The international-law Irony of U.S. Provocations in South China Sea

[sweetgrape]

Honestly?

I don't get a single word you say.......

Hehe, so, the end.
Talking is cheap, we will keep reclaiming our island, build more warship, I presonally invite more USA warships into SCS, it will become more interesting, more pressure on PLA and CPC, Normal Chinese also will keep support CPC, you like that, we too, win-win-win, hehe.

 

[JSCh]

LOL at your logic, you are literally saying since 1+1=2, then 2 must come from 1+1

FON ops are to ensure ships pass thru INTERNATIONAL WATER or AIRSPACE despite all other claimant and their view, in effect, it's a US view to say "You can think whatever the hell you want, but we think it is an international water or airway" end of story.

FON ops does not admit that this action are conduct under foreign sovereign, on the contrary, it is the opposite that's true. It is illogical to say since US Challenge the sovereignty of a given nation, they must first accept that nation hold the sovereignty right of the location where FON Ops are conduct. Simply because if US did accepted that nation's sovereignty right, then there would not be a FON ops in the first place.

If what you said is true, and I quote

FON ops are to ensure ships pass thru INTERNATIONAL WATER or AIRSPACE despite all other claimant and their view, in effect, it's a US view to say "You can think whatever the hell you want, but we think it is an international water or airway" end of story.​

Then consider the following news from U.S. Naval Institute,

Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska - USNI News

Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska
By: Sam LaGrone
September 3, 2015 5:37 PM

Five Chinese warships crossed into U.S. territorial waters heading south out of the Bering Sea exercising a stipulation in maritime law that allows a warship to cross into another country’s maritime territory legally, U.S. defense officials told USNI News on Thursday.

The People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) flotilla made an “innocent passage” passing within 12 nautical miles of the Aleutian Islands that border the southern edge of the Bering Sea, defense officials told USNI News.
​

Since U.S. officially considered that action as "innocent passage" as stated by U.S. defense officials and applying your logic of "innocent passage" to the Chinese side, when Chinese warship innocent pass through Alaskan territorial water, China is asserting that it is international water, and China DO NOT accept U.S. sovereignty of Alaskan territorial water.

Since U.S. did not protest that action, could I therefore conclude that U.S. has given up the sovereignty of Alaskan territorial water ?!

 

[jhungary]

Calm down, brother. Your hot headed Cantonese blood is coming out now, lol. Anyways, just stay cool. Take middle ground.

Dude, it's not about hot headed Cantonese blood or what not.

The problem is simple. As a title member, I wrote tens of article trying to contributing to the forum quality, and try to keep my behaviour straight and narrow, however, while all these effort were not recognized. I have to deal with these people who will not hestitate to hurl insult on me, my country, and my allegiances,

When you see that you are basically the few one that contributing to this forum, and you get nothing out of it but instead you got a bunch of insult hurled at you, and you are not allowed to fire back because you are "supposedly" better than this, and when almost all of your report does not works (as I said, I spend 45 minutes reporting all the insult and resulting 0 actions taken) Which basically left you with one option left, that's to fend for yourselve, but then you can't do it because you are supposed to be better than that.

If the check and balance system is in place, and there are people actually care about the situation of this forum, I am more than happy to keep contributing, but when no one basically care, you don't honestly think you can be the one that can hold on forever.

While every article I wrote on defence, warfare matter, 10 more people post "Idiot this", "Moron that", or call you names or whatever, would you think what will people see at most? The article you wrote? Or those insult refeashing every 10 post? Then your contribution got put away somewhere on this forum and never got to see the end of days.

When all these changed, then I am more than gladly to change my view on the forum, but without seeing anything happened, I will simply use the same tone where I was called, on my reply.

 

[Aepsilons]

Dude, it's not about hot headed Cantonese blood or what not.

The problem is simple. As a title member, I wrote tens of article trying to contributing to the forum quality, and try to keep my behaviour straight and narrow, however, while all these effort were not recognized. I have to deal with these people who will not hestitate to hurl insult on me, my country, and my allegiances,

When you see that you are basically the few one that contributing to this forum, and you get nothing out of it but instead you got a bunch of insult hurled at you, and you are not allowed to fire back because you are "supposedly" better than this, and when almost all of your report does not works (as I said, I spend 45 minutes reporting all the insult and resulting 0 actions taken) Which basically left you with one option left, that's to fend for yourselve, but then you can't do it because you are supposed to be better than that.

