The J-20-engine discussion is over and other speculative topics ... to separate from the J-20-news !

[Deino]

"The only strange thing on this is ... why on earth, does nobody outside, takes care of these theories??"

Because, they are not thinking about those issues, like me. Using what's publicly available informations, and deduce what's possible and what's impossible, using only standard high school level physics.

And You never came to the conclusion that the fact that no-one - really no-one outside this forum - believes this BS COULD be a sign that You are wrong?
Hey, if You drill a hole in Your own the knee and put a flower in it and you would be totally delighted, however quite surprised that nobody would follow you ... wouldn't it be proof enough that your idea is simply stupid and not proof in return that you are the only brilliant human being on earth ?

Deino

 

[Asoka]

"no-one - really no-one, outside this forum - believes this BS, COULD be a sign, that You are wrong?"

That's not true, Mr. Deino. I have remarkable agreements, with this Chinese blogger Doukou (刀口). And he has a large Chinese following. He is the only writer, other than Bill Sweetman, that I find highly credible and reliable, on the subject of J-20.

Many ideas I have, came to me, independently, and later, I found confirmations, in his website.

http://www.meyet.com/

Why don't you hear more about my view points, outside this forum?

Because, truths involving state secrets or classified informations, in the Chinese internet, are quickly deleted or suppressed by Chinese State Security, which vigorously monitor and police, all Chinese publications. Only the B.S. that suits them, are allowed to propagate around the world.

 

[Deino]

Ok ... but two guys each one with a hole in their knee and a flower in it still make a stupid idea not a genius one.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I have never said 5-Gen fighters could supercruise at Mach 3, w/o AB.

I said F-22 and J-20 could reach Mach 3, and cruise around that speed, with Afterburner turned on, like Mig-25 or Mig-31 or SR-71.

Surely, you could understand that there is a big difference.

As for your other questions, read my previous posts, to get answers. If you can't understand them, well, that not my problem, its your IQ level problem.

You insane Mr, @Asoka please tell me why you think the top speed of J-20 with afterburner is MACH-3, this speed is useless for J-20 Mr @Asoka

How do you know that? That was true for 3-gen and 4-gen aircrafts.

I am talking about 5-Gen fighters like F-22 with TVC, that give it extreme maneuverability at subsonic, as well as, supersonic speed.

And as for J-20, it will have even better maneuverability, because it has big full moving canards, at the front, and 3-D TVC, at the back, and full moving vertical tails, to give it, unprecedented maneuverability and agility.

Whether its 5th gen Jet or 3-4th gen Jets the physical laws remains same for both gen jets and i am talking about your proposed top speed of MACH-3 for J-20 under the MACH-2 J-20 extremely maneuverable/agile but at a top speed (your crap assessment MACH-3) has no/minimal agility because of g- force will tear apart J-20 if J-20 will try to maneuver at that speed Mr insane @Asoka
of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force
if you have a brain think logically Mr @Asoka

 

[Asoka]

"your proposed top speed of MACH-3 for J-20 under the MACH-2 J-20 extremely maneuverable/agile but at a top speed (your crap assessment MACH-3) has no/minimal agility because of g- force will tear apart J-20 if J-20 will try to maneuver at that speed"

Hey pakistani guy, I sometimes wonder, how are you going, to make it in this world, with your level of intelligence, and why are you in this J-20 thread, which does requires some intelligence, in some technical discussions.

Sometimes, I wonder whether you are really from Pakistan, and whether you are really an Indian, pretending to be a Pakistani, who were trying hard to act dumb, to make the Pakistanis look bad.

Anyway, I proposed 5-gen fighter like J-20 and J-22 have a top speed above Mach 3, because they have two very powerful engines (175kN for F-22, +210kN for J-20, whereas Mig-25's engine have only 100kN), and very aerodynamic airframe with very low supersonic drag, which with these two advantages, enable them supercruise at Mach 1.6, w/o AB.

And I further propose, because they have a very tough airframe, and have TVC, and plus canards for J-20, they are extremely maneuverable/agile. And even at Mach 3, they can fly much more than at straight line, unlike the previous generation of interceptor like Mig-25 and Mig-31.

What kind of g-force, they can pull at Mach 3, I, simply, don't know. But I am sure, it's going to be much better than Mig-25 or Mig-31, or SR-71.

"g- force will tear apart J-20, if J-20 will try to maneuver, at that speed""

I don't know what you mean by "maneuver" or what kind of moves. Of course, their will be a limit to what they can do at Mach 3, no doubt. Beyond that, they will fall apart, that's for sure.

But that will not stop F-22 or J-20 from being an excellent Interceptor at intercepting large and slow bombers, oil tankers, Awacs, and other large aircrafts, because those aircrafts have little maneuverability.

