The Myth of the Shi'a Crescent

[The SiLent crY]

Islam does not belong in Iran. I don't really care about its presence in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but Islamic culture and values completely contradict Iranian values. These two cultures are not comparable nor intermingle able. Islam has destroyed Iran; if SOORNA the apologist argues otherwise, he is either deliberately lying or does not know much about the history of Islam in Iran.

Based on what Islam is just limited in Arabian countries not the whole world ?

Is Christianity or other divine religions just for 1 race or nationality ? I don't think so . Holy religions came to direct the whole world not 1 special race .

Islamic culture and values completely contradict Iranian values.

What are Iranian or the so called values ? ell me about them please .

I'm sure Persia ( Iran ) had rich culture and wise , honorable and just leaders like many other nations and no one can deny that but please name me a few of them here cos as far as I've read the history the so called Persian empire before Islam ( sassanids ) were far worse than barbarian tribes such as suebians , boiis , Saxons and etc in north Europe .

Barbarians at least had freedom and equality which could not be found in our country during Parthian and Sassanian empire .

This is one of my posts in this forum which might be helpful for you :

Let religion aside my friend .

one of the most important reasons that Parthian empire tore apart and got destroyed by Sassanians was Zoroastrianism . The Zoroastrianism which was a revolutionary religion and fought against injustice in late parthian era reached power and lost both it's color and way and little by little became a tool for late Sassanian spoiled kings to use it for fooling public and covering the injustice , corruption and the terrible class differences they had brought for the society no need to mention those long and costly wars that had made the country a garrison and poor people weak .


The spoiled Sassanian kings and Zoroastrianism ( the former revolutionary religion which had become a puppet in kings' hands and served them instead of seeking justice and peoples' right ) made that powerful and rich country that weak and vulnerable that some perverted people such as Mani and Mazdak with their bogus religions became a great threat for Sassanian empire that could end them sooner than Arabs .

The worst part was that the Sassanian empire that had killed and brought Roman emperors to knees and Zoroastrianism that was stronger and richer than ever that enjoyed Noblesse support and had lots of temples , farms etc under it's control led the country to the edge that Buddhism from the east , Islam from south west and Christianity from Eastern Roman empire borders were about to take the whole country which finally was done by Muslims .


The reason of fall of Sassanid empire was not in Arabian peninsula but in our own country .

Whether you like it or don't , This is a sad fact that our country was already destroyed by last Sassanian kings tough no one can deny Arabs' brutality in killing , enslaving , demolishing and looting .

These two cultures are not comparable nor intermingle able.

It was Islam ( during Prophet and Ali (a.s.) ) which brought equality , ended slavery and said no nation was better than the other .

AND you are right , cos the real Islamic culture not the perverted one by other caliphates was not comparable with Sassanian cruelty .

Islam has destroyed Iran

Islam didn't but the sassanians and after them the ones stole Ali's rightful place and used it against Islam itself . No one can deny the cruelty of other caliphates , The ones killed people , enslaved women and children , burned one of the biggest libraries of the world based on this sentence " we follow Qur'an not anything else " and dozens of other crimes .

if SOORNA the apologist argues otherwise, he is either deliberately lying or does not know much about the history of Islam in Iran

Judging people is not an honor . I respect your view about myself but simply don't accept it.

The presence of science during those days had nothing to do with Islam .In fact, it was a continuation of Persian Sassanid and Byzantine works on science and those scientific schools build in Baghdad was a directly imitated from Persia's Academy of Gundishapur

I agree with a part of what you said .

Muslims like anyone else before and after their age continued others science and improved them which was the same for Europeans who used Muslims' science .

The source was not just briefed in Romans and Sasanians but mainly Greeks and their scientific Assembly which ( the sources ) were indirectly translated to syriani and latin and came in muslims' hands .The other part of science came from Alexandria and it's Scientific Assembly ( School of Alexandria ) .

