The PAF is set to receive a batch of Egyptian Air Force Mirage-Vs

[Comrade]

The sole purpose of getting these Mirages is for Mirage rebuild factory MRF and secondly that PAC nor PAF can afford to lose a JF17 in a deep strike role as a deep striking plane is always vulnerable to be shot down by both air and specially ground air defense systems hence the strategy is to keep the Mirages in flying states for as long as possible as losing a plane can badly affect its reputation and marketing strategies as a selling product.
Keeping Mirages flying is nothing else but to protect JF-17's program and marketing unless its battle proven with confirm kills recorded or deep strike missions performed across the borders.

 

[Tipu7]

are they really required after JF-17 Block III ?

Well, PAF was once planning to develop combination of F16, Jf17 and M2K. Jf17 was suppose to replace F7P/PG fleet entirely and M2K were meant to replace all Mirage III/V.

 

[denel]

After ROSE upgrade, there is no news of a new upgrade neither continuation of ROSE upgrades for ROSE IV etc. Therefore, these could be used as spares for 2 ROSE squadrons and 1 Naval Squadron.

I thought there was capability of inhouse assembly for grifo M sets and all its integration points; i assume same plumbing from altas may also be used here?

I'm sure PAF has closer look before going for deal. And will completely evaluate, inspect airframes before clearing for flying.
The mirage overhaul factory is there to ensure.
We should trust PAF

Nope I dont trust their leadership.

 

[Signalian]

I thought there was capability of inhouse assembly for grifo M sets and all its integration points; i assume same plumbing from altas may also be used here?

While PAF possesses the capability, it seems PAF used non-upgraded Mirages for 27th Feb strike, which could mean PAF is not willing to upgrade anymore Mirages, even these ones from EAF.

 

[denel]

While PAF possesses the capability, it seems PAF used non-upgraded Mirages for 27th Feb strike, which could mean PAF is not willing to upgrade anymore Mirages, even these ones from EAF.

Yes that would make sense give the limited lifespan. But what is a challenge is mixed messages of not letting go of an old love machine.

 

[Basel]

Gripen was refused to us in 2006. I doubt the Swedes will change their mind now. Your overall expenditure would be the same as the16s . Gripen certainly is not cheap.
A

But it has much better integration with EriEye AWACS.

 

[araz]

But it has much better integration with EriEye AWACS.

It might but it is no good if it is not going to be offered to us. Look at the Indian game plan. They have held the whole aviation industry to ransom with their promise to procure the "mother of all deals". Meanwhile all they do is eat Halwa puri at the expense of the providers while things are politely or bluntly refused to us. With the Gripen the refusal was fairly blunt. It might also have to do with our weak financial position but none the less it was refused.
A

Yes that would make sense give the limited lifespan. But what is a challenge is mixed messages of not letting go of an old love machine.

It is a classic example of using a platform which in spite of its age is ideal for the role which it is being used for, is cheap and its loss does not give the enemy any moral victory. In IAF case if we down a couple of 21s it is not a great thing. However the MKI loss is a moral loss of a major frontline platform.
On record I again want to reiterate that the MKI loss might have been due to idiotic and careless lack of apprehension of the enemy plan. I bet if the PAF had followed IAF back into Indian territory we would have suffered losses as well.
A

 

[Basel]

It might but it is no good if it is not going to be offered to us. Look at the Indian game plan. They have held the whole aviation industry to ransom with their promise to procure the "mother of all deals". Meanwhile all they do is eat Halwa puri at the expense of the providers while things are politely or bluntly refused to us. With the Gripen the refusal was fairly blunt. It might also have to do with our weak financial position but none the less it was refused.
A

What Gripen offer best for Pakistan is its TAT and very low maintenance crew requirements which allow PAF to use less number of birds for more number of sorties.

 

[denel]

It might but it is no good if it is not going to be offered to us. Look at the Indian game plan. They have held the whole aviation industry to ransom with their promise to procure the "mother of all deals". Meanwhile all they do is eat Halwa puri at the expense of the providers while things are politely or bluntly refused to us. With the Gripen the refusal was fairly blunt. It might also have to do with our weak financial position but none the less it was refused.
A


It is a classic exam0le of using a platform which in spite of its age is ideal for the role which it is being used for, is cheap and its loss does not give the enemy any moral victory. In IAF case if we down a couple of 21s it is not a great thing. However the MKI loss is a moral loss of a major frontline platform. On record I again want to reiterate that the MKI loss might have been due to idiotic and careless lack of apprehension of the enemy plan. I bet if the PAF had followed IAF back into Indian territory we would have suffered losses as well.
A

I concur, if they had crossed over then who knows what the attrition rate may have been. Bottom line, they were caught off guard but people learn and tactics change.

 

[araz]

Well, PAF was once planning to develop combination of F16, Jf17 and M2K. Jf17 was suppose to replace F7P/PG fleet entirely and M2K were meant to replace all Mirage III/V.

My dear Sir that plan has gone ghudday line for at least the last 2 decades if not longer. I think PAF is milking theM3/5 cow till the udders come into their hands. So you may yet see them in use for the next 10 years in limited numbers.
A

 

[Ultima Thule]

What Gripen offer best for Pakistan is its TAT and very low maintenance crew requirements which allow PAF to use less number of birds for more number of sorties.

But sir currently Sweden is currently denying Grippen to us @Basel sir

 

[araz]

I concur, if they had crossed over then who knows what the attrition rate may have been. Bottom line, they were caught off guard but people learn and tactics change.

The next time it will be Plan B. The IAF is already demonstrating a clear lack of initiative with regards to thheir incursions into Paklands. I guess " once butten twice shy".

What Gripen offer best for Pakistan is its TAT and very low maintenance crew requirements which allow PAF to use less number of birds for more number of sorties.

The Jft gives us all of that and much more at a fraction of a cost. The capabilities are in the ball park at 1/3 rd the cost so NOW Gripen offers us nothing more.
A

 

[denel]

But sir currently Sweden is currently denying Grippen to us @Basel sir

listen. you dont get it; this is US engine that will be sanctioned. BEst to avoid anything that has restrictions. Look at the helos. Same kak.

 

[Deltadart]

We seems to go in circles whenever we acquire some plane. Out come the fantasies of getting su35, m2k, f16, grippen. In reality either we can't afford them or we were denied the equipment on political or strategic grounds.
This situation is not going to change in the foreseeable future. We keep going for Mirages because we have the infrastructure in place and they can be acquired at reasonable price. For the f16s, the same logic applies. They are our flag ship and our sharpest sword, but the down side is that they are highly sanctioned. So this is our dilemma.

 

[Basel]

But sir currently Sweden is currently denying Grippen to us @Basel sir

They objected on 2 things during Mush era, 1 Pakistan don't have elected Government 2 they don't sell weapons to hostile areas or region, first is resolved second can be resolved with good diplomacy.

Gripen-NG in numbers of around 60 or possibly 72 with JFT and F-16/will be much better than having 20-40 latest EFTs or Su-35s.

The next time it will be Plan B. The IAF is already demonstrating a clear lack of initiative with regards to thheir incursions into Paklands. I guess " once butten twice shy".


The Jft gives us all of that and much more at a fraction of a cost. The capabilities are in the ball park at 1/3 rd the cost so NOW Gripen offers us nothing more.
A

Gripen NG is dream of any tech support team, all is not about what aircraft can carry and have, although in NCW level Gripen-NG is superior to what JFT or F-16s offer but why Gripen-NG is suitable for Pakistan is the concept its built on.