The origins of tribes across Pakistan and Hindustan

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

There was also an Indian study that found that Greek genetic contribution was up to 15% of the population of Punjab (Indian Punjab). I'm guessing these numbers would be much higher on the Pakistani side.

I am including the Greek Influence in the paternal lineages in the same club as Scythian,Kushana,Parthian,Hunas

then it seems my guess has been stupendously correct......I said that the share of pre-Islamic Central Asian Lineages in the overall paternal linage in North West India is 10% and 20% in Pakistan (This exluding the original Aryan lineages)

around 56% of the paternal Lineages in Pakistani Punjab and Sindh stem from Central Asia
around 26% of the paternal Lineages in North-Western India stem from Central Asia
around 16% of the paternal Lineages in rest of North-India stem from Central Asia
around 2-5% of the paternal Lineages in South India stem from Central Asia (Brahmins such as F1 team owner Vijay Mallya and his son, Google CEO Sundar Pichai etc etc)



This gradation would give you a very good idea how people in India look vis-a-vis Pak Punjabi and Sindhi.......for Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir Hindus/Sikhs you should up the percentage to 30 from 26...

 

[padamchen]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Their latest abhorrent attempt to hijack the history of lands associated with Pakistan is to come up with the bizarre and absurd claim that Bugtis and Marris are Marathi descendants heheheheheeee (I kid you not), I suspect in order to justify their now open interference in Baluchestan,,,,,,,,, Kasuri sahib summed it up best.

Typical Marathis

The Quintessential Bugti

Marri only. Not really desert fighters, but come from the stock of some of the world's finest guerilla warriors from the ghats of Western India.

It's a well chronicled fact. From Maratha times.

And Maratha and Marathi are not really synonymous.

Cheers, Doc

 

[django]

Marri only. Not really desert fighters, but come from the stock of some of the world's finest guerilla warriors from the ghats of Western India.

It's a well chronicled fact. From Maratha times.

And Maratha and Marathi are not really synonymous.

Cheers, Doc

Doc their are Indian sites all over the net claiming both Bugtis and Marris as Marathis , common sense says else, it seems the obsession to create links where their are non has made some of the RSS types truly unhinged, btw their are some RSS types who are claiming Saxons due to some Indians having the name Saxena (I could go on and on), I swear I am not kidding, once again futile attempts by Ganga folks to try to fuse different regions, ethnicities in some grand illusion of oneness of so called Bharat Mata.Kudos Doc
BTW Doc you are a bright man, I suspect their is no way in hell you believe Marris and Marathis are one and the same. Kudos and regards Doc

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Doc their are Indian sites all over the net claiming both Bugtis and Marris as Marathis , common sense says else, it seems the obsession to create links where their are non has made some of the RSS types truly unhinged, btw their are some RSS types who are claiming Saxons due to some Indians having the name Saxena (I could go on and on), I swear I am not kidding, once again futile attempts by Ganga folks to try to fuse different regions, ethnicities in some grand illusion of oneness of so called Bharat Mata.Kudos Doc
BTW Doc you are a bright man, I suspect their is no way in hell you believe Marris and Marathis are one and the same. Kudos and regards Doc

Russland comes from Rishi
Taj Mahal comes from Tejo Mahalaya
Christianity comes from Krishna Neeti (Rules of Krishna)
Vatican comes from Vatika (general House)


I could go on and on


BTW This is all crazy, and contributes heavily to the utter historical ignorance of the affluent upper middle class of India


It is all down to PN Oak...Hindus have an incorrigible fondness for his utter gutter trash
His son Nilkanth Oak seems to have garnered a sizeable following in the Indian Internet crowd

 

[padamchen]

Doc their are Indian sites all over the net claiming both Bugtis and Marris as Marathis , common sense says else, it seems the obsession to create links where their are non has made some of the RSS types truly unhinged, btw their are some RSS types who are claiming Saxons due to some Indians having the name Saxena (I could go on and on), I swear I am not kidding, once again futile attempts by Ganga folks to try to fuse different regions, ethnicities in some grand illusion of oneness of so called Bharat Mata.Kudos Doc
BTW Doc you are a bright man, I suspect their is no way in hell you believe Marris and Marathis are one and the same. Kudos and regards Doc

Bro I'm not a sanghi. But I am a Maratha. And what I'm telling you about the Marri is chronicled fact, with lineages and family trees. Not Bugtis. Or any of the other tribes.