The sciences that Muslims took from Greeks were Math , Astronomy , Medicine and Natural sciences .

Muslims' works shows that they used Hippocrates , Galen , Pythagoras and Aristotle a lot . Its important to know that the first connection between Muslims and Greek science was not from translation but medics , The medics that lived in Greek lands during occupation but after choosing Damascus as Capital the connection was easier .

The other part of science came from India . In early Abbasid era this connection was established and Muslims translated Indian Medical and Astronomy texts . In 154 a couple of Indian scientists came to Mansour ( an Abbasid Caliphate ) and there was a top rank astronomer among them , Mansour asked him to educate Muslim scientists which was done and since then Indian science enter Muslims world widely .

The other one was Iran specially Gondi shapur city school and hospital which great but you shouldn't forget Nestorians' role there who had come from Odsa school .

And it would be cool if you know that Greek nobles and Nestorians were teaching there and translated some of Greek books to Pahlavi that were later translated to Arabic .


There were dozens of Science Centers in muslim world such as Beit o l hekmah and Darol olama , Darol fatemioun in Egypt , and other Darol elms in other cities that both worked on science and translation
I see no need to prove that Muslims were number 1 in science in their age and if you need more rearch for Muslim scientists to get what they did .

Second, the boom in science was orchestrated by the Mu'tazila rulers of the Abbasids, and they argued that the Quran was created and that rationality stands above religion. Therefore, they were being seen as heretic by most of the Ulama, and till this day this view on this theological school still exist. Not considering the fact that there view of science and rationality was merely based on a Greek Aristotelian point of view. There justification of science was never based on Islam, nor did Islam form a motivation for those scientists to learn and discover. And when the Mu'tazila school fade away, science in Islamic countries fade away too

Some parts were answered above and the other one is not Islams' fault but crazy rulers who used religion as cover while were killing and torturing people and basing their kingdom on blood .

Perhaps you should ask yourself why not one significant post-Industrial revolution invention has been made by Muslims or in Islamic countries.

I will not be fit in 1 sentence to answer your question but it would be helpful if you tell me why have Muslim countries been under Colonialism and exploitation by westerns ( who are the civilized ones in your view ) for centuries .

It also helps if we know why are Muslim countries the only target of terrorism and instability .

I'm sure you'll get your last question's answer if you read Muslim world's history in the last 4 centuries . 

Perhaps you should considering to go to Saudi Arabia or Iraq, so you can actually follow their footsteps. Iran should not be a place for an Arabparast.

I'm sure the so called Arabparasts in Iran have done more than the fake nationalists like you who drink their bear with westerns and occasionally act like patriots behind computer .

Racism just brings you lower .

 

[Azizam]

It also helps if we know why are Muslim countries the only target of terrorism and instability .

Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suicide attacks per organization, 1983 to 2000.(according to Israel)[100]
Tamil Tigers171
Al-Shabaab>30
Hezbollah and Amal25
Other Lebanese groups25
Hamas22
PKK21
Islamic Jihad8
Chechen separatists7
Dawa (Kuwait)2
Egyptian Islamic Jihad1
al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya1
Armed Islamic Group of Algeria1

East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian Mujahideen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moro Islamic Liberation Front - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

India's Maoists: A new terror | The Economist

Stop spreading bullsh!t

 

[The SiLent crY]

It's not a myth, it's the truth. @Sam1980
Without your country, Iraqi people would have been united against terrorism and Iraq which has one of the most stunning civilization, smartest people would have progressed. Without your country, Syria would have been freed by now, without your country Lebanon would have been safe and much more developed. Without your country, Yemen would have been safer and people more united. The same applies on Bahrain and Afghanistan. You have spread misery all over the Middle East including your own country.

You'd better go to your section and share your multiple orgasms with your friends .

