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The Pak-US Relationship

Thx. for sharing this. And yes its a bit confusing as to which President will be good for the USA and the world.

Obama has shown less sensitivity to Pakistani sensitivities (pardon the pun) than McCain who has a bit of cold war mindset and remembers Pakistani friendship and contributions.

McCain is also more pro-free trade and less protective compared to Obama. I know that for Pakistan that may be a lower priority than the security issues but once you have dealt with them you will need a less protectionist USA president than Obama.

So a mixed bag. Both have their pluses and minuses and let the best man win.

Here is how I look at Obama's 'lack of sensitivity to Pakistan's sensitivities' - he has argued that if X then Y, i.e if Pakistan is given intel, and refuses to act, then the US will.

Now I would argue that his position is actually an improvement, and caters to Pakistani sensitivities, over what we have currently, and what McCain would essentially continue, given his deference towards the US military.

1. He is actually talking about the US sharing intel. with Pakistan, something Pakistan has been demanding for a while, and has been refused by the US.

2. The US has already been 'bombing' Pakistan (with a couple of actual raids), unofficially with tacit Pakistani approval, so how is Obama's plan any different from the current scenario?

I also believe that the current ideological nature of American conservatism (I'll generalize it as Neo conservatism, which is pretty accurate in terms of foreign policy issues) is at odds with the Muslim world, regardless of the platitudes and token alliances that exist. The Neo-Cons consider Islam and the Muslim world to be a threat, unless it is recast in their mold, and that makes them dangerous no matter how many F-16's they sell.

Their world view is also one of 'black and white', one that hearkens back to a cold war mentality, and their policies will continue to reflect the sort of polarization and interference that characterized the cold war years. Obam may be more protectionist, but I agree with the protectionism he has advocated. NAFTA has resulted in a lot of businesses being set up in Mexico, but read into the conditions that exist in the Maquiladora's along the US-Mexican border. That is not what free trade was supposed to do, allow companies to exploit their workers in less developed nations.

Having Free Trade agreements reflect a commitment to ensuring worker and environmental protections is not protectionism, it is commonsense and the correct and ethical thing to do.

I find absolutely nothing to like about McCain, but then I am also volunteering for Obama's campaign.;)
 
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Well, here is one article by Mr. S A Aiyar, whom I consider very highly. It appeared in TOI last Sunday.

Barack Obama looks certain to beat John McCain and become the next US president. Most Indians will be delighted. An Obama victory will symbolise the vanquishing of racism and the dismal Bush legacy.

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Besides, McCain is a military hawk, especially on Iraq. Obama is not exactly a dove, but is far less a military adventurer than McCain, and is preferred by Indians on this score too.

Yet, a look at the voting record and campaign content of the two candidates suggests that McCain might in many ways be better for India than Obama, especially on economic issues.

A nasty global recession has begun. Nouriel Roubini of New York University predicts we will suffer the worst economic downswing since the Great Depression. So, pressures will mount for protectionist measures and beggar-thy-neighbour policies in the US, hurting countries like India. Apart from erecting import barriers and subsidising dumped exports, US politicians will seek to curb the outsourcing of services to India. Visa curbs will slow the movement of skilled workers and their dollar remittances back to India.

McCain is one of the few American politicians in either party with the courage and conviction to stand up to protectionist populism. By contrast, Obama embodies protectionism.

Look at the accompanying chart. It shows that McCain has voted 88% of the time against bills creating trade barriers, and 90% of the time against export subsidies for US producers. Few other senators have such a splendid record.

Obama has served a much shorter time in the Senate, and avoided voting on many key issues. He has voted against trade barriers only 36% of the time. He supported export subsidies on the two occasions on which he voted, a 100% protectionist record in this regard.

In 2007, he voted to reduce visas issued to foreign workers (such as Indian software engineers), and to ban Mexican trucks on US roads. He sometimes voted for free trade - he supported the Oman Free Trade Act and a bill on miscellaneous tariff reductions and trade preference extensions. More often he voted for protectionist measures including 100% scanning of imported containers (which would make imports slower and costlier), and emergency farm spending.

In 2005 he voted to impose sanctions on China for currency manipulation, and against the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA). He voted for the Byrd amendment, a disgraceful bill (later struck down by the WTO) that gifted anti-dumping duties to US producers who complained, thus making complaining more profitable than competitive production.

Obama says the North American Free Trade agreement is a bad one, and must be renegotiated. He has opposed the US-Colombia Free Trade Agreement on the bogus ground that Colombia is not protecting its trade union leaders from the drug mafia. In fact, such assassinations have fallen steadily from 205 in 2001 to just 25 last year. Obama is cynically twisting facts to woo the most protectionist US trade unions. This cannot but worry India, which may also be subjected to bogus slander and trade disadvantages.