The Marri are ours.

It was delicious irony that later on through the sands of time, brother fought brother at the fort of Kahun.

Our Maratha regiment is the oldest regiment with painstakingly chronicled history. Right here in Poona. And we have a road named Kahun Road to honour those brave soldiers, fighting thousands of kilometres away from home.

And fighting whom?

The Marri tribesmen!!!!!!! Now fully Muslim and Balochified ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[lastofthepatriots]

@DESERT FIGHTER

Can you give information regarding your tribe?

Is what the fire hopper saying true?

 

[padamchen]

Gotya cuddling again.

Get married. Have kids. Getting old ....

Want the parents of your child's classmates thinking you to be his grandpop?

Cheers, Doc

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Gotya cuddling again.

Get married. Have kids. Getting old ....

Want the parents of your child's classmates thinking you to be his grandpop?

Cheers, Doc

I imagine you sitting on a vertical cucumber, when you write such self contrived drivel at a meek attempt to sound witty.

 

[padamchen]

@django

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=h-k2AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=siege+of+kahun&source=bl&ots=KbRZ2Dipl_&sig=J7quQyzCoQV2a9S0ijGzLKE2Vz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKxsLXqKnXAhXFbiYKHcCHA_0Q6AEIRTAJ#v=onepage&q=siege of kahun&f=false

Brilliant.

Kahun Road, Pune Camp ...

Cheers, Doc

 

[django]

Russland comes from Rishi
Taj Mahal comes from Tejo Mahalaya
Christianity comes from Krishna Neeti (Rules of Krishna)
Vatican comes from Vatika (general House)


I could go on and on


BTW This is all crazy, and contributes heavily to the utter historical ignorance of the affluent upper middle class of India


It is all down to PN Oak...Hindus have an incorrigible fondness for his utter gutter trash
His son Nilkanth Oak seems to have garnered a sizeable following in the Indian Internet crowd

Totally concur and well said...very well said.Kudos sir

Bro I'm not a sanghi. But I am a Maratha. And what I'm telling you about the Marri is chronicled fact, with lineages and family trees. Not Bugtis. Or any of the other tribes.
The Marri are ours.

Just like Atlantis, Aztecs, Mayans,,,,,,Indo-European civilizations, I am sure those claiming Saxena as Saxons have chronicled so-called lineages, it is sheer fairytale,,,,, have you even met a Marri??? They are Iranic looking folk, who have not an iota of Maratha about them, definitely not your quintessential Ganga folks and you are incorrect Bharatis are also claiming Bugtis and other Baloch tribes as Maratha, just do a google search.Kudos Doc
BTW doc I am not a Baloch, but the magnitude of this nonsense being perpetuated by Bharati nationalists compelled me to respond.Kudos once again

 

[padamchen]

not a single answer of 16 question, again giving British/Mellech mambo-mambo who were outsiders for us.

my doubts are cleared.




I rather be Proud Dalit than self hating Muslim jat who have to invent illegitimate Fathers to hide his inferior background.

I dont care about personal insults, only losers do that when they run out of arguments and proofs.

i was just out because i dont want to get addicted to this forum. i crave Balanced lifestyle with equal time for all activities including forming, playing outside, going out with my friends and do pooja, learn history etc.


how can we belive that Kshatriya claim of your people is real ? how your tribe is different from Rajput kshatriyas ?

it's pretty ironic that you claim Kshatriya origin as you are the one who frequently makes claims that Rajputs are not kshatriyas.



Vaidhs are considered Brahmins in North As Far as i know.