If the check and balance system is in place, and there are people actually care about the situation of this forum, I am more than happy to keep contributing, but when no one basically care, you don't honestly think you can be the one that can hold on forever.

While every article I wrote on defence, warfare matter, 10 more people post "Idiot this", "Moron that", or call you names or whatever, would you think what will people see at most? The article you wrote? Or those insult refeashing every 10 post? Then your contribution got put away somewhere on this forum and never got to see the end of days.

When all these changed, then I am more than gladly to change my view on the forum, but without seeing anything happened, I will simply use the same tone where I was called, on my reply.

My bad, when i said 'hot headed' Cantonese , i meant to lighten up the mood by joking with you on the fiery response of Cantonese. As one who has had personal interaction with Cantonese folks , i know how very impassioned they tend to get, especially with the ones who are from Guangzhou (lol, hahaha). Anyways, i suppose we just have to deal with the folks we are interacting here, my friend. From one who has had very "colorful" interaction history with our Chinese patriot friends here in PDF, i always take these experiences as a point of conjecture in the learning of the patriotic nuances and points of views of our Sino patriot friends. From the pro unificationists and integrationists such as @TaiShang @Shotgunner51 @Arryn to the deep and ardent unilateral-spirited patriots such as @Keel, @Kiss_of_the_Dragon , @Kyle Sun , to the ambiguous stance patriots such as our "LOL" friend @xunzi .

Take everything with a grain of salt, my friend. Learn from it, and move on. Let us just hope to maintain civil obedient rapprochement processes without undue pretense and acridity.

Let us be patriotic, but with calm and heavenly mind !!

 

[jhungary]

If what you said is true, and I quote

FON ops are to ensure ships pass thru INTERNATIONAL WATER or AIRSPACE despite all other claimant and their view, in effect, it's a US view to say "You can think whatever the hell you want, but we think it is an international water or airway" end of story.​

Then consider the following news from U.S. Naval Institute,

Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska - USNI News

Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska
By: Sam LaGrone
September 3, 2015 5:37 PM

Five Chinese warships crossed into U.S. territorial waters heading south out of the Bering Sea exercising a stipulation in maritime law that allows a warship to cross into another country’s maritime territory legally, U.S. defense officials told USNI News on Thursday.

The People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) flotilla made an “innocent passage” passing within 12 nautical miles of the Aleutian Islands that border the southern edge of the Bering Sea, defense officials told USNI News.
​

Since U.S. officially considered that action as "innocent passage" as stated by U.S. defense officials and applying your logic of "innocent passage" to the Chinese side, when Chinese warship innocent pass through Alaskan territorial water, China is asserting that it is international water, and China DO NOT accept U.S. sovereignty of Alaskan territorial water.

Since U.S. did not protest that action, could I therefore conclude that U.S. has given up the sovereignty of Alaskan territorial water ?!

The Bering Strait is considered International Water by international law to begin with, it was not a US territorial water. Innocent passage will ALWAYS be granted to ship passing thru US territorial water into Bering Strait which transit thru between Russia and US.

What you are saying is not the direct result of a challenge, but a matter of international law. Innocent passage cannot be stop unless the ship in question does not simply pass thru the area, the US was monitoring the warship. And the Chinese warship did not do anything but simply passing thru the strait. Then what the hell the US is supposed to be protesting for?

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/International+Waterways

Defined International Waterway as

international waterways are straits, canals, and rivers that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that otherwise would be land-locked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait

Bering Straits is

is a strait connecting the Pacific and Arctic oceans between Russia and the US state of Alaska.

Lol, effectively, what you were saying is since US allow something perfectly legal as per interntional law, US gave up the territorial right that required to give up under said international law. Aren't that was supposed to happen?

EDIT:: The same cannot be said in SCS Situation, there are no international waterway China can claim the water, as they are not landlocked nor connecting two oceans, the question is, if Chinese protest on the passage, the passage US Navy conduct will not be innocents as there are no need or necessity to pass thru the area to begin with.

Hence China can claim the area of the ocean, but the claim, even for argument sake, turns out to be true, they cannot use "Innocent Passage" to excuse the US "Incursion" which is a situation a lot different than the time the Chinese ship passing thru Bering Strait into Russia.

 

[Solomon2]

The Bering Strait is considered International Water by international law to begin with, it was not a US territorial water.

Yup. And it's one of the reasons the U.S. isn't signing UNCLOS, to avoid extending the current 3nm limit to 12nm and creating unnecessary friction either with the international community or the Russians (who do claim a 12nm sea around their territory).