I'm sure Iran and it's proxies are not the guilty one in all the sh!t in ME but some brainwashed people like you who name beheading people , blowing them in suicide attacks, killing innocent guards in borders and having s e x with women Jihad and not only are proud of that but have orgasms when hearing such news too .

The problem is that you haven't changed after 14 whole centuries and you're exactly like your ancestors that betrayed the prophet before he was in his grave and killed every single one of his family to take power what had been taken from you after Islam's birth .

But don't worry cos your end will not be much different from Khawarijj . 

Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suicide attacks per organization, 1983 to 2000.(according to Israel)[100]
Tamil Tigers171
Al-Shabaab>30
Hezbollah and Amal25
Other Lebanese groups25
Hamas22
PKK21
Islamic Jihad8
Chechen separatists7
Dawa (Kuwait)2
Egyptian Islamic Jihad1
al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya1
Armed Islamic Group of Algeria1

East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian Mujahideen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moro Islamic Liberation Front - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

India's Maoists: A new terror | The Economist

Stop spreading bullsh!t

I'm sure reading your beloved UK history and their role might end your confusion here . This is for 1000th time that I say don't judge a religion based on what people do .

Apart from that I don't think Resistant groups in Lebanon and Palestine are guilty , They're doing what normal human does .

The American and Europeans think they're smart and people are fools , They did what the world will never see again , got more than 60 million innocent people killed , then created and shaped this unfair and sh!ty world on innocents' blood and now are talking about peace , beauty , love and civilization and expect others to accept that .



 

Intercession Hadith was based on Prophet Muhammad PBUH life where he personally interceded for someone (while alive). I don't see how you can ask men who are no longer here to intercede on your behalf. When someone dies that is it for them here and they go through their trial of the grave they cannot do nothing for the living.

I'm not a religious guy but according to the shias ,

Prophet , Imams and martyrs are alive .

There was a verse about not calling martyrs dead as they're always alive . and a couple of others in this matter that I don't remember the translation .

An Iranian can be helpful to improve my answer .

 

[Surenas]

Perhaps you should stop being an Islamophobic and a facist neo-Nazi.

Says the person who is following a religion that is famous for its women-hating character, and directly discriminate between believers and 'kuffars', using rhetorics like 'pigs and apes', and spread itself by death and destruction, as your own country was invaded by people who only knew deserts and how to rob caravans. Give me a frigging break.

I'm not a religious person, but even a blind man can see that Zoroastrianism, the religion of your ancestors, is superior on a moral, spiritual and cultural level than which Semite religion whatsoever.

 

[Surenas]

Based on what Islam is just limited in Arabian countries not the whole world ?

Its bases is the Arabian peninsula. There is where its origins are found, the cultural elements in its holy book originated and where you guys have to pray and take your pilgrimage to.

Is Christianity or other divine religions just for 1 race or nationality ? I don't think so . Holy religions came to direct the whole world not 1 special race .

Completely untrue. Even Christianity started by its predominately Jewish character, and even now Jews have a special place within Christianity.

What are Iranian or the so called values ? ell me about them please .

I'm sure Persia ( Iran ) had rich culture and wise , honorable and just leaders like many other nations and no one can deny that but please name me a few of them here cos as far as I've read the history the so called Persian empire before Islam ( sassanids ) were far worse than barbarian tribes such as suebians , boiis , Saxons and etc in north Europe .

Barbarians at least had freedom and equality which could not be found in our country during Parthian and Sassanian empire .

This is one of my posts in this forum which might be helpful for you:

Firstly, you again demonstrate your lack of knowledge of history. Those Germanic tribes were not more free than Persians. In fact, there society was characterized by tribalistic elements, as Afghanistan is today. Persians were culturally, scientifically and politically much more developed than which Germanic tribe whatsoever.

Second, when I am talking about Iranian culture, I am talking about the position of women, its opinion on fundamental things like morality, divinity and its social character. All these pre-Islamic Iranian values contradict Islamic culture, as Islam was merely based on its Arabic character. The way they treat women and the way we have treat women historically completely contradicts each other. The way they speak of 'infidels' and the punishment they connect to such 'sins' are completely alien to us.