Baidya[1] or Vaidya[2] is a Hindu caste community of Bengal. The Baidyas have generally claimed Brahmin status,[3] but some have been associated with the Ambashtha caste or sub-caste.[4] In the pre-colonial era of Bengal, Baidyas were regarded as the highest Hindu castes along with Brahmins and Kayasthas.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baidya



i personally believe based on my own research that Awans were Indo-Aryan inhabitants of Afghanistan before pasterns and other eastern iranic groups conquered it. if now whole afghanistan than KPK for sure.

or you guys can be some west asian tribe of even Iranic tribe that got desified when settled in extreme north west corner of Punjab. but as most of your tribesman are settled in Border region of Afghanistan, i personally believe you are Indo-Aryan Afghans who migrated to Punjab at some point in history. even pashtuns agree or believe that you guys are an Afghan tribe.

please tell us more about your ancestors.


large number of Haryanvi Jats have Malik Gotra/surname.



you two are still fighting.

as an parsee with persian lineage do you accept those people who got balochified ?

One Khandiya Parsi (Indic mother mixed blood pall bearer) is more Persian than a village of Marri Baloch ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

not a single answer of 16 question, again giving British/Mellech mambo-mambo who were outsiders for us.

my doubts are cleared.

Do not judge, or you will be judged. Honestly speaking, can a good puja-offering Rajput of good family in India answer all these? I doubt it!

I rather be Proud Dalit than self hating Muslim jat who have to invent illegitimate Fathers to hide his inferior background.

I dont care about personal insults, only losers do that when they run out of arguments and proofs.

i was just out because i dont want to get addicted to this forum. i crave Balanced lifestyle with equal time for all activities including forming, playing outside, going out with my friends and do pooja, learn history etc.

My personal advice - free of cost, and therefore all the more readily available to you to reject at will - is not to counter a religious or caste-based appellation with another, but to prove yourself.

The decision is yours.

how can we belive that Kshatriya claim of your people is real ? how your tribe is different from Rajput kshatriyas ?

Both this and the next question have more to do with ethnography than we wish to admit.

Many tribes and fighting groups were overwhelmed by iron-weapon wielding tribes and groups from the north-west, gradually working their way down the Ganges Valley from around 1300 BC to 800 BC (both dates to be read as very tentative approximations). These tribes and fighting groups could not be given Kshatriya status; in fact, they had to be removed as far as possible from any possibility of taking power and ruling; their past background as soldiers made them dangerous rivals for the similar positions in society among the incoming population. For that reason, they were debased and put down as low as the lowest. A Bengali nursery rhyme for very small children has the words

Aga dom baga dom ghora dom shaaje

The vanguard, the tiger warriors, the cavalry move on parade

Doms were originally troopers, and were pushed down as far as was possible, made into handlers of the dead, a position so terrifying to the ordinary citizen that it was guaranteed that they would be despised and feared, and never allowed to re-enter society, so never pose a threat to the new ruling classes.

it's pretty ironic that you claim Kshatriya origin as you are the one who frequently makes claims that Rajputs are not kshatriyas.

There is no contradiction. One set, the Rajputs, were tribals elevated to a prominent position in Hindu hierarchy, the other set, the tribals and the professional warriors of old days, were debased and formed the shudra element, but remembrance of their older status made people refer to them as 'kshatriya' of some sort.

Vaidhs are considered Brahmins in North As Far as i know.

Baidya[1] or Vaidya[2] is a Hindu caste community of Bengal. The Baidyas have generally claimed Brahmin status,[3] but some have been associated with the Ambashtha caste or sub-caste.[4] In the pre-colonial era of Bengal, Baidyas were regarded as the highest Hindu castes along with Brahmins and Kayasthas.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baidya

Yes, they are claimed as Brahmins, but we don't wish to use these sorts of things. There are several origin myths; one is of the debasement of Brahmin physicians because they went into the houses of all, to treat the sick. The other is of mixed caste descendants, giving us the Ambastha sub-caste.