 

[Aepsilons]

I have to deal with these people who will not hestitate to hurl insult on me, my country, and my allegiances,

I understand and i truly empathize with you in this regard. Let us just continue to interact with Chinese members in a way we would expect. Let us just continue to remind them, or the ones we are discussing with to be respectful. I suppose we should expect their understanding. Actually before i used to clash heads with @Kiss_of_the_Dragon and even @beijingwalker @j20blackdragon , but as of late, using softer words with them have led them to change the way they used to discourse with me. I would encourage the same for you. Trust me, you know how it was like when i used to get into argument(s) with our Sino patriot friends. It wasn't pretty. I suppose it takes effort on both parties to change the way the interaction went.

Just my 5 yen.

 

[Tiqiu]

Dude, it's not about hot headed Cantonese blood or what not.

The problem is simple. As a title member, I wrote tens of article trying to contributing to the forum quality, and try to keep my behaviour straight and narrow, however, while all these effort were not recognized. I have to deal with these people who will not hestitate to hurl insult on me, my country, and my allegiances,

When you see that you are basically the few one that contributing to this forum, and you get nothing out of it but instead you got a bunch of insult hurled at you, and you are not allowed to fire back because you are "supposedly" better than this, and when almost all of your report does not works (as I said, I spend 45 minutes reporting all the insult and resulting 0 actions taken) Which basically left you with one option left, that's to fend for yourselve, but then you can't do it because you are supposed to be better than that.

If the check and balance system is in place, and there are people actually care about the situation of this forum, I am more than happy to keep contributing, but when no one basically care, you don't honestly think you can be the one that can hold on forever.

While every article I wrote on defence, warfare matter, 10 more people post "Idiot this", "Moron that", or call you names or whatever, would you think what will people see at most? The article you wrote? Or those insult refeashing every 10 post? Then your contribution got put away somewhere on this forum and never got to see the end of days.

When all these changed, then I am more than gladly to change my view on the forum, but without seeing anything happened, I will simply use the same tone where I was called, on my reply.

Allow me to point it out for you that your biggest enemy is self-deception: you seemed to believe that Chinese posters here can't see your motive behind your arguments. Why do you feel shame about your ethnicity and use false flag to engage discussion with Chinese poster here? Most Chinese posters are not annoyed by the hot discussion or the opposing views, but by the very fact that your intention and integrity are in doubt.

In relation to the quality of your arguments, I don't think you possessed the skills and quality to the degree you think you do. For instance, you claimed the Sydney metro train was Chinese made and the quality was not up to the high standard from your own experience of daily commuting by trains. When I asked you to come up with any local news coverage about this, you posted some video and news links about the delay of the commissioning of the Sydney metro train and mocked me by saying “where have you been for the past 10 years”. To your surprise the biggest irony of all these is only the steel body of the Sydney metro train was manufactured by Chinese co. in China, all the interior including computing control system were installed and finished in Australia by an Aussie/Japan joint venture co. And all the video and news links you posted were talking about computer glitch and sub-system malfunction, without any mention to the quality of Chinese train body work.

Therefore if you want to engage any serious discussion, and before calling others of trolling, it is time for you to do a reality check of yourself. Perhaps change your ethnicity flag to Vietnam for a start.

 

[Aepsilons]

Allow me to point it out for you that your biggest enemy is self-deception: you seemed to believe that Chinese posters here can't see your motive behind your arguments. Why do you feel shame about your ethnicity and use false flag to engage discussion with Chinese poster here? Most Chinese posters are not annoyed by the hot discussion or the opposing views, but by the very fact that your intention and integrity are in doubt.

In relation to the quality of your arguments, I don't think you possessed the skills and quality to the degree you think you do. For instance, you claimed the Sydney metro train was Chinese made and the quality was not up to the high standard from your own experience of daily commuting by trains. When I asked you to come up with any local news coverage about this, you posted some video and news links about the delay of the commissioning of the Sydney metro train and mocked me by saying “where have you been for the past 10 years”. To your surprise the biggest irony of all these is only the steel body of the Sydney metro train was manufactured by Chinese co. in China, all the interior including computing control system were installed and finished in Australia by an Aussie/Japan joint venture co. And all the video and news links you posted were talking about computer glitch and sub-system malfunction, without any mention to the quality of Chinese train body work.

Therefore if you want to engage any serious discussion, and before calling others of trolling, it is time for you to do a reality check of yourself. Perhaps change your ethnicity flag to Vietnam for a start.