I do not propose J-20 or F-22 will do, or could do, crazy stunts, at Mach 3, like the Flankers at the airshows.

No need to.

They just need to fly fast and straight, at Mach 3+, toward those target, they intend to intercepts, and launch their long range missiles, from far away, like 200-300km away. Then, turn back and go home.

Without their oil tankers, Awacs, and other large supporting aircrafts, the attacking force would have no chance to succeed. They probably can't even go home, to their airbase. They would have run out of fuel and crash in the Pacific ocean.

Because of J-20's stealthy low observability and flying at Mach 3, toward the enemies oil tankers or Awacs, the enemy fighters would have much less chance of stopping them, than if the J-20 were cruising only at Mach 1.6 - Mach 2.0.

Do you get my drift now?

Chill out and relax. You are going to have a heart attack, at this rate.

 

[Ultima Thule]

"your proposed top speed of MACH-3 for J-20 under the MACH-2 J-20 extremely maneuverable/agile but at a top speed (your crap assessment MACH-3) has no/minimal agility because of g- force will tear apart J-20 if J-20 will try to maneuver at that speed"

Hey pakistani guy, I sometimes wonder, how are you going, to make it in this world, with your level of intelligence, and why are you in this J-20 thread, which does requires some intelligence, in some technical discussions.

Sometimes, I wonder whether you are really from Pakistan, and whether you are really an Indian, pretending to be a Pakistani, who were trying hard to act dumb, to make the Pakistanis look bad.

Anyway, I proposed 5-gen fighter like J-20 and J-22 have a top speed above Mach 3, because they have two very powerful engines (175kN for F-22, +210kN for J-20, whereas Mig-25's engine have only 100kN), and very aerodynamic airframe with very low supersonic drag, which with these two advantages, enable them supercruise at Mach 1.6, w/o AB.

And I further propose, because they have a very tough airframe, and have TVC, and plus canards for J-20, they are extremely maneuverable/agile. And even at Mach 3, they can fly much more than at straight line, unlike the previous generation of interceptor like Mig-25 and Mig-31.

What kind of g-force, they can pull at Mach 3, I, simply, don't know. But I am sure, it's going to be much better than Mig-25 or Mig-31, or SR-71.

"g- force will tear apart J-20, if J-20 will try to maneuver, at that speed""

I don't know what you mean by "maneuver" or what kind of moves. Of course, their will be a limit to what they can do at Mach 3, no doubt. Beyond that, they will fall apart, that's for sure.

But that will not stop F-22 or J-20 from being an excellent Interceptor at intercepting large and slow bombers, oil tankers, Awacs, and other large aircrafts, because those aircrafts have little maneuverability.

I do not propose J-20 or F-22 will do, or could do, crazy stunts, at Mach 3, like the Flankers at the airshows.

No need to.

They just need to fly fast and straight, at Mach 3+, toward those target, they intend to intercepts, and launch their long range missiles, from far away, like 200-300km away. Then, turn back and go home.

Without their oil tankers, Awacs, and other large supporting aircrafts, the attacking force would have no chance to succeed. They probably can't even go home, to their airbase. They would have run out of fuel and crash in the Pacific ocean.

Because of J-20's stealthy low observability and flying at Mach 3, toward the enemies oil tankers or Awacs, the enemy fighters would have much less chance of stopping them, than if the J-20 were cruising only at Mach 1.6 - Mach 2.0.

Do you get my drift now?

Chill out and relax. You are going to have a heart attack, at this rate.

Then prove me first that J-20 has a top speed of MACH-3 from a authentic source not someone crap blogpsot
and at the speed of MACH-3 all control surfaces and TVC has a minimal effect for the jet,
I read somewhere in the net that at top speed SR-71 if trying to maneuver for the target as quickly as possible it had been miss its target by hundreds of miles
and google yourself Mr @Asoka speed vs maneuverability/agility
No one can change natural physic in the world but only you can change that natural physic Mr @Asoka
and you have a intelligence and technical ability to convince other @Asoka your false superstition and false assumptions worth nothing Mr fool @Asoka

"your proposed top speed of MACH-3 for J-20 under the MACH-2 J-20 extremely maneuverable/agile but at a top speed (your crap assessment MACH-3) has no/minimal agility because of g- force will tear apart J-20 if J-20 will try to maneuver at that speed"

Hey pakistani guy, I sometimes wonder, how are you going, to make it in this world, with your level of intelligence, and why are you in this J-20 thread, which does requires some intelligence, in some technical discussions.

Sometimes, I wonder whether you are really from Pakistan, and whether you are really an Indian, pretending to be a Pakistani, who were trying hard to act dumb, to make the Pakistanis look bad.