By contrast, McCain has consistently voted for open trade. He has opposed federal curbs as well as private curbs on outsourcing to countries like India. He opposed the disgraceful Byrd amendment on anti-dumping duties. He voted against farm subsidies and labour standards for imports (which are not necessarily bad but could become a disguised form of protectionism).

Unlike Obama, McCain voted against imposing trade sanctions on China for supposedly undervaluing its currency to keep exports booming and accumulate large forex reserves. India has followed a similar policy, though with less export success than China. But if indeed India achieves big success in the future, it could be similarly targeted by US legislators and, will need people like McCain to resist.

Obama favours extensive subsidies for US farmers, hitting Third World exporters like India. This has been one of the issues on which the Doha Round of WTO is gridlocked. McCain could open the gridlock, Obama will strengthen it.

Obama also favours subsidies for converting maize to ethanol. The massive diversion of maize from food to ethanol has sent global food and fertiliser prices skyrocketing, hitting countries like India. But McCain has always opposed subsidies for both US agriculture and ethanol. While campaigning, he had the courage to oppose such subsidies even in Iowa, an agricultural state he badly needs to win if he is to become president.

Okay, some readers will say, McCain may be better for India on economic issues, but will be a disaster on foreign policy issues. I'm far from sure. All Iraqi political parties want the US to withdraw most troops within a year and all troops by 2011, so a US withdrawal is certain regardless of who becomes US president. McCain is a hawk on Iran while Obama says he will talk without preconditions. But the difference may not mean much, since Iran refuses to talk before withdrawal of US support for Israel and US troops from the Middle East.

So when Obama wins, don't cheer too loudly. It will be great to have a black US president. It would be even greater if he followed McCain's economic policies.

Where McCain scores over Obama-Swaminomics-S A Aiyar-Columnists-Opinion-The Times of India

A bit off-topic but I guess the protection issue is important to Pakistan too as it looks to increase its share of the outsourcing market.
 
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WASHINGTON, Oct 27 (APP): Applauding Pakistan’s strong moves in the fight against terrorism in the areas along its Afghan border, a U.S. newspaper has urged Washington to extend development assistance to the country with a new approach that should not focus on security cooperation alone.

“Gen. David H. Petraeus this week becomes head of the U.S. Central Command, in charge of U.S. forces in the Middle East and South and Central Asia. He should regard coordination of military objectives with Pakistan’s nonmilitary needs as essential for a new approach to be successful,”Honolulu Star-Bulletin, a leading paper in the home state of U.S. presidential frontrunner Barrack Obama said.

In an editorial, the newspaper noted the importance of removing mistrust between the two allies and appreciated Pakistan’s recent steps taken by President Asif Ali Zardari’s government.

The United States should reciprocate Pakistan’s efforts through comprehensive cooperation. The paper also noted appreciatively the recent Pakistani move to fight terrorists with the support of tribal leaders.

“Recent actions taken by the new democratic leadership of Pakistan give encouraging signs of a new effort against the terrorists, and the U.S. should respond accordingly,” the editorial urged.
 
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I would call a lot of Mr. Aiyer's conclusions 'alarmist', and disagree with his interpretation of policies that might be pushed by Obama.

However, even if Aiyer's arguments and concerns were taken to be valid, worrying about protectionism is akin to putting the 'cart before the horse', as far as Pakistan and the Middle East is concerned. The bigger concern right now is to implement policies and get on a track that moves towards regional stabilization, and the current surrender of State to Defense does not offer that, and IMO, under McCain that would continue. There is no guarantee it won't under Obama either, but with him we atleast have the vocalization of a different approach and philosophy to the US's global role.

No matter what economic policies the US pushes, without stability in Pakistan they will be of little import. Therefore a shift away from the conservatism of the Bush Administration and the US military leadership is essential.
 
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I agree and I did note earlier that this would be a distant second issue for you guys right now.
 
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I want to know from the Pakistani members which US president they prefer in the White House.

I understand that most on here doesn't like Obama because of his attitude towards Pakistan. However, I would like to know your preferences.

Obama may be negative towards Pakistan but his other policies (political) are better than McCain. As I am aware, Obama is the preferred by most nations and people.

McCain, on the otherhand is tipped to continue Bush's legacy and he is more of an aggressor.

Now, In this situation, do you pick the one that is bad for Pakistan but better for the world or do you pick someone that is bad for the world period?.

This situation is similar to picking the better egg from two bad eggs.
 
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Here is how I look at Obama's 'lack of sensitivity to Pakistan's sensitivities' - he has argued that if X then Y, i.e if Pakistan is given intel, and refuses to act, then the US will.

Now I would argue that his position is actually an improvement, and caters to Pakistani sensitivities, over what we have currently, and what McCain would essentially continue, given his deference towards the US military.