@Tiqiu ,

Let me appraise the situation. I've been in PDF long enough (and have lurked long enough before joining) to know that @jhungary is , indeed, of Chinese ancestry. I think that tho he has opposing views as compared to other Chinese patriots here, he has also been raised and employed in the United States, served in their military, then after wards also stayed in the west, hence you have to understand his pro-west ideation and position(s). There is nothing wrong with that, its called acculturation. Secondly he grew up and was raised in a Western colony in East Asia, the city of Hong Kong. In fact i have many contacts during grad school days who were from Hong Kong; many Hong Kongers who prefer to study abroad tend to have a very positive appraisal of the west and society and have very critical positions regarding the 2 system 1 country method and current Beijing control of Hong Kong. I can , for a fact, vouche that I have some Hong Kong friends who have very negative views of current political situation. Do they represent all Hong Kongers? Of course not, but they do exist. So you have to understand that @jhungary may have the same consensus and position in that regard. But that is fine, political opinions are just that --- they are subjective and vary from the individualist perspective. Allow and give him the benefit of respect for airing his position in this very public international forum. There are others , out there, who hold the same view but do not say out publicly. At least he does.

Discuss positions on topics that you don't agree with --- with him. Don't keep on bringing up issue of race and ethnicity because he is for a fact of Cantonese ancestry. Tho i believe he is mixed, he still has Chinese ancestry.

 

[JSCh]

The Bering Strait is considered International Water by international law to begin with, it was not a US territorial water. Innocent passage will ALWAYS be granted to ship passing thru US territorial water into Bering Strait which transit thru between Russia and US.

What you are saying is not the direct result of a challenge, but a matter of international law. Innocent passage cannot be stop unless the ship in question does not simply pass thru the area, the US was monitoring the warship. And the Chinese warship did not do anything but simply passing thru the strait. Then what the hell the US is supposed to be protesting for?

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/International+Waterways

Defined International Waterway as



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait

Bering Straits is




Lol, effectively, what you were saying is since US allow something perfectly legal as per interntional law, US gave up the territorial right that required to give up under said international law. Aren't that was supposed to happen?

EDIT:: The same cannot be said in SCS Situation, there are no international waterway China can claim the water, as they are not landlocked nor connecting two oceans, the question is, if Chinese protest on the passage, the passage US Navy conduct will not be innocents as there are no need or necessity to pass thru the area to begin with.

Hence China can claim the area of the ocean, but the claim, even for argument sake, turns out to be true, they cannot use "Innocent Passage" to excuse the US "Incursion" which is a situation a lot different than the time the Chinese ship passing thru Bering Strait into Russia.

The title of the USNI news clearly stated that it is US territorial water. It cannot be both at the same time. As far as I know, US has not declared the area as international waterway.

There is a difference, according to the link you provided, International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways

The 1958 geneva convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone (516 U.N.T.S. 205, 15 U.S.T. 1606, T.I.A.S. No. 5639) does not deal comprehensively with international waterways, but does provide that "[t]here shall be no suspension of innocent passage of foreign ships through straits which are used for international navigation between one part of the high seas and another part of the high seas or the territorial sea of a foreign state" (art. 16, § 4). A territorial sea is the water that comes under the sovereign control of a state.​

China and many other countries do agree to "innocent passage" but required prior notification.

Consider the following (emphasis in red is mine own),

Full statement of US Dept. Defense on USS Curtis Wilbur’s FONOP past Triton Island | South China Sea
The following is the complete Jan. 30 statement on USS Curtis Wilbur’s freedom of navigation mission past Triton Island from the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

I can confirm the Department of Defense conducted a freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea on Jan 30 (Jan 29 EST), specifically in the vicinity of Triton Island in the Paracel Islands, to challenge excessive maritime claims of parties that claim the Paracel Islands.

This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants, China, Taiwan and Vietnam, to restrict navigation rights and freedoms around the features they claim by policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas. The excessive claims regarding Triton Island are inconsistent with international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention.
​

U.S. consider prior permissiion and notification before transit as excessive and illegal in UNCLOS.

China and many other countries disagree.

And the issue is controversial, because UNCLOS is ambiguous in that respect.

 

[Aepsilons]

Perhaps change your ethnicity flag to Vietnam for a start.