Anyway, I proposed 5-gen fighter like J-20 and J-22 have a top speed above Mach 3, because they have two very powerful engines (175kN for F-22, +210kN for J-20, whereas Mig-25's engine have only 100kN), and very aerodynamic airframe with very low supersonic drag, which with these two advantages, enable them supercruise at Mach 1.6, w/o AB.

And I further propose, because they have a very tough airframe, and have TVC, and plus canards for J-20, they are extremely maneuverable/agile. And even at Mach 3, they can fly much more than at straight line, unlike the previous generation of interceptor like Mig-25 and Mig-31.

What kind of g-force, they can pull at Mach 3, I, simply, don't know. But I am sure, it's going to be much better than Mig-25 or Mig-31, or SR-71.

"g- force will tear apart J-20, if J-20 will try to maneuver, at that speed""

I don't know what you mean by "maneuver" or what kind of moves. Of course, their will be a limit to what they can do at Mach 3, no doubt. Beyond that, they will fall apart, that's for sure.

But that will not stop F-22 or J-20 from being an excellent Interceptor at intercepting large and slow bombers, oil tankers, Awacs, and other large aircrafts, because those aircrafts have little maneuverability.

I do not propose J-20 or F-22 will do, or could do, crazy stunts, at Mach 3, like the Flankers at the airshows.

No need to.

They just need to fly fast and straight, at Mach 3+, toward those target, they intend to intercepts, and launch their long range missiles, from far away, like 200-300km away. Then, turn back and go home.

Without their oil tankers, Awacs, and other large supporting aircrafts, the attacking force would have no chance to succeed. They probably can't even go home, to their airbase. They would have run out of fuel and crash in the Pacific ocean.

Because of J-20's stealthy low observability and flying at Mach 3, toward the enemies oil tankers or Awacs, the enemy fighters would have much less chance of stopping them, than if the J-20 were cruising only at Mach 1.6 - Mach 2.0.

Do you get my drift now?

Chill out and relax. You are going to have a heart attack, at this rate.

And tell me Mr @Asoka what is use of that high speed of J-20 (MACH-3), J-20 is not a true interceptor/spy jet, and J-20 can Easily intercept IRS/tanker/AWACS jets at a subsonic/ trans sonic speed Mr BS @Asoka

 

[Title123]

You insane Mr, @Asoka please tell me why you think the top speed of J-20 with afterburner is MACH-3, this speed is useless for J-20 Mr @Asoka

Whether its 5th gen Jet or 3-4th gen Jets the physical laws remains same for both gen jets and i am talking about your proposed top speed of MACH-3 for J-20 under the MACH-2 J-20 extremely maneuverable/agile but at a top speed (your crap assessment MACH-3) has no/minimal agility because of g- force will tear apart J-20 if J-20 will try to maneuver at that speed Mr insane @Asoka
of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force
if you have a brain think logically Mr @Asoka

Interesting J20can reach mach3 if have engine trust enought what Asoka said may be correct.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Interesting J20can reach mach3 if have engine trust enought what Asoka said may be correct.

Just in @Asoka false assumptions and wishful thinking, What is the purpose of reaching such high speed J-20 is not a interceptor like MIG-25, MIG-31 and nor spy plane like SR-71

 

[Asoka]

Interesting, J20 can reach mach3, if have engine trust enough, what Asoka said, may be correct.

@Title123
Mig-25 Specificifications:

• Powerplant: 2 × Tumansky R-15B-300 afterburning turbojets
  • Dry thrust: 73.5 kN (16,524 lbf) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 100.1 kN (22,494 lbf) each

Performance

• Maximum speed:
  • High altitude: Mach 3.2[10] (3,470 km/h; 2,170 mph); Mach 2.83[10] (3,200 km/h; 1,920 mph) (continuous engine limit)
  • Low altitude: Mach 0.97[citation needed] (1,200 km/h; 746 mph) [91]

F-22 Specification:

• Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 turbofans with thrust vectoring in pitch-axis
  • Dry thrust: 26,000 lb[269] (116 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: >35,000 lb (>156 kN[N 5][270]) each

Performance

• Maximum speed:
  • At altitude: Mach 2.25 [actually is classified](1,500 mph, 2,410 km/h) [estimated][116]
  • Supercruise: Mach 1.82 (1,220 mph, 1,960 km/h)[116]

Notice, F-22's Dry thrust (116kn) is greater than Mig-25's full thrust (100.1kn), or wet thrust.

As you can see F-22 have far greater thrust than the Mig-25, and it's sleek, aerodynamic designed airframe makes Mig-25 looks positively pre-historic.

The top speed of F-22 is still classified. I just can't see why if F-22 can supercruise at Mach 1.82, with Dry or Military power, alone, but can't reach Mach 3, at higher altitude, with full power.

And if F-22 and Mig-25 can do it, there is no doubt J-20 can do it, too, because J-20's WS-15 engine each has +210kn vs F-22's +156kn, and vs Mig-25's 100kn. And J-20 has a much slender and longer airframe, which is good for supersonic speed, than F-22.

