The Outsider:Jaswant Singh & Gen.Musharrff on India-Pakistan Relations

[W.11]

pakistan and india(excluding MP) are like two enemies, stranded in similar situation, they are enemies but they still have common goal and have common enemy, that is the stranded situation because of these stinking bulldog brits, and the situation is our poverty and education and third world state

we cant just make bombs for billions of dollars will neglect our poverty and other issues

together we will survive, but fallen apart we both will be towards our own death

so i propose, lets be friends, become developed, open up trades, be honest, and when the right time comes, we would settle our scores then

so lets just shake hands for now

 

[neutral_person]

I think its about time we just somehow close the Kashmir issue once and for all, and look towards nationbuilding our respective countries. I dont know what the solution to Kashmir is, but instead of fighting wars, we should just settle it somehow (DIPLOMATICALLY) and finally close the partition story, and go our separate ways.

 

[Azazel]

Not friends. We can cooperate on some issues.

India has to accept Pakistan is a different country with a different culture.

We have already accepted that fact and moved on.Its time for your to do the same.

 

[Yaduveer]

lol grow up, these old boys are people before the creation of Pakistan and India.

People who may have had connections on the other side of the border.

Most Pakistanis couldn't care any less what is happening India.

Most Pakistani intellectuals like Ahmed Hasan Dani and myself believe Pakistan's future is with Afghanistan + Central Asia, and possibly China

lol, the longer the Kashmir dispute simmers the more opportunity it gives to people like me to advance our objectives.

Isn't that grand? Wouldn't you say?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for Musharraf and Singh, well they know the truth, and the truth is usually revealed behind closed doors.

Not public talk shows or press conferences.

We all know what Kiyani's opinions and the people's opinion of India are in Faisalabad. lol.

Look, they had differences still had much of respect for each other.That's why they are part of solution.

People like you and me (Urban Middle Class) are the BIGGEST part of problem if our governments reach any solution on Kashmir, we would be first to shout like 'Selling of Kashmir'.

P.S. Please try to write even one sentence without grammatical mistakes, before proclaiming yourself a intellectual.

 

[PakShah]

I meant we should not be friends with India. but ofcourse this moronic forum system editing button does not work.

 

[neutral_person]

Pakshah the Intellectual.

This is funny $hit

Whats so funny about it? The way I see it, he is 100% right. There is no future between India and Pakistan, our history for the last 60 years with wars and propaganda against one another confirms that. In this case, Pak will look at other non-Indian options for its future, and so will India one day when the Kashmir conflict is finally settled.

 

[PakShah]

Look they had differences still have much of respect for each other,That's why they are part of solution.

People like you and me (Urban Middle Class) are the BIGGEST part of problem if our governments reach any solution we would be first to shout like 'Selling of Kashmir'.

lol, I believe the Kashmir dispute should be solved first before doing anything else? What is taking India to do her part.

I believe my country has a valid point here.

Whats so funny about it? The way I see it, he is 100% right. There is no future between India and Pakistan, our history for the last 60 years with wars and propaganda against one another confirms that. In this case, Pak will look at other non-Indian options for its future, and so will India one day when the Kashmir conflict is finally settled.

Like I said, although I won't like to say it, but I too believe peace between Pakistan and India will bring prosperity to the region.
However the Kashmir dispute needs to solved according to just and moral principles.

Otherwise nothing is going to move forward.

 

[SQ8]

God I love that colonial accent of jaswant Singh.
A brilliant statesman, and if you read his accounts, read his views on everything from Culture to history...
A Brilliant man..
Both him and Vajpayee are very very cultured...

 

[neutral_person]

lol, I believe the Kashmir dispute should be solved first before doing anything else? What is taking India to do her part.

I believe my country has a valid point here.



Like I said, although I won't like to say it, but I too believe peace between Pakistan and India will bring prosperity to the region.
However the Kashmir dispute needs to solved according to just and moral principles.

Otherwise nothing is going to move forward.

Well, declaring LoC into international border is the only solution there is. I dont see India giving Pak any land, and neither do I see Pak giving India any land. The only way the LoC is changing is if another war is fought, and that would have disastrous consequences for both nations in this day and age.

 

[PakShah]

Well, declaring LoC into international border is the only solution there is. I dont see India giving Pak any land, and neither do I see Pak giving India any land. The only way the LoC is changing is if another war is fought, and that would have disastrous consequences for both nations in this day and age.

lol let us not go here in circles.

Accepting the status quo is an injustice to the Kashmiris and Pakistan.

Keep creating problem if thats want you want.

 

[PakShah]

The only one creating problems is Pak. Anyways, lets just agree ot disagree and move on.

Actually India which is not letting the Kashmiris decide what they want.

Kashmir is the Palestine of Asia.

Anyways, what to do I am afraid the region will be in conflict.

Ok keep fighting if that is what you want.

 

[PakShah]

Lets keep focused here.

Why doesn't India let the Kashmiris decide what they want?

Afterall India claims to be a democracy?

Well , I'm afraid nthe Kashmir conflict is going to continue.

What to do? If India won't do justice then, the conflict will continue.

 

[FarazUSA]

Well as per the UN resolutions, Pakistan has to completely move its forces out of ***, India can keep some forces and then
a plebiscite would take place. I think we have never removed our forces from ***, so plebiscite is not possible.
If tomorrow we were to move our forces, India will be forced to go with a plebiscite.

 

[PakShah]

God I love that colonial accent of jaswant Singh.
A brilliant statesman, and if you read his accounts, read his views on everything from Culture to history...
A Brilliant man..
Both him and Vajpayee are very very cultured...

I respect Jaswant Singh, but lets be realistic here, why doesn't the Indian government first want settle the Kashmir dispute according to just and moral principles. Its very simple.

Follow the rules of the partitioning of the British Raj. Hold a Plebiscite, and see what the Kashmiri people want.

Is it Pakistan or India?

Well as per the UN resolutions, Pakistan has to completely move its forces out of ***, India can keep some forces and then
a plebiscite would take place. I think we have never removed our forces from ***, so plebiscite is not possible.
If tomorrow we were to move our forces, India will be forced to go with a plebiscite.

Nice try. this one has already been answered by Asim Aquil. Pakistan has the right to keep troops in it's section of Kashmir to keep atleast law and order.

 

[SQ8]

The first rule of identifying intellectuals is to see if they ever declared themselves one.
That usually stops the award brigade right there, Zaid Hamid and others ended up with the same problem.

On the topic.. notice how Musharraf stammers through the Kargil section.. lying is never convincing.
And he has to come up with arguments to defend it. Had he been a bigger man, he would admit his mistake and throw another hat in the ring for opponents to the peace hopes from the Indian side.
But then again, there are men.. and there are men.. Jaswant Singh is the latter.