i personally believe based on my own research that Awans were Indo-Aryan inhabitants of Afghanistan before pasterns and other eastern iranic groups conquered it. if now whole afghanistan than KPK for sure.

or you guys can be some west asian tribe of even Iranic tribe that got desified when settled in extreme north west corner of Punjab. but as most of your tribesman are settled in Border region of Afghanistan, i personally believe you are Indo-Aryan Afghans who migrated to Punjab at some point in history. even pashtuns agree or believe that you guys are an Afghan tribe.

please tell us more about your ancestors.


large number of Haryanvi Jats have Malik Gotra/surname.



you two are still fighting.

as an parsee with persian lineage do you accept those people who got balochified ?

 

[Brahmarshi]

Do not judge, or you will be judged. Honestly speaking, can a good puja-offering Rajput of good family in India answer all these? I doubt it!

yep, you have no idea joe how much these info meters to Real Rajputs of Rajatshan, Gujarat, Malwa and UP. they have specific lineage of pandits and Brahmins. (Rajgor pesents for entire clan ,Rajguru and Rajpurohit in case of Royal family) to write their family history and verify and prove their lineages.

My personal advice - free of cost, and therefore all the more readily available to you to reject at will - is not to counter a religious or caste-based appellation with another, but to prove yourself.

The decision is yours.

i can prove my ancestry and my lieage. take my parikhs if you (or anybody else) want to verify my claims. just my photo i uploaded here is enough to verify my claim.

Both this and the next question have more to do with ethnography than we wish to admit.

Many tribes and fighting groups were overwhelmed by iron-weapon wielding tribes and groups from the north-west, gradually working their way down the Ganges Valley from around 1300 BC to 800 BC (both dates to be read as very tentative approximations). These tribes and fighting groups could not be given Kshatriya status; in fact, they had to be removed as far as possible from any possibility of taking power and ruling; their past background as soldiers made them dangerous rivals for the similar positions in society among the incoming population. For that reason, they were debased and put down as low as the lowest. A Bengali nursery rhyme for very small children has the words

agreed, pathan colonies all over Up and bihar is latest example of migration pattern you mentioned above.

Yes, they are claimed as Brahmins, but we don't wish to use these sorts of things. There are several origin myths; one is of the debasement of Brahmin physicians because they went into the houses of all, to treat the sick. The other is of mixed caste descendants, giving us the Ambastha sub-caste.

in Gujarat, Maharashtra and Rajasthan Baidh/Vaidh are considered 100% Brahmins so sir joe i have no idea why Bengali Baidh dont consider themselves brahmins.

One Khandiya Parsi (Indic mother mixed blood pall bearer) is more Persian than a village of Marri Baloch ....

Cheers, Doc

nice.

 

[django]

Our Maratha regiment is the oldest regiment with painstakingly chronicled history. Right here in Poona. And we have a road named Kahun Road to honour those brave soldiers, fighting thousands of kilometres away from home.
And fighting whom?
The Marri tribesmen!!!!!!! Now fully Muslim and Balochified ....

Let us agree to disagree on this one, fables by maratha charlatans are not enough to convince me (not nearly) doc.Kudos doc

 

[padamchen]

yep, you have no idea joe how much these info meters to Real Rajputs of Rajatshan, Gujarat, Malwa and UP. they have specific lineage of pandits and Brahmins. (Rajgor pesents for entire clan ,Rajguru and Rajpurohit in case of Royal family) to write their family history and verify and prove their lineages.



i can prove my ancestry and my lieage. take my parikhs if you (or anybody else) want to verify my claims. just my photo i uploaded here is enough to verify my claim.





agreed, pathan colonies all over Up and bihar is latest example of migration pattern you mentioned above.




in Gujarat, Maharashtra and Rajasthan Baidh/Vaidh are considered 100% Brahmins so sir joe i have no idea why Bengali Baidh dont consider themselves brahmins.


nice.

I'll be honest. I'm a racialist. Not racist.

But when guys get racist -and their racism is based on false claims, something inside me snaps.

The results are less than pretty ....

Cheers, Doc