It was Islam ( during Prophet and Ali (a.s.) ) which brought equality , ended slavery and said no nation was better than the other .

Haha, you seriously believe this? When Islam came in Iran, it did not improved the social position of Iranians. In fact, it constantly discriminated and segregated us, to such extent that we were only good for paying taxes (Jizya). Islam never ended slavery; in fact, in Islam slavery is permitted (with some conditions), and Zoroastrianism completely forbid it. Arabian (Islamic) slavery has even a greater and more barbarian history than Western slavery. Persians NEVER knew slavery to such extent before Islam.

AND you are right , cos the real Islamic culture not the perverted one by other caliphates was not comparable with Sassanian cruelty .

There was never a revolt within the Sassanid Empire in Iran, so you don't know what you are talking about.

in Iran have done more than the fake nationalists like you who drink their bear with westerns and occasionally act like patriots behind computer .

Racism just brings you lower .

First of all, beer originated in Iran. Second, fake nationalists like me are the one who are trying to preserve our historical identity, while Arabparast like you have given our country in the hands of Arab-worshipping mullahs.

 

[The SiLent crY]

Its bases is the Arabian peninsula. There is where its origins are found, the cultural elements in its holy book originated and where you guys have to pray and take your pilgrimage to.



Completely untrue. Even Christianity started by its predominately Jewish character, and even now Jews have a special place within Christianity.



Firstly, you again demonstrate your lack of knowledge of history. Those Germanic tribes were not more free than Persians. In fact, there society was characterized by tribalistic elements, as Afghanistan is today. Persians were culturally, scientifically and politically much more developed than which Germanic tribe whatsoever.

Second, when I am talking about Iranian culture, I am talking about the position of women, its opinion on fundamental things like morality, divinity and its social character. All these pre-Islamic Iranian values contradict Islamic culture, as Islam was merely based on its Arabic character. The way they treat women and the way we have treat women historically completely contradicts each other. The way they speak of 'infidels' and the punishment they connect to such 'sins' are completely alien to us.



Haha, you seriously believe this? When Islam came in Iran, it did not improved the social position of Iranians. In fact, it constantly discriminated and segregated us, to such extent that we were only good for paying taxes (Jizya). Islam never ended slavery; in fact, in Islam slavery is permitted (with some conditions), and Zoroastrianism completely forbid it. Arabian (Islamic) slavery has even a greater and more barbarian history than Western slavery. Persians NEVER knew slavery to such extent before Islam.



There was never a revolt within the Sassanid Empire in Iran, so you don't know what you are talking about.



First of all, beer originated in Iran. Second, fake nationalists like me are the one who are trying to preserve our historical identity, while Arabparast like you have given our country in the hands of Arab-worshipping mullahs.

Let people read our posts and judge them cos its just a pointless argument ( no offense ) .

And I'm sure that I'm proud of good parts of our history and good characters but that doesn't make me blind to say we were 100% right and had no problem before Islam .

Good Luck friend .

 

[iranigirl2]

Says the person who is following a religion that is famous for its women-hating character, and directly discriminate between believers and 'kuffars', using rhetorics like 'pigs and apes', and spread itself by death and destruction, as your own country was invaded by people who only knew deserts and how to rob caravans. Give me a frigging break.

I'm not a religious person, but even a blind man can see that Zoroastrianism, the religion of your ancestors, is superior on a moral, spiritual and cultural level than which Semite religion whatsoever.

I don't follow any religion. I agree with you on some of your statements. But Surenas sometimes you write really racists things and it makes you no different that those fascist islamists....

I've done enough research on Islam to know that 99% of what's written in Islam is not fascist, racist , or violent. Abrahamic religions like Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are very similar. What's happening in the middle east has to do with different states trying to gain power, and they use religion as a tool.Poor and uneducated people are easily manipulated.

