The Iraqi Armed Forces

[Ceylal]

Bolded that part for you. In point of fact, it's never happened. The US military has never "overtaken" anything. In both Vietnam and Iraq, the US decided to put puppet regimes in power rather than take direct military control of the country. Those regimes crumbled on their own - but the US military itself has absolutely never lost a battle or a war since WW2.

Make it easy for you...Use google

The US is hobbled not by inferior war-fighting ability but by its unwillingness to conduct itself as Arabs and other non-Westerners do and simply kill and destroy anything and anyone who doesn't go our way. The US supports despots and evildoers to be sure, but in most cases those despots are inevitably revealed as products of their place and time - Saddam being a good example.

How many ,did the US army killed in Vietnam, Antigua, Panama, Haiti, Nicaragua, Iraq, Afghanistan...Just Iraq over a million..

If the US (and Israel) were willing to do what the Arabs did at Hama, or during Black September, or how the Egyptian army conducts itself towards civilians, we wouldn't have these problems. Whether you want to see that as a fault or not is up to you.

I am not covering for the countries of the middle east and how they treat their civilians, but what I am saying is that the US doesn't do things with kids glove either...Traces of the US boots are all over the world..what's the deal with all those military bases?
Israel is worse, they have no regard for human life unless its a jewish one...Their rap sheet is as long as wide...Even the US, her main protector didn't escape her thirst for blood...remember the the attack on the Liberty...and the attack of the US embassy in Benghazi hasn't trickled out yet....wait for book, or wiki leaks to publish what really happened there and who really behind it ...

Then why do so many Arabs want to live in the West? Why can't Arabs catch up with Israel?

Arabs will be happy to stay home, if the world left them alone..You talk about Syrians I imagine..Have you asked yourself why they are going only to Germany? If you find the answer, please share it with us..
What you are forgetting when it comes to Israel, Israel is another middle eastern country..They are ahead of the game because of the technology the West shower them with. The US too, it is the British who are behind the technolgical advances we are enjoying today. If the wars haven't taken place, the US will be today like any country of Europe, and probably the first superpower would be England.

 

[Aestu]

the US decided to put puppet regimes in power rather than take direct military control of the country

Thanks that's enough.said.

What do you mean, it's enough said? You think we're not good at war because we refuse to make war on defenseless people? Man, Arab mentality right there!

I don't know if you aware about what you type or not!?.

You just said they are despots and evildoers these kind of people regardless their place evil is evil any where every where... Because of the US decided to put puppet regimes in power

I don't understand the first part of what you said here. The point is that these countries are going to be ruled by strongmen no matter what, so it might as well be our guy, right? Or do you really think that Syria, Iraq and Egypt are ready for democracy? You people who think that mercy is a sign of weakness and that cruelty is a sign of strength really think you're ready to govern yourselves democratically? Hah!

 

[BordoEnes]

200 trabant against 150 plus rolls royce..The SU 30 by itself is an Awac...We have a long tradition in aviation , our first fighter pilots were trained in 1952...Egypt has nothing in her arsenal that can be threat to Algeria, despite he boasted that he can own Algeria in 3 days...He can't even subdue a band of ISIS thumbing their a noses at him, how can pretend to invade Algeria that defeated a world power assisted by NATO.


Egyptian F16 have a magnifier glass as heads up display, they have no BVR capabilities, no EWR suite, no advanced missile beside a sidewinder...their MIG 21 are lot better..and you are talking out of your @ss, even Egyptian than know about military and know about their army are silent..


For your knowledge our pilots are schooled , in both school of thought, the Western and Eastern...American most prestigious fighting pilot schools are very familiar with the caliber of our pilots since most of them during their formation pass thru there...
anything else, you want me to address ?

Are you high? There are no 150+ "Rolls Royces" within the Algerian Air Force by a long shot. The only modern aircraft fleet worth mentioning is the several dosens of Su-30's, beside this you have a squadron of MiG-29 and MiG-25. The Egyptian Air Force on the other hand has around 200 relativly modern F-16 Block 40/42's (most of which) and 20 modern Block 52's. They also have 9 AWACS aircrafts. This alone is more then enough to completely overwhelm the Algerian Air Force and we are not even talking about the newly delivered Rafale's and relativly modern Mirage-2000's.

Then we can still point out:
- The obviously better experience and quality of the average Egyptian pilot.
- The low quantity of any capable fighters within Algerian Air Force.
- The Lack of AWACS aircrafts
- Egypte is a military tradition country, whilst Algeria is simply not.
- Algerian Lack of BVR missiles whilst Egypte has AIM-9 Sidewinder and soon Meteor.
- Egypte has much more modern EW suites and modern avionics equipts in their respective fleet of aircrafts.

Your couple dosens Su-30, MiG-29 and MiG-25 will barelly scratch the Egyptian Air Force, thats the reality of the situation. I dont really care for your little beef with the Egyptian forumers but atleast dont spout BS.