Why is F-22's top speed still classified?

I bet its because, its so scary compared to the top speed of previous generation's fighter like the Flankers, F-16s, Eagles, Typhoon, and Rafael's, which has top speed like Mach 2.0-2.2.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Mig-25 Specificifications:

• Powerplant: 2 × Tumansky R-15B-300 afterburning turbojets
  • Dry thrust: 73.5 kN (16,524 lbf) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 100.1 kN (22,494 lbf) each

Performance

• Maximum speed:
  • High altitude: Mach 3.2[10] (3,470 km/h; 2,170 mph); Mach 2.83[10] (3,200 km/h; 1,920 mph) (continuous engine limit)
  • Low altitude: Mach 0.97[citation needed] (1,200 km/h; 746 mph) [91]

F-22 Specification:

• Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 turbofans with thrust vectoring in pitch-axis
  • Dry thrust: 26,000 lb[269] (116 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: >35,000 lb (>156 kN[N 5][270]) each

Performance

• Maximum speed:
  • At altitude: Mach 2.25 [actually is classified](1,500 mph, 2,410 km/h) [estimated][116]
  • Supercruise: Mach 1.82 (1,220 mph, 1,960 km/h)[116]

Notice, F-22's Dry thrust (116kn) is greater than Mig-25's full thrust (100.1kn), or wet thrust.

As you can see F-22 have far greater thrust than the Mig-25, and it's sleek, aerodynamic designed airframe makes Mig-25 looks positively pre-historic.

The top speed of F-22 is still classified. I just can't see why if F-22 can supercruise at Mach 1.82, with Dry or Military power, alone, but can't reach Mach 3, at higher altitude, with full power.

And if F-22 and Mig-25 can do it, there is no doubt J-20 can do it, too, because J-20's WS-15 engine each has +210kn vs F-22's +156kn, and vs Mig-25's 100kn. And J-20 has a much slender and longer airframe, which is good for supersonic speed, than F-22.

Why is F-22's top speed still classified?

I bet its because, its so scary compared to the top speed of previous generation's fighter like the Flankers, F-16s, Eagles, Typhoon, and Rafael's top speed like Mach 2.0-2.2.

@Asoka your endless and waste-less sh!t is continue what is the purpose of reaching MACH-3 speed for J-20 and F-22, all target for J-20 and F-22 will be intercepted on subsonic/transonic speed and you're reported your farting without the solid prove

 

[Asoka]

I thought I was the first one to come up with the max. thrust of 210kN for WS-15. Looks like, I was wrong. Someone posted this figure back in 2012-5-20. He beat me to it by over 4 years. Most importantly, this user fsguoj, like me. believes 210kN is a quite conservative figure. Hence, I usually state the max. thrust of WS-15, as at least, +210kN.

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1342409-7-1.html
"fsguoj 发表于 2012-5-20 09:07
最近听捏泪人士暴料，WS15的涵道比确实0.2左右，准确的数据是最大推力210KN"
"这应该还是比较保守的数据"

"Recently, I heard someone, who is in the know, said, the by-pass-ratio of WS-15 is actually around 0.2, and the accurate figure of its maximum thrust is 210kN"

"And really, this is a relatively conservative figure."

This user fsguoj's post was quickly deleted and banned from cjdby.com 超级大本营军事论坛. I got this quote from following up comments by other users.

 

[帅的一匹]

210KN is way too much beyond expectation. For me, 180KN is more than enough.

 

[Deino]

@Asoka you beleive in this
No No Mr @Asoka WS-15 has a thrust of 400 kn supercrusie at Mach 5 , top speed of mach 10, range is 20000 miles, and at mach 10 J-20 maneuverable as 100G, its totally invisible to radar, IR sensors, is that right Mr XXXX, insane @Asoka

Please ... even if I agree with You that he's once again wrong - two guys with the same stupid idea, still makes this idea not a brilliant one but only shows that there are more stupids out there - but NO personnel insults.

By the way, ... any news on 2021??

 

[Asoka]

210KN is way too much beyond expectation. For me, 180KN is more than enough.

'For me, 180KN is more than enough."
For you that's enough. No doubt.

What is so scary is that 210kN is just my minimum estimate. The actual max. thrust of ws-15 is well beyond that. IMO. That's why the Chinese desperately wants to keep the state of WS-15's development, one of the highest state secret, and is waging a massive (and successful) deception campaign (on mainstream medias and various Internet Defense Forums) to fool the western intelligence agencies.

The real truth will blow your socks off.

 

[Deino]

@pakistanipower

calm down ... we won't never ever persuade him. He's on a holy crusade to persuade all stupid ones
and You cannot logically discuss with peoples who have a strong believe.