Please do research about Islam and other Abrahamic religions.

BTW, The majority of Muslims are NOT EVEN ARAB.



According to the Pew Research Center in 2010 there were 49 Muslim-majority countries.Around 62% of the world's Muslims live in South and Southeast Asia, with over 1 billion adherents.The largest Muslim country is Indonesia, home to 12.7% of the world's Muslims, followed by Pakistan (11.0%), India (10.9%), and Bangladesh (9.2%).About 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries. In the Middle East, the non-Arab countries of Turkey and Iran are the largest Muslim-majority countries; in Africa, Egypt and Nigeria have the most populous Muslim communities.




.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yup I know about the the prefix 'Ya' being attached to one of the 4 - Ali, Hassan, Hussein or Fatima !

And occasionally to others like Abbas & others !

Naraey Haideri.... Ya Ali..

 

[Azizam]

I'm sure reading your beloved UK history and their role might end your confusion here . This is for 1000th time that I say don't judge a religion based on what people do .

Well, the role of UK is insignificant when compared to what Indira Gandhi (Indian PM) and some of our own b@astard politicians did for their own political gains but that's not the point. The point is Muslims are no special in terms of suffering created by terrorism. We suffered from terrorism far more than any of you can ever imagine. Besides this pointless victimization provides a justification for further terrorist acts against non-Muslims.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

What's the thing on display here? A belt of some sort?

weight lifting belts...

 

[mohsen]

Where it is in quran which says third party? Allah has asked to pray directly to him as he will personally attend each and every other prayer of the believer.

And as per Prophet Hadith, the criteria of third party is defined as who is alive physically and a pious man. He can pray for you on your behalf!

And how is it praying to dead people so they can ask God on your behalf is any more different than what Jews and christians used to do and ISLAM explicitly forbids it to do?

sura "yusof یوسف" ayah 97 :"قالوا يابانا استغفر لنا ذنوبنا انا كنا خطئين"
sura "nesa نسا" ayah 64 :
"و ما ارسلنا من رسول الا ليطاع باذن الله و لو انهم اذظلموا انفسهم جاءوك فاستغفروا الله و استغفر لهم‏الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما"
sura "maede مائده" ayah 35: "يايها الذين ءامنوا اتقوا الله و ابتغوا اليه الوسيلة وجهدوا فى سبيله لعلكم تفلحون"
the interesting part is that the last 2 Ayah I heard them from a Sunni cleric which like Shiah confirmed both the "intercession شفاعة " and visiting the grave "توسل".
Quran didn't say they have to be alive, physically alive condition is related to the Salat "صلاه" and not Doa "دعا" and if you have a Hadith for it, we have thousands of Hadith both in Shiah and Sunni that praises visiting the grave of holy men and have confirmed their intercession "شفاعة ".

 

[Nav]

Well now your country is.

well it is not like Iran and saudia

 

[KingMamba]

I'm not a religious guy but according to the shias ,

Prophet , Imams and martyrs are alive .

There was a verse about not calling martyrs dead as they're always alive . and a couple of others in this matter that I don't remember the translation .

An Iranian can be helpful to improve my answer .

Well prophets have no doubt passed as have Imams because if your Imams were not dead then the Imamate would not have passed onto the next in line, that is just common sense or else you would have only 1 Imam and not 12 hmm?

Martyrs are a tricky situation because while it is said they are alive, it is also said that they are no longer in this world and with Allah swt so they cannot possibly influence things here rather their martyrdom only benefits them because they bypass the trials of the grave.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

to emphasize that we will follow their path.
also these people are closer to god and their prayer has more effect, so we ask them to ask god, referring to a third party for intercession is even in Quran.

Still didn't get the required answer "THE USE OF THAT VERY BELT", What is the use of that belt ?

 

[RazPaK]

This thread is way too religious......

You guys need to chill out.