 

[Malik Alashter]

really think you're ready to govern yourselves democratically? Hah!

We already do in Iraq don't you see that the trouble maker in Iraq are those who supported by the U.S for example Masaud Albarzani and the Baathist in parliament.

While Shiite and the some sunnis trying hard supporting democracy in the country!.

Let me ask you please why democracy in Iraq scare you don't you suppose to bolster it after all the money you spend and the lives you lost.

You think we're not good at war because we refuse to make war on defenseless people? Man, Arab mentality right there!

No, that's not what I meant.

 

[Aestu]

How many did the US army killed in Vietnam, Antigua, Panama, Haiti, Nicaragua, Iraq, Afghanistan...Just Iraq over a million..

The number of civilians killed by the US military is extremely low by the standards of Third World warfare. How many died during the conflicts in Lebanon, Yemen or Iran?

I am not covering for the countries of the middle east and how they treat their civilians, but I what I am saying is that the US doesn't do things with kids glove either...Traces of the US boots are all over the world..what's the deal with all those military bases?

Likewise I am not covering for US foreign policy. I'm simply pointing out that it could be a whole lot worse...if we wanted it to be. If it were not incompatible with our cultural values.

Arabs will be happy to stay home, if the world left them alone..

AHAHAHAHAHA THAT'S A GOOD ONE

There are tens of millions of Arab immigrants in Europe who beg to differ. You got a guy in this thread who thinks Israel gave back the Sinai for some other reason than their wish to be left alone and that Egypt just can't leave Israel alone because...Arab this, Arab that, blah blah blah. The Islamists who are now fighting in the Middle East are bent on world domination. The Arab world's only exports are petroleum, shirtless migrants and violence. Get real.

What you are forgetting when it comes to Israel, Israel is another middle eastern country..They are ahead of the game because of the technology the West shower them with. The US too, it is the British who are behind the technolgical advances we are enjoying today.

The Arabs have been fed technology by both the West and Russia for decades now. The Arab world STILL has a 75% literacy rate and zero domestic R&D, which is why in this thread Arabs are griping about the relative merits of American, European, Russian and Chinese fighter craft, while Israel can just design and build what it pleases if it doesn't like what it sees on the market. Israel didn't like the American tank offerings, so it built the Merkava; Israel didn't like the Thompson or the Kalashnikov so it built the Uzi and Galil and is planning to replace its American M16s with the Tavor. The Arabs don't have that option for reasons that have nothing to do with the West and/or Israel.

If the whole wide world except Israel fell into the ocean, Israel would still be where it is because it has institutions capable of producing highly educated people who have skills and the capacity to innovate. I personally know many educated Israelis who are thinking of emigrating to the US because Israel is internally so hypercompetitive; South Korea is the same way for the same reasons (small country poor in natural resources but with a surplus of human resources). Arabs on the other hand emigrate because their own countries have nothing to offer.

Here's the real problem with what you're saying. Arabs, as well as many ignorant people in the West and elsewhere, particularly leftists, think that technology is a state of nature. They think it's like petroleum, something that is arbitrarily in evidence in some countries and not others. They think that the way you get it if you don't have it is to beg, borrow or steal from those who do have it.

Technology isn't a "thing", it's an abstraction embodied in individuals and institutions. It's not something that can be "given" to any meaningful extent. As we've noted in this thread, you can choose what fighter to buy, but in the final analysis the countries that can actually do the R&D will always have 100% of the power.

If the wars haven't taken place, the US will be today like any country of Europe, and probably the first superpower would be England.

Why?

 

[Ceylal]

Are you high? There are no 150+ "Rolls Royces" within the Algerian Air Force by a long shot. The only modern aircraft fleet worth mentioning is the several dosens of Su-30's, beside this you have a squadron of MiG-29 and MiG-25. The Egyptian Air Force on the other hand has around 200 relativly modern F-16 Block 40/42's (most of which) and 20 modern Block 52's. They also have 9 AWACS aircrafts. This alone is more then enough to completely overwhelm the Algerian Air Force and we are not even talking about the newly delivered Rafale's and relativly modern Mirage-2000's.

Then we can still point out:
- The obviously better experience and quality of the average Egyptian pilot.
- The low quantity of any capable fighters within Algerian Air Force.
- The Lack of AWACS aircrafts
- Egypte is a military tradition country, whilst Algeria is simply not.
- Algerian Lack of BVR missiles whilst Egypte has AIM-9 Sidewinder and soon Meteor.
- Egypte has much more modern EW suites and modern avionics equipts in their respective fleet of aircrafts.

Your couple dosens Su-30, MiG-29 and MiG-25 will barelly scratch the Egyptian Air Force, thats the reality of the situation. I dont really care for your little beef with the Egyptian forumers but atleast dont spout BS.

