The Jinnahs : Irony of History

[seethru]

WHat a BS article. What is the point of this article exactly? Can anyone give me the point of this BS article?

That Jinnah was a convert and his family was like this and that and all? That is the point? If so, then so what? What difference does it make? He forced partition? Yeah right.

Pakistan is a reality, live with it. Jinnah's family name or anything does not make any difference whatsoever.

the founding of a country in the rigid lines of Religion and selective History, which resulted in more such migrations and rapture of families and communities, on a scale perhaps is unprecedented in the history of mankind.

 

[jbond197]

Zaffarulah Khan formed Pakistan... LOL... Btw Khojas are considered Muslim

You know I was talking about Jinnah.. Zafarullah khan always supported Jinnah as far as I know and was first Foreign minister of Pakistan.. He in fact fought Pakistan's Kashmir case in UN as well..

Make up ur minds Khojha ismaelis were muslim or not. One is saying they are other saying they are not.. Is it because you two are from different sects?

 

[INDIC]

Indian Hindu telling me ... wow

And you proved you know nothing.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You are correct but he had converted to Twelver Shia because it was more acceptable among the Muslim masses than Ismaeli Islam. Very few people would know that after his death two different namaz e janaza (funeralj prayers) were held, one according to the Shia rituals and one according to the Sunni rituals. After his death a Shia scholar on the instructions of his sister Fatimah JInnah arranged the ghusl and led his funeral prayer in a small room of the Governor General's House while Liaquat Ali, a Sunni, waited outside the room. After that his body was handed over to the state and a Suuni scholar Ahmad Usmani led his funeral prayers according to the sunni ritual, the most important part of this anecdote is that Ahamd Usmani had recently apostatized the Shias.

Liaqat ali khan was not sunni, he was shia.
After 1947 we see jinnah praying nimaz, in the manner of sunnis, it was necessary political action. But he personally never issued any statement in his life time that he is converting to twelver. Remember even qadianis at that time were active in pakistan movement as muslims, so why an ismaeli would feel the need to convert to twelver?

 

[Icewolf]

You know I was talking about Jinnah.. Zafarullah khan always supported Jinnah as far as I know and was first Foreign minister of Pakistan.. He in fact fought Pakistan's Kashmir case in UN as well..

Make up ur minds Khojha ismaelis were muslim or not. One is saying they are other saying they are not.. Is it because you two are from different sects?

Khojas are Muslim because they believe in the Rasool...

 

[jbond197]

Khojas are Muslim because they believe in the Rasool...

I think Ahmadis believes in Rasool too.. I mean anybody who claims himself to be Muslim would believe in Rasool.. Is'nt it?

 

[Icewolf]

I think Ahmadis believes in Rasool too..

Ahmedis think Rasool is not last prophet... Thats why they are not considered Muslim.

 

[jbond197]

Ahmedis think Rasool is not last prophet... Thats why they are not considered Muslim.

OK, I will not ask more difficult question because it's matter of faith and I don't want to hurt any one.. So will leave it at it..

 

[Icewolf]

OK, I will not ask more difficult question because it's matter of faith and I don't want to hurt any one.. So will leave it at it..

Ask... i dont mind

 

[Skywalker]

castes? You mean sects. There are two main sects in islam, sunni and shia. Sects like qadiani, ismaeli, alvi etc are too much deviated from islam, even their basics are wrong. So they are not accepted as muslims.

As your name suggest are you trying to do a monkey business bydisseminating false information or considering yourself a scholar who could do a fatwa.

I am not alvi but what do you know about alvis. There are punjabi speaking alvis who prounounce as alavis and there are urdu speaking alvis both shia and sunni. They have more stronger beliefs in Islam than you I guess.

By farting in this forum you wont win any heart. Last but not the least this is a defence forum not religious discussion board.

 

[Armstrong]

@jbond17

Twelver Shia means a person who is in one of the 12 sects of Shia Islam.

Haiinnn..yeh kab seh ? Oh bhai a 12 Shi'ite is someone who believe in the 12 Imams from Ali ibn Abi Talib to Mahdi who remains in a state of Occultation and will return as the 12th one !

Ismailis on the other-hand had a disagreement with mainstream Shi'ism about the succession of one of the Imams and hence broke free ! The Bohras in turn are another splinter group of Main-Stream Ismailism (or the Nizaris as they are called - the ones who follow the Agha Khan's lead as the Imam of the Age) !

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

As your name suggest are you trying to do a monkey business bydisseminating false information or considering yourself a scholar who could do a fatwa.

I am not alvi but what do you know about alvis. There are punjabi speaking alvis who prounounce as alavis and there are urdu speaking alvis both shia and sunni. They have more stronger beliefs in Islam than you I guess.

By farting in this forum you wont win any heart. Last but not the least this is a defence forum not religious discussion board.

Its not the people west of indus who are notorious for farting !
I was not talking about those with alvi surname. I am talking about alavis/alvis of syria. Like Ismaili Shias, Alavis believe in a system of divine incarnation. Unlike Ismailis, Alavis regard Ali as the incarnation of the deity in the divine triad." An Alavi prays in a manner "I testify that there is no God but Ali."

 

[Armstrong]

I think Ahmadis believes in Rasool too.. I mean anybody who claims himself to be Muslim would believe in Rasool.. Is'nt it?

Indeed ! However mainstream Islam also contends that the Muhammad (PBUH) was the Seal of the Prophethood and the Last of the Messengers ! The Ahmedis, however, contend that no...he was the last of the 'law-giving' Prophets and messengers may come after him ! Naturally a transgression, as viewed by most Muslims, against the very fundamentals of Islam i.e the finality of the Prophethood, is considered revisionism of the highest order till most Muslims don't consider the Ahmedis as Muslim. However another point to be noted is that the Ahmedis themselves are further divided into 2 groups; the considerably larger one is called the 'Jammat Ahmediya' and they prescribe to the aforementioned beliefs and hence think that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was another one of God's messenger and the Promised Messiah ! The other, much smaller, faction of the Ahmedis who call themselves the 'Lahori Jammat' believe that Mirza Sahib wasn't a messenger and that the Prophethood really did stop with Muhammad (PBUH) but that he (Mirza Sahib) was a Mujadid (a Reformer), who like, many scholars (Mujadid) before him tried to purge un-Islamic practices from the faith and bring about a return to some of the true values of Islam and that his usage of the word 'Messenger' for himself was purely metaphorical in much the way many Sufi poets have used it to refer to themselves in the past.

 

[Meengla]

Don't know what the OP's intentions are but still a very interesting reading. One doesnt have to agree with a post to have some 'thought-provoking' reading.
M.A.Jinnah--the founder of Pakistan stood head and shoulders above his contemporary leaders in his time. Only if he had lived as long as Nehru did...Pakistan's destiny would be different.

 

[MilSpec]

Interesting read. Its a shame military mulah alliance demolished Jinnah'd idea of the pakistani nation.