena.

I certainly doubt it..
If you are aware of the PG's performance in HM'10.. then you might be aware of what different kills were awarded to it and how.
The BVR training does not detract from the traditional WVR.. more so.. the introduction of high-agility and dual seeker IR missiles has the PAF revising its WVR tactics..
but lets not get carried away with this romance..
The PAF is now at a distinct disadvantage in equipment.. and the training is no longer going to make up for it.

---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

Somehow I had a feeling that the jingoistic tone of this article would invite jingoism from the Opposite side as well.
apparently of the worst kind as well.. ,,,

 

[MastanKhan]

Santro / notorious eagle,

would you gentlement please kindly shed some light on the high mark performance---I am not privy to the results. Thank you.

 

[joekrish]

Thanks guys, got to learn from the article and some good posts.
Have a few doubts would be nice if some of the big guns could enlighten me,

1. Has the training remained the same after the introduction of BVR's
2. I know skill sets are important for every pilot but i'nt the inclution of tech like fly by wire help reduce the.importance that a pilot needs to put on his flying.
3. In the near or future how often are we going to see WWR combats specially after the inclution of AWACS systems better raders and stealth fighters.

I in my openion some of the things mentioned could hold some ground but that was 10 to 15 years ago, times have changed, skill sets have changed, equipments have changed and hence training for sure has changed. Its all togather a new ball game.


Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Brig Zafar Alam Khan in his book “the way it was” points out certain basic flaws in the promotion procedures of PA officers. He says that PA officers are promoted for looking good on parade ground, following orders and not having a bad mark on their career sheets but not on their fighting ability. Cronyism also appears rife when officers are considered for promotions to the Brigadier and above.

While it is almost impossible to completely eliminate ‘subjective’ element, it can be kept to a bare minimum. I am hoping that training, evaluation in the PAF at least up to the Wing Commander level in the PAF would continue at a very high standard and promotions up to Air Commodore level on merit alone.

I have across innuendos that certain COAS gave preference to Pushtoon officers in promotions while others were partial to Urdu speaking officers. These allegations are probably untrue, nevertheless in a military environment, merit and merit alone should be the sole criteria. It is even more important in air combat as it involves small number of men at a time; say a flight of 4. Therefore individual capability plays far more important part in the air war.

No one can deny that pilot factor is important, but I would not for moment consider that IAF pilots any less skilled. You underestimate your enemy at your peril.

I will Agree with Brig Zafar, but this problem is present in other armies too, now that’s not a justification just a statement of reality. normally the officers that make a mark on battle field are hardly a "career" officer lot with prize postings and positions under their belts but its the unknown ones with average or above average lot that win the day because they dont have to worry about their spotless career.

its a wishful thinking that PAF can be immune to such worldwide phenomenon. indeed there is a higher concentration of Pashtoon pilots but they earn their place. Only one flight can be a difference between the wings and getting grounded for the rest of the career and there is no concept of 2nd best or error. I only know Pashtoon or Urdu speaking pilots and the only Punjabi one I knew died in a crash during his training in Risalpur. Same goes with the Navy with a higher concentration of Urdu speaking personnel but why not if they are up to the job and can do better than the rest. There shouldn’t be a politically correct quota system in the armed forces.