Nobody asked for your opinion Bordel Anus...and don't quote me anymore...I have no use or a respect for spineless earth worms...The bull shit reply of yours is just that , and I hope that the Egyptian will believe it..Even them have great doubt of the capability of their aircraft...If Egypt has such a capability, how come they are not showing it in Yemen today? The Sauds and GCC gave them close to $30B to help them economically so they can join them in the fight against the Houthi? fu--ck off and don't you ever quote me..

 

[Aestu]

We already do in Iraq don't you see that the trouble maker in Iraq are those who supported by the U.S for example Masaud Albarzani and the Baathist in parliament. While Shiite and the some sunnis trying hard supporting democracy in the country!. Let me ask you please why democracy in Iraq scare you don't you suppose to bolster it after all the money you spend and the lives you lost.

What do you believe the US's final goal in Iraq actually is?

If the vote tomorrow produced an overwhelmingly Shi'ite government, do you really think the Sunnis are just going to roll over and take that? Do you also believe that Lebanon descended into chaos because of the US and not the Sunni Arab immigrants? Or that the US is behind the street riots in the EU?

No, that's not what I meant.

Then clarify it. How does the US' unwillingness to govern countries directly reflect negatively on our ability to make war?

- The obviously better experience and quality of the average Egyptian pilot.
- Egypte is a military tradition country, whilst Algeria is simply not

Fighter pilots are fully rated within a few months and the benefit to further experience is grossly marginal

Egyptian pilots suck and everyone who has ever worked with them or fought against them, American, Russian or Israeli, says so

Military dictatorship =/= military tradition; militaries that get involved in politics are invariably bad at fighting wars

 

[Malik Alashter]

Nobody asked for your opinion Bordel Anus...and don't quote me anymore...I have no use or respect with spineless earth worms...

But really @Ceylal what did you mean by 150?.

If the vote tomorrow produced an overwhelmingly Shi'ite government, do you really think the Sunnis are just going to roll over and take that?

They will as long as no one supporting their insurgency.

 

[Aestu]

They will as long as no one supporting their insurgency.

Goes back to my point about how much help they got from anyone in starting trouble elsewhere.

It's funny how your operating premise is that Arabs can't do anything unless someone else does it for them. Let me turn that around for you for a moment - why aren't there insurgencies in other countries besides in the Middle East?

 

[Ceylal]

But really @Ceylal what did you mean by 150?.

Approximate number of the SU 30 MKA's in use with the Algerian air force...their goal is to have about 170...and they are getting close to that. there is the official number 58, but the real number is what I just said...

Why?

All the armement, from planes , tanks and radar technology and industry secret were given to the US by England who feared a German invasion and wanted to use the giant US industrial conglomerate to produce them..That was a big boost a leap to the US military industry base.

 

[Aestu]

All the armement, from planes , tanks and radar technology and industry secret were given to the US by England who feared a German invasion and wanted to use the giant US industrial conglomerate to produce them..That was a big boost a leap to the US military industry base.

Again with this idea that all technology is initially incidental and then redistributed. You can't see that's a fallacy?

Do you not realize the United States invented the airplane?

 

[Malik Alashter]

Goes back to my point about how much help they got from anyone in starting trouble elsewhere.

It's funny how your operating premise is that Arabs can't do anything unless someone else does it for them. Let me turn that around for you for a moment - why aren't there insurgencies in other countries besides in the Middle East?

Conference held in Turkey that's a support I'm not mentioning the support to the Qaeda and isis.

 

[Aestu]

Conference held in Turkey that's a support I'm not mentioning the support to the Qaeda and isis.

I only understand English. Could you explain the point of the video?

Are you meaning to say that preachers in Turkey are inciting conflict?

 

[Malik Alashter]

I only understand English. Could you explain the point of the video? Are you meaning to say that preachers in Turkey are inciting conflict?

This was an answer to this ( Goes back to my point about how much help they got from anyone in starting trouble elsewher )

Source: The Iraqi Armed Forces | Page 126

Are you meaning to say that preachers in Turkey are inciting conflict?

It's not only preachers in Turkey or Saudi it's the regimes of those countries who pour gas on fire!.

 

[Aestu]

This was an answer to this ( Goes back to my point about how much help they got from anyone in starting trouble elsewher ) It's not only preachers in Turkey or Saudi it's the regimes of those countries who pour gas on fire!

You think that you are validating your claim that foreigners are responsible for what goes on in your country, but in reality, you're debunking it. If speeches are enough to cause Iraqis to kill each other, that's no one's responsibility but their own as individuals and as a culture - proof they can't handle democracy.

Of course there are laws against hate speech in the US/EU, but if you really want, you can watch whatever you want on YouTube. You can go read The Final Call or Stormfront or any other rag advocating violence, but if you kill people that's your responsibility. Ultimately, peace in our societies exists because our people wish it.

Arab culture struggles with democracy because you don't recognize the concept of personal responsibility. This fundamental blind spot defines your entire culture - such as your views about technology.