The problem, as they have stated in the past is that giving Intel to Pakistan, leads to the militants being forewarned in some way. Giving Pakistan intel has been a failure, somehwhere in the Pakistani chain of command, the militants are getting that info.

Now from their POV, why do you think they will trust Pakistan to 'act' on the intel, when even giving them the intel leads to a compromised mission.
 
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Too much idolization of the individual here. It's the most important single position in America (probably) and certainly newsworthy but the undue global fascination only highlights the continuing spotlight focus by the world on our "form" with less understanding of our "function".

An epically classic political novel (read "fiction", kiddies) written by Allen Drury in the late fifties (same time as "The Ugly American") entitled "Advise and Consent" spells out the formal and informal checks and balances embedded in our political and bureaucratic apparatus.

Nobody gets all they want all the time. Nope. Plus, even with only a two party system, mid-term congressional elections can change the dynamic of any administration mid-course.

All the above means that, IMHO, little will functionally change in the development and implementation of American policy towards Pakistan over the current processes and players. In fact, it's a fair chance that Robert Gates may stay a year in the new administration-REGARDLESS OF THE PRESIDENT-ELECT. Let's hope so, btw, as that would be a tad unusual but certainly offers the benefit of some continuity of objectives.

"The bigger concern right now is to implement policies and get on a track that moves towards regional stabilization, and the current surrender of State to Defense does not offer that, and IMO, under McCain that would continue."

The pendulum swings towards Afghanistan. That means Pakistan too. New policies are in development. Some will endure. Others may change. There's a new understanding that's evident between Pakistan and America. There, equally, seems to be movement afoot within both the Afghani gov't and ISAF towards some rationalization of military and civil objectives, to include the pursuit of drug-related activities as elements of the insurgency and not only simple crime. I think that some shifts were in the works regardless of the next President nor does that offer room for radical revision.

Maybe with Iran but not here. Not right now.
 
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I think that some shifts were in the works regardless of the next President nor does that offer room for radical revision.

Maybe with Iran but not here. Not right now.

I am not suggesting that Obama would necessarily offer a radical shift in position, but that with McCain a radical shift, or even any shift, is almost certainly ruled out.

I would not argue against the 'system vs individual' argument you outlined, nonetheless, the individual, POTUS, does carry enormous influence in terms of US philosophy, and setting overall policy and direction.

It was a presidential change that led to the US succumbing to British demands of intervention in Iran to overthrow Mossadegh, with the scheming of the Dulles brothers (quite active in Latin America as well). I must admit that I have very little faith that under the NeoCons the CIA and US military is not being used for purposes and policies hearkening back to those years of the cold war.

There are signs that there may be increasing cooperation between the two sides, however, as I argued earlier, many in the current generation of conservatives are 'unnatural' allies for Muslim nations, and are incompatible/uncomfortable with the idea of coexisting, or at the very least trusting, with an Islam that does not conform to their particular view.

If not a radical change in how the US approaches stabilization in Afghanistan/Pakistan, I am hoping that we see the reverse of the change in dynamics when power changed hands between Truman and Eisenhower.

Of course, lets see who wins the election first.

GO Obama!!
 
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* Scholar says US should support Pakistan in economy, trade, health and education​

WASHINGTON: The next United States administration must broaden its co-operation with Pakistan beyond its immediate security interests as a way forward to sustainable peace and development in the region, leading experts urged as Americans prepare to elected a new president on Tuesday.

The relationship between the two anti-terrorism partners has been viewed as a priority by both Democrat hopeful Barack Obama and his Republican rival John McCain in the hard-fought election campaign.

Both support a bipartisan Congressional move to enact legislation towards expanding economic assistance for the country but differ on the ways terrorists should be fought in the Tribal Areas.

Support: “The US should support Pakistan in fields like economy, trade, health, education and infrastructure development and strengthen co-operation in areas which bring economic opportunities to people and this way win hearts and minds of the people,” says Lisa Curtis, a scholar at The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank.

In this respect, Curtis particularly notes the importance of materialising the long-awaited Reconstruction Opportunity Zones initiative in the Tribal Areas and other parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan since the preferential trade programme will generate jobs for local people.

A recent study by top American experts on South Asia, while crafting Pakistan policy guidelines for the next US president, acknowledged American concerns on defeating terrorism in the region but warned that “each strike (by a US drone) carries the cost of undermining US long-term objectives of stabilising Pakistan and preventing radical forces from strengthening in the country”.

Analyst Robert Hathaway says the US should particularly pay attention to bolstering its trade co-operation with Pakistan.