Lastly, it is unfair for you to label anything "Vietnamese" with anti-China and pro-West. South Vietnamese communities in the West do not , hardly, represent the total will and mindset of Viet Nam. Remember that. Viet Nam, as it stands, is a Communist Republic, in fact one of only three remaining ones in Asia (China, Viet Nam and North Korea). Aside from credence and diplomatic exchanges with the US and 'port visits' here and there, nothing changes in Viet Nam. Viet Nam remains a Socialist-driven Communist Republic with a Constitution that is similar in all spects with that of the Chinese Constitution and model of Government.

Not all Viet Namese patriots are pro-democracy, nor are they in hoopla for American interventionism. Would you be surprised to know that a great many Vietnamse patriots view American with greater distrust than China? Well, a great many of them do.

Since U.S. did not protest that action, could I therefore conclude that U.S. has given up the sovereignty of Alaskan territorial water ?!

No, its called Reciprocal Determinism.

 

[gambit]

Patriotism is one of the key ingredients of war.

Ah...Yes.

It does not matter if the attack was on China proper or not. Those islands under our control holds Chinese personnels, infrastructures and military equipments. They are there to protect our national interests. Attack on those islands is an attack on our national interest. That alone is more than enough for us to enter a war, and the nation will be behind them.

Hence no one messes with China's development of those islands.

Yes, it does matter. Pearl Harbor was no tiny US outpost. Pearl Harbor was a major naval installation ON an island that have people, culture, economy, and government. The attack on Sept 11, 2001 was a direct assault against a major US city. You talk as if one day the US will make an assault on those artificial Chinese created island for no reasons.

WRONG.

Assume that your China draw first blood and attack a US flagged vessel under the shield of protecting national interests, China is not facing a military peer, no matter how often you bring out the word 'thermonuclear'. No, China will be facing a military that is preeminent in warfare and posses a hundred times the institutional knowledge of warfare than herself. The Chinese installations on those islands will be either wiped out or crippled in hrs, not days. Chinese sea access to those islands will be severed. No reinforcement.

The calculus for the Chinese government will be US vs China, as in the only targets left will be US home soil. Attack Hawaii and you can kiss all those national treasures on Beijing goodbye.

Do you really think your government is that foolish to risk an all out war, one that China will 99% lose, over those islands ?

 

[ahtan_china]

Do you honesly think you can kill 500k American on a war?? lol.

Let's recap shall we?

In WW2, China lost almost 20 millions people for merely holding on to the Japanese. American lost 1 millions fighting 2 wars.

In Korean war, China lost 150,000 with another 400,000 wounded fighting the American, American lost 50,000 and 130,000 wounded.

You honestly think you will only lose 1 million people when you make US lost 500,000? I admire your optimism. We suffer more than 200,000 Casualty fighint in Iraq and Afghanistan Of which about 40000 were killed and 160,000 wounded, Now do you think we can accept 500,000 Casualty?

S*h*i*t!
The military level of Iraq and Afghanistan are not absolutely match up with China! The China casualties are more more than USA because of without sky advantage in Korea war. The situation of PLA was a little bit better in Vietnam war. The Vietnam would be a "part" of USA if without the support of China at that time. But the China looks a winner in myanmar battle between the PLA special force and USA delta force around in 2003. So far no body reveal any details of the battle between the PLA special force and USA delta force.
The PLA will be a winner in Asian land.
The USA navy will be No.1 in Ocean.
For sky, who knows. I don't want to say J-20/J-31. Just refer the bid of anti sky missile system of Turkey. The PLA HQ-9 seems fine.
I don't believe that USA is confident like before when it meet PLA again.
Do you think the USA casualties will happen like situation which it meet Iraq?

 

[jhungary]

Allow me to point it out for you that your biggest enemy is self-deception: you seemed to believe that Chinese posters here can't see your motive behind your arguments. Why do you feel shame about your ethnicity and use false flag to engage discussion with Chinese poster here? Most Chinese posters are not annoyed by the hot discussion or the opposing views, but by the very fact that your intention and integrity are in doubt.

In relation to the quality of your arguments, I don't think you possessed the skills and quality to the degree you think you do. For instance, you claimed the Sydney metro train was Chinese made and the quality was not up to the high standard from your own experience of daily commuting by trains. When I asked you to come up with any local news coverage about this, you posted some video and news links about the delay of the commissioning of the Sydney metro train and mocked me by saying “where have you been for the past 10 years”. To your surprise the biggest irony of all these is only the steel body of the Sydney metro train was manufactured by Chinese co. in China, all the interior including computing control system were installed and finished in Australia by an Aussie/Japan joint venture co. And all the video and news links you posted were talking about computer glitch and sub-system malfunction, without any mention to the quality of Chinese train body work.

