The Need for Greater Pakistan

[Pakhtoon yum]

You do realize that absorbing these millions of people means that you have to fund their social services like education, healthcare, jobs, infrastructure etc... Can the Pakistani economy handle this? If they can't find any of this, it will lead to further unrest.

You do realize that along with the people we absorb their economy too right?

 

[HAIDER]

Jitna hai, pelhe itna sambhal lo.

lolzzzzzzz...

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

There is a point when you either grow big, or you lose. Pakistan is facing threats from multiple axis, against enemies that are much bigger than her. We have India, with a massive landmass and population to the East. Afghanistan has become a constant source of enmity, terrorism and drugs. And recently we saw the face of Iran against us. The question is, is it time for Pakistan to grow bigger to face these challenges effectively?

The Afghan problem can be effectively solved, and a land route created to central asia, if the bordering Afghan territory is turned into tribaly administered territories, similar to FATA. In the coming war with Iran, Sistan-Balochistan can be taken as a buffer between the coming civil commotion and Pakistan, giving Pakistan access to oil and strategic Persian gulf location.

Taking these border lands would increase Pakistan's territory by about 25%, and give it unique access to Central Asia and the Persian Gulf. The emergent state would be stronger and be able to focus far more of its military resources against any threats from India. It would also save Pakistan from the scourge of terrorism that has bred, and will bread, in these adjacent territories.

The impending US attack on Iran would mean that the US would be happy to have a country take care of Sistan-Balochistan, reducing the difficulty the allies will face against Iran's attempts to block the Persian Gulf. Meanwhile, on the Afghanistan side, in direct clashes, the Afghan Army and administration would be decimated, which would inevitably help the Taliban potentially taking over an even more significant portion of the territories.

If we are brave enough, this could create a state that would be far more defendable and sustainable than what we have right now.

@MastanKhan

You suggest we become agressors against our neighbours like germany did before it broke up? Or like soviet union did before collapsing?

You grow big with consent and progress. This is most childish post iv ever seen on this forum

 

[War Historian]

There is a point when you either grow big, or you lose. Pakistan is facing threats from multiple axis, against enemies that are much bigger than her. We have India, with a massive landmass and population to the East. Afghanistan has become a constant source of enmity, terrorism and drugs. And recently we saw the face of Iran against us. The question is, is it time for Pakistan to grow bigger to face these challenges effectively?

The Afghan problem can be effectively solved, and a land route created to central asia, if the bordering Afghan territory is turned into tribaly administered territories, similar to FATA. In the coming war with Iran, Sistan-Balochistan can be taken as a buffer between the coming civil commotion and Pakistan, giving Pakistan access to oil and strategic Persian gulf location.

Taking these border lands would increase Pakistan's territory by about 25%, and give it unique access to Central Asia and the Persian Gulf. The emergent state would be stronger and be able to focus far more of its military resources against any threats from India. It would also save Pakistan from the scourge of terrorism that has bred, and will bread, in these adjacent territories.

The impending US attack on Iran would mean that the US would be happy to have a country take care of Sistan-Balochistan, reducing the difficulty the allies will face against Iran's attempts to block the Persian Gulf. Meanwhile, on the Afghanistan side, in direct clashes, the Afghan Army and administration would be decimated, which would inevitably help the Taliban potentially taking over an even more significant portion of the territories.

If we are brave enough, this could create a state that would be far more defendable and sustainable than what we have right now.

@MastanKhan

Asalam u alaikum
Sir, i want to add some points in this topic. If we look on world super powers history.Roman Empire, Bazentinian Empire,Islamic Madina Caliphate, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, British Empire all you see, start from a weak state which was deliberately under constant attack of strong neighbors.but when they not only retaliation but also start counter attack and bring the war into opponent's territory. That is turning point in those Empires history which make them super powers. If you will only keep defending once the time will came opponent will take over you.but if you retaliate and bring the war to the home of attacking nation.
When you attack the agressor that will boost your confidence and your enemy start feeling fear. That's the moment you start wining and enemy state start loosing,and you earn the respect, resources, Technics,and expansion of state area.
And i think if we look around us that is the perfect time to act upon this idea.
Afghanistan shattered afghan govt has no control even in kabul no is ready to listen ashraf ghani , Iranians are under U.S threats.and all middle east is against the iran.
Now plan how to take over.
Strong pushing towards afghan war lords put them in a national jirga and put pressure on each and every one of jirga members by wealth, by weapons, bribes,or some of them could be black mail so through this jirga can vote in favour of confederation with Pakistan than we can slowly take over the powers of war lord and absorb the afghan in our society.start the education, work , simplify there basic needs and give them confidence that they are not under suppression but they are part of Pakistan state and equal citizens.
On iranian side game is different just visit the all GCC capitals meet with all Sheikhs, Emirs and Khalifas and exploit their weakness against the Iranians and made them scared of Iranians regime.
Then made them realize that we can finish your all problems , Iranians involvement in Syria, Iraq, Yeman, Bahrain. If Iranians will collapse your all headache will gone. So Pakistan can fight a war your behalf and all of you have to support Pakistan.
1. Pakistan all loan will be paid off by KSA, UAE and Bahrain.
2. Just hand over your all fighter jets to PAF all Typhoon, Tornadoes, F15,F 16, Rafale. 3.And lobby to US that you are fighting US war milk US and Israel as much as you can.
And start attack on Iranians and blow their military installation like Havoc. Use full air power to destroy iranian and drop the para troopers.lay the ground forces all along the territory and attack the bandar abbas, bandar khameini, chahbahar.cut their all air and sea lines took area till all oil and gas fields.

