The Need for Greater Pakistan

[Sine Nomine]

It's not...u dont have to go too far back...just look at the recent examples of US and USSR before that. It's difficult to fight an enemy that's spread out, blends in with civilians...where gun culture is the norm and the terrain is difficult.

During both episodes,they got massive support during USSR episode almost whole West was behind their back.

 

[fitpOsitive]

There are 2 types of Afghan
1) Pashtun has some sense of humanity and islam.
2) Non pashtun animals. With no sense of humanity/islam. Ready to sell his soul to gora. Along with usual vice of bacha bazi(naoozbillah).

And you don't know anything abt Afghanistan.

 

[Cookie Monster]

During both episodes,they got massive support during USSR episode almost whole West was behind their back.

And in this theoretical scenario they wont get massive funding? Just off the top of my head I can think of three countries who would be opening their coffers.

1) India - traditional enemy: Already tries to fund elements like BLA, which are far weaker in comparison. If Pak takes over Afghanistan, funding the resistance would be a far more promising option for them and they would jump at the chance.

2) Israel - indirectly an enemy: Israel isn't too thrilled that Pak has nuclear weapons and the means to deliver it at that range too. They have tried everything to stop Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Iran from acquiring similar capability...the only country that they couldn't stop was Pak. Although Pak has never threatened Israel, Israel is still uneasy and would jump at any chance to indirectly somehow neutralize any potential threat from Pak.

3) Iran - not traditionally an enemy but in this theoretical scenario where Pak took Sistan Balochistan during their conflict with the US...Iran would be furious at Pak. Therefore they would also try to do anything and everything to get back at Pak.

So yes...there would be plenty of funding, weapons, and training available to a large portion of Afghans if they choose to go the separatist route.

 

[Sine Nomine]

And in this theoretical scenario they wont get massive funding? Just off the top of my head I can think of three countries who would be opening their coffers.

1) India - traditional enemy: Already tries to fund elements like BLA, which are far weaker in comparison. If Pak takes over Afghanistan, funding the resistance would be a far more promising option for them and they would jump at the chance.

2) Israel - indirectly an enemy: Israel isn't too thrilled that Pak has nuclear weapons and the means to deliver it at that range too. They have tried everything to stop Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Iran from acquiring similar capability...the only country that they couldn't stop was Pak. Although Pak has never threatened Israel, Israel is still uneasy and would jump at any chance to indirectly somehow neutralize any potential threat from Pak.

3) Iran - not traditionally an enemy but in this theoretical scenario where Pak took Sistan Balochistan during their conflict with the US...Iran would be furious at Pak. Therefore they would also try to do anything and everything to get back at Pak.

So yes...there would be plenty of funding, weapons, and training available to a large portion of Afghans if they so choose to go the separatist route.

None of them has border with Afg,you attack Govt you have no where to hide,regroup,resupply and train.Airstrikes won't let that happen.
In both of given cases,fighters were enjoying more support then anyone can think,safe bases for regrouping,training and resupplying,without fear of air strikes.
No one can simply pull that again.Pakistan has strong foot print in Afg,US even failed to dislodge it in 2 decades.

 

[Pakistansdefender]

There is a point when you either grow big, or you lose. Pakistan is facing threats from multiple axis, against enemies that are much bigger than her. We have India, with a massive landmass and population to the East. Afghanistan has become a constant source of enmity, terrorism and drugs. And recently we saw the face of Iran against us. The question is, is it time for Pakistan to grow bigger to face these challenges effectively?

The Afghan problem can be effectively solved, and a land route created to central asia, if the bordering Afghan territory is turned into tribaly administered territories, similar to FATA. In the coming war with Iran, Sistan-Balochistan can be taken as a buffer between the coming civil commotion and Pakistan, giving Pakistan access to oil and strategic Persian gulf location.

Taking these border lands would increase Pakistan's territory by about 25%, and give it unique access to Central Asia and the Persian Gulf. The emergent state would be stronger and be able to focus far more of its military resources against any threats from India. It would also save Pakistan from the scourge of terrorism that has bred, and will bread, in these adjacent territories.

The impending US attack on Iran would mean that the US would be happy to have a country take care of Sistan-Balochistan, reducing the difficulty the allies will face against Iran's attempts to block the Persian Gulf. Meanwhile, on the Afghanistan side, in direct clashes, the Afghan Army and administration would be decimated, which would inevitably help the Taliban potentially taking over an even more significant portion of the territories.

If we are brave enough, this could create a state that would be far more defendable and sustainable than what we have right now.

@MastanKhan

The iranian balochistan can rebel against shia Iran and join a sunnu Pakistan .
And the phustun lands could be merged in Pakistan as a province while tajik, uzbik, Turkmen would be given to the respective countries.