Pakistan’s Ambassador to the US Hussain Haqqani believes that the two countries will continue to have close relationship under the next president but said that unilateral actions into his country are not the way forward in the fight against terrorism. app
 
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A Quiet Deal With Pakistan

By David Ignatius
Tuesday, November 4, 2008; Page A17

Pakistan is publicly complaining about U.S. airstrikes. But the country's new chief of intelligence, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, visited Washington last week for talks with America's top military and spy chiefs, and everyone seemed to come away smiling.

They could pat themselves on the back, for starters, for the assassination of Khalid Habib, al-Qaeda's deputy chief of operations. According to Pakistani officials, he was killed on Oct. 16 by a Predator strike in the Pakistani tribal area of South Waziristan. Habib, reckoned by some to be the No. 4 leader in al-Qaeda, was involved in recruiting operatives for future terrorist attacks against the United States.

The hit on Habib attests to the growing cooperation -- in secret -- between the United States and Pakistan in the high-stakes war along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan, which U.S. intelligence officials regard as the crucial front in the war on terrorism.

The CIA had been gunning for Habib for several years, including a January 2006 Predator attack that produced false reports that he had been killed. The agency has needed better human intelligence on the ground, and improved liaison with Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, may help.
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Behind the stepped-up Predator missions in recent weeks is a secret understanding between the United States and Pakistan about the use of these drones. Given Pakistani sensitivities about American meddling, this accord has been shielded in the deniable world of intelligence activities. Officially, the Pakistanis oppose any violation of their airspace, and the Pakistani defense minister issued a public protest yesterday about the Predator raids. But that's not the whole story.

The secret accord was set after the September visit to Washington by Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari. It provided new mechanics for coordination of Predator attacks and a jointly approved list of high-value targets. Behind the agreement was a recognition by the Zardari government, and by Pakistan's new military chief, Gen. Ashfaq Kiyani, that the imminent threat to Pakistan's security comes from Islamic terrorists rather than from arch-rival India.

The approved target list includes, in addition to al-Qaeda operatives, some Afghan warlords who were once sheltered by the ISI, including Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the Haqqani family network and Taliban leader Mohammad Omar. Also on the target list is Baitullah Mehsud, often described as the leader of the Pakistani Taliban.

The ground war in the tribal areas is the Pakistanis' responsibility, and they report some recent success. The most aggressive campaign has been in the district of Bajaur, just east of the Afghan province of Kunar. In August, the Pakistani military began attacking al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters there. When troops were stymied by a network of tunnels, the Pakistanis called in their own air attacks.

Tribal leaders in Bajaur, angered by the fighting, began turning against the militants, according to Pakistani officials. The Pakistanis claim similar success in mobilizing local tribes in the border districts of Dir and Kurram. Next, they say, they plan to take the ground war into North and South Waziristan, where al-Qaeda has its most important refuges.

A confidential Pakistani military report on the recent fighting in Bajaur and neighboring provinces counted 1,140 insurgents killed or wounded and 197 captured. Civilian casualties totaled 848 killed or wounded, plus 400,000 refugees.

The United States is quietly helping by sending at least 25 Special Forces soldiers to train Pakistan's Frontier Corps. But the Americans, recognizing public sensitivity to foreign interference, are keeping a low profile.

What's different on the Pakistani side isn't just the secret cooperation with America. There was lots of that under the previous president, Pervez Musharraf. What's new is that Zardari and Kiyani are working openly to build popular support for their operations against the Muslim militants. An example was testimony on the terrorism threat last month to a secret session of the Pakistani parliament by Pasha, the new ISI chief, which was widely reported.

And Kiyani seems determined to stop Musharraf's practice of using the ISI to maintain contact with the Afghan warlords. He has cleaned house by appointing new heads for the service's four main directorates, in addition to the new chief.

U.S. military and intelligence chiefs applaud Pakistan's cooperation. But they're still nervous. The U.S.-Pakistan relationship hangs by a slender thread; Pakistani pride sometimes prevents officials from taking full advantage of the relationship, and America's embrace has sometimes been politically fatal for pro-American leaders, such as Musharraf.

And it's an inherently unstable arrangement: Pakistan's leaders publicly decry U.S. attacks, and the United States, with a wink and a nudge to its ally, keeps on attacking.

The writer is co-host of PostGlobal, an online discussion of international issues. His e-mail address isdavidignatius@washpost.com.

David Ignatius - A Quiet Deal With Pakistan - washingtonpost.com

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Another opinion indicating a possible shift in the US-Pak military cooperation and coordination.
 
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A powerful article by Ignatius but it's been posted on the "Missiles Kill 29", I believe.

There's a TON in that article. If true, and it reads very digestibly, he's got some serious inside connections with DoD. I'd say State but everybody knows that Gates is the true SecState these days.

I suspect that they could give him the cabinet, V.P., and Prez job and he'd be just fine. Probably wouldn't even ruffle his feathers.:lol:
 
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