 

[KhanBaba2]

and as an indian you could be the most ambitious person in the world but still would not dare cross the Indus.

It is the benevolence of our neighbours to the West that we have what we have.

 

[El Sidd]

It is the benevolence of our neighbours to the West that we have what we have.

Be content with what is given to you then.

 

[Wow]

i would like a Pakistani empire but please get our sh$t together first

No, mass migration, Soviet and Greek style

i would love to see our pukhtoon brothers and sisters living peacefully under one flag Pakistani flag of course

 

[Wa Muhammada]

There is a point when you either grow big, or you lose. Pakistan is facing threats from multiple axis, against enemies that are much bigger than her. We have India, with a massive landmass and population to the East. Afghanistan has become a constant source of enmity, terrorism and drugs. And recently we saw the face of Iran against us. The question is, is it time for Pakistan to grow bigger to face these challenges effectively?

The Afghan problem can be effectively solved, and a land route created to central asia, if the bordering Afghan territory is turned into tribaly administered territories, similar to FATA. In the coming war with Iran, Sistan-Balochistan can be taken as a buffer between the coming civil commotion and Pakistan, giving Pakistan access to oil and strategic Persian gulf location.

Taking these border lands would increase Pakistan's territory by about 25%, and give it unique access to Central Asia and the Persian Gulf. The emergent state would be stronger and be able to focus far more of its military resources against any threats from India. It would also save Pakistan from the scourge of terrorism that has bred, and will bread, in these adjacent territories.

The impending US attack on Iran would mean that the US would be happy to have a country take care of Sistan-Balochistan, reducing the difficulty the allies will face against Iran's attempts to block the Persian Gulf. Meanwhile, on the Afghanistan side, in direct clashes, the Afghan Army and administration would be decimated, which would inevitably help the Taliban potentially taking over an even more significant portion of the territories.

If we are brave enough, this could create a state that would be far more defendable and sustainable than what we have right now.

@MastanKhan

Pehla aa ta sambhaal lo

 

[Cookie Monster]

What would you do with the restless, savage, terror prone Afghan population?

Mass extermination?

While it would be useful to have more landmass and more resources...it would be counter productive in terms of security. Afghanis would resist as they have done to far more powerful countries, meaning constant strife and a state of civil war essentially. Taking Sistan Balochistan would create animosity with Iran. So in the end Pak would be left with an enemy to the East...an enemy to the West and massive internal unrest. Not to mention more hungry mouths to feed(Afghans) and more need for development in Afghanistan and Sistan Balochistan. The biggest blunder of all besides having enemies on both sides is that both of those enemies also have access to sea...so they can work together and effectively blockade Pak from both sides. In short ur theoretical proposal has more drawbacks than benefits.

Access to CAR is possible through China or Afghanistan without having to invade Afghanistan. As for more resources and landmass...where has Pakistan's current resources gotten it? Would anything change with more resources? Only the corrupt elite would get fatter and nothing else.

 

[313ghazi]

There is a lot of big talk, which isn't always a bad thing, but lets get some perspective on this.

Look around you, the world doesn't take power through taking land anymore. The real power is through trade and the political influence it buys. The EU is a good example. If the Europeans focused the EU project on betterment of it's people rather than just it's elite, it could have been a bona fida superpower by now. Rather than thinking about taking land and moving people, think about trade leading to economic, social and eventually political integration.

Assume for a minute we did do it the old day - what incentive is there for an Afghan pukhtun to become a Pakistani? Think about the tribal leaders and warlords. As Afghans, they're higher up the pecking order. As part of a government structure (being under the Mayor of Kabul, or under a "Greater Pakistan"), these people are pushed down the pecking order because another layer of governance gets a say over them. There has to be an incentive, development, local government models to keep them influential, trust in central government. right now we can't keep the lights on, let alone offer an incentive and in terms of political leadership, the tail is wagging the dog.

Build your own country, have something to bring to the table, then rightfully work for unity amongst neighbours. There is no reason for the Durand line to be the border between our nations forever, but there has to be mutual agreement in moving it/discarding it.

Anything else is looking to get dragged down into a quagmire and then having the Indians attack you from behind.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Afghan-Pakistan merger will happen naturally over time, no need to force it or it will backfire. It is the Kismat of our region.

Allama Iqbal constantly reminded us of this fact.

Mughals used Afghanistan as a base to launch attacks against the British, Sikhs, and other invaders when they lost the Pakistan area.

The history of this region is connected, and it will return to its natural state.

As for Sistan-Baluchistan, those are our relatives, agreed. However confronting Iran about it would invite more negativity and hostility.

We should not be a party to injustice against our neighbor, as the fate of nations is not made by such tricks.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

So, case in point! Before Nadir Shah took over Persia... a small tribe(Hotak) from Kandahar region defeated the Safavid Dynasty... For almost 30 years than controlled most of southern Afghanistan and all of Persia and Pakistani Balochistan. When Babur left his native Ferghana valley he didn't have huge military but one thing he did later that is even more interesting, he asked all those soldiers to return back who didn't believe in his cause and still won! Nay sayer will not win you anything!!!

 

[Sine Nomine]

Afghanis would resist as they have done to far more powerful countries, meaning constant strife and a state of civil war essentially.

That's really over hyped myth.

 

[Cookie Monster]

That's really over hyped myth.

It's not...u dont have to go too far back...just look at the recent examples of US and USSR before that. It's difficult to fight an enemy that's spread out, blends in with civilians...where gun culture is the norm and the terrain is difficult.

 

[Sunan]

We can do this But need strong Political leadership and years of continuous political efforts.I think it's possible?but process will be slow we need lots of patience.