But dear one dreams of these kinda plans or things when you have booming economy..
Having nothing in your pockets and thinking of buying the world is really funny..
The best option we have is to close our doors, shut us in and hope the war would pass without looking at us.

Besides iranians are not stupid. They would never allow war to happen.. They would bow to us but they cannot let them destroy their country. Unlike us all of them love their country.

 

[Armchair]

I am not proposing forcing ourselves unto Afghans, I believe many tribal jirgas will want to join Pakistan of their own volition. Tribal jirgas can decide on their own based on consensus. Its a win-win situation for both sides. They can get access to safety, proper schools, infrastructure, electricity, etc. And we can get a buffer zone for ourselves and an expanded strategic depth, and natural resources.

As regards Iran - it would be destroyed like Iraq and Syria by the US and allies. We will simply be protecting the Sistan-Baluchestan part. Iran at that point would either not exist as a coherent country or even if it did, would not have the ability to fight anyone other than their arch enemies, the US and its allies.

They also cannot support an insurgency as the local population is Sunni.

 

[nahtanbob]

There is a point when you either grow big, or you lose. Pakistan is facing threats from multiple axis, against enemies that are much bigger than her. We have India, with a massive landmass and population to the East. Afghanistan has become a constant source of enmity, terrorism and drugs. And recently we saw the face of Iran against us. The question is, is it time for Pakistan to grow bigger to face these challenges effectively?

The Afghan problem can be effectively solved, and a land route created to central asia, if the bordering Afghan territory is turned into tribaly administered territories, similar to FATA. In the coming war with Iran, Sistan-Balochistan can be taken as a buffer between the coming civil commotion and Pakistan, giving Pakistan access to oil and strategic Persian gulf location.

Taking these border lands would increase Pakistan's territory by about 25%, and give it unique access to Central Asia and the Persian Gulf. The emergent state would be stronger and be able to focus far more of its military resources against any threats from India. It would also save Pakistan from the scourge of terrorism that has bred, and will bread, in these adjacent territories.

The impending US attack on Iran would mean that the US would be happy to have a country take care of Sistan-Balochistan, reducing the difficulty the allies will face against Iran's attempts to block the Persian Gulf. Meanwhile, on the Afghanistan side, in direct clashes, the Afghan Army and administration would be decimated, which would inevitably help the Taliban potentially taking over an even more significant portion of the territories.

If we are brave enough, this could create a state that would be far more defendable and sustainable than what we have right now.

@MastanKhan

Exactly what does land route to Central Asia achieve ?

 

[Armchair]

Exactly what does land route to Central Asia achieve ?

It gives us access to new markets, and gives them access to a warm water port. It creates our own silk route, a Pakistani version of the Chinese belt and road policy.

 

[jamal18]

If you were a little more ambitious you could get access to the Mediterranean

I'd go for the Baltic!

 

[Armchair]

Asalam u alaikum
Sir, i want to add some points in this topic. If we look on world super powers history.Roman Empire, Bazentinian Empire,Islamic Madina Caliphate, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, British Empire all you see, start from a weak state which was deliberately under constant attack of strong neighbors.but when they not only retaliation but also start counter attack and bring the war into opponent's territory. That is turning point in those Empires history which make them super powers. If you will only keep defending once the time will came opponent will take over you.but if you retaliate and bring the war to the home of attacking nation.
When you attack the agressor that will boost your confidence and your enemy start feeling fear. That's the moment you start wining and enemy state start loosing,and you earn the respect, resources, Technics,and expansion of state area.
And i think if we look around us that is the perfect time to act upon this idea.
Afghanistan shattered afghan govt has no control even in kabul no is ready to listen ashraf ghani , Iranians are under U.S threats.and all middle east is against the iran.
Now plan how to take over.
Strong pushing towards afghan war lords put them in a national jirga and put pressure on each and every one of jirga members by wealth, by weapons, bribes,or some of them could be black mail so through this jirga can vote in favour of confederation with Pakistan than we can slowly take over the powers of war lord and absorb the afghan in our society.start the education, work , simplify there basic needs and give them confidence that they are not under suppression but they are part of Pakistan state and equal citizens.
On iranian side game is different just visit the all GCC capitals meet with all Sheikhs, Emirs and Khalifas and exploit their weakness against the Iranians and made them scared of Iranians regime.
Then made them realize that we can finish your all problems , Iranians involvement in Syria, Iraq, Yeman, Bahrain. If Iranians will collapse your all headache will gone. So Pakistan can fight a war your behalf and all of you have to support Pakistan.
1. Pakistan all loan will be paid off by KSA, UAE and Bahrain.
2. Just hand over your all fighter jets to PAF all Typhoon, Tornadoes, F15,F 16, Rafale. 3.And lobby to US that you are fighting US war milk US and Israel as much as you can.
And start attack on Iranians and blow their military installation like Havoc. Use full air power to destroy iranian and drop the para troopers.lay the ground forces all along the territory and attack the bandar abbas, bandar khameini, chahbahar.cut their all air and sea lines took area till all oil and gas fields.

Walaikum assallam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu. I personally don't feel we should attack Iran as an attack-dog of the US. Instead, we stay relatively neutral until Iran becomes a dysfunctional state that is unable to defend or govern itself. Then walk in and take Sistan Baluchestan.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I know very well how much of SAINTS they actually were.

People are only convinced with the outwardly veil of peace, love, nirvana BS. But when you read their actual books you find glorification of the graves, calling out and asking from dead buried in graves, worshipping the graves, "saints" calling themselves "annal haq" which is a statement exclusive to Allah as he said these words only for himself in Quran. Making men so called "saints" intermediaries between oneself and God. Saints claiming all sorts of wild and crazy things that I have become a vizier of Rasool Allah S.A.W. And just a whole lot of made up mumbo jumbo which has nothing to do with Quran, hadis and sunnah.

A lot of it is only using the label of Imam Abu Hanifa when the actual teachings being followed are that of Ibn Arabi and the teachings found in Kashf al mahjoob written by Ali Usman Hajveri.

Most dangerous tho is the made in India Islam of Deobandis(Ashraf Ali Thanvi) and Sheikh Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi. These guys have written books that include clear cut shirk/kuffar in form of SIHR/MAGIC instructing people how to split a husband and wife. As proven from ayaat of Surah al Baqarah verses 102:"...they learn how to split a husband and wife..." among other weird spells and chillas.

In Summary:
Sufism and it's many weird/perverted branches are nothing but a ridiculous attempt by Iblees and his human agents to create a religion within Islam along lines of Jewish Kabbalah. Where the jewish Kabbalists believe that the Torah, Talmud, Zohar etc etc have a secret hidden knowledge in addition to that revealed by God in these books.

And Kabbalah is essentially magic. The sufis/peers/faqirs MOSTLY use the same Kabbalah/Jewish magic system i.e numerology which associates a number with every letter of hebrew/arabic(in case of sufi/Indian/Pakistani magician/peer).

Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi magician who is not sufi/deobandi/barelvi/shia or is at a very high degree of these same sects. Those ones have indications of satanic symbols and worship of satan.

The desecration of Quran, glorifying jin kind, calling other than Allah for help is common between the two types.

I really could go on n on n on n on about these "SAINTS". Because I have been through this avenue in life. My whole family has suffered at hands of these "saints".
I pray no one falls into this kuffar and shirk. As they are now boldly teaching people how to do magic openly using google, youtube etc and labelling their evil as noori, roohani BS.

u r generalizing non pashtuns in Afghanistan ...the fact is Majority muslims saints migrated from non pashtun areas of present day afghanistan to modern day Pakistan to spread Islam

 

[Yankee-stani]

The Easier Route is to make Afghanistan as vassal state a merger wont happen in our lifetime they are landlocked country anyways so they need us more than them we just need Yankee out and Indians out and make sure the Taliban dont do anything stupid like they did in late 1990s

To some people Central Asia is barren and worthless however the Indians have set up shop by buying uranium in bulk from Kazakhstan,Uzbekistan, and setting up a small look up post in Tajikstan they even has fiber optic link in Mongolia we need to be more proactive there

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Aik Pakistan nahi sambhala jasakta aur aap greater Pakistan ki baat kar rahe hoo

 

[Cookie Monster]

None of them has border with Afg,you attack Govt you have no where to hide,regroup,resupply and train.Airstrikes won't let that happen.
In both of given cases,fighters were enjoying more support then anyone can think,safe bases for regrouping,training and resupplying,without fear of air strikes.
No one can simply pull that again.Pakistan has strong foot print in Afg,US even failed to dislodge it in 2 decades.

Afghanistan has terrain in certain areas which is remote and mountainous. The rag tag militias dont exactly travel like an armored brigade that one can monitor from a drone and then bomb. With US and NATO presence in huge numbers for over a decade, they were unable to root out the Taliban from Afghanistan.

As for sharing a border and being able to regroup and resupply...having safe bases across the border...there's Iran right there. If Pak takes over Afghanistan and Sistan Balochistan...Iran borders all that. So in addition to having terrain advantage they will also have a border to slip through back and forth much like the Taliban were doing between Pak/Afghan border.

 

[jamal18]

200 million Pakistanis not enough, you need more?