Therefore if you want to engage any serious discussion, and before calling others of trolling, it is time for you to do a reality check of yourself. Perhaps change your ethnicity flag to Vietnam for a start.

lol, now I doubt you were even in Australia at all. Or you are simply and blatantly lying.

First of all, you claim only the Cabin body was manufactured by Chinese, this is NOT TRUE.
In fact, according to both the Sydney Morning Herald and Manufacturer weekly, only the Driver and Guard Cabin of the train are build and assembled by the Australian in Cardiff Workshop.

Quoting Manufacturer Weekly

The cars of the Waratah train are built in China by Changchun Railway Vehicles Co Ltd (CRC), while the driver's and guard's cabins are manufactured at Cardiff in Newcastle by Downer EDI.

http://www.manmonthly.com.au/news/what-if-australia-had-made-the-waratah-trains-

Quoting Sydney Morning Herald

Downer will then redesign the interiors to make them easier to assemble in China. But over the life of the project the company will require an extra 770,000 hours of labour in Australia than it had previously planned for

The electric fit out and the interior fit-out were the responsibility of Chinese contractor. The Downer and Hitachi only responsible for implementing and design the software and the construction of driver and guard cabin.

Another point is that Sydney Train transport the first two train set back to China for refit due to the first two test train does not have any safety feature and air conditioning suggested that the interior of the train was worked in China instead of Australian, and to a point where refitting them in Cardiff plant would cost more than sending it back to China can be seen as a major fault how these Chinese train was.

Quote Daily telegraph

The test trains for the $3.6 billion project were to be sent from the Waratah facility at Auburn to Cardiff, near Newcastle, to be fitted.

But Downer EDI, the company assembling the trains, made the startling admission yesterday it had instead decided to send both trains to a manufacturing plant in Changchun, China at the Changchun Railway Vehicles Company (CRC) where all other new trains are being fitted.

The Train, being delayed for average 4 months which required the Cardiff plant to fix many of the mistake Chinese contractor made during the fabrication of the train as quote by the same SMH article

THE company building Sydney's new train carriages has conceded it will have to redo a significant amount of work in Australia, after revealing production problems at its Chinese subcontractor.

The Channel 10 News were supposed to high light how the train project delayed for 17 months and almost bankrupt the Australian Contractor Downer. You asked for proof the Aussie don't like the train when it rolled out, and proof that the train are poorly build, here another article by Daily Telegraph point out how wrong bolt supposed to be bolted to the seat find its way to waratah train.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...atah-train-seats/story-e6freuzi-1226080231113

The government yesterday revealed the latest farce to plague the delayed project, saying taxpayers would not be dragged in to fix the construction and financial "mess".

Last night RailCorp confirmed all 2176 seat fasteners on the first train had been replaced and was checking if as many as six trains needed the same replacement.

So, are there enough "Proof" for you to see the Chinese made train were troubled? You can find A LOT More by googling waratah train.

So there, either you are an emu (Which dug your head in the sand) or you are simply lying, END-OF-STORY

 

[xunzi]

As I said, if there were storm in the region, they were from the SCS to begin with, the Island in the SCS would be the one need humanitarian response, not the one giving it.

Listen to me, my friend. These islands will do just fine withstanding the storm. If Taiping Island in the Spratly (about 1/4 the size of our new 7 islands) can withstand the storm, ours will be just fine. Also mfriend, that is why you have to understand that our humanitarian response will always be quicker. Just take an example of the disappearing of MH370. Nobody had a clue where it gone missing because nobody tracks the aircraft since there is no radar in SCS. Well, guess what? After we finish the development of those islands, we'll be able to track any aircraft in SCS and immediately come to aid if anything happens. Think about that for second, my friend.

The electric fit out and the interior fit-out were the responsibility of Chinese contractor. The Downer and Hitachi only responsible for implementing and design the software and the construction of driver and guard cabin.

Another point is that Sydney Train transport the first two train set back to China for refit due to the first two test train does not have any safety feature and air conditioning suggested that the interior of the train was worked in China instead of Australian, and to a point where refitting them in Cardiff plant would cost more than sending it back to China can be seen as a major fault how these Chinese train was.

Quote Daily telegraph


The Train, being delayed for average 4 months which required the Cardiff plant to fix many of the mistake Chinese contractor made during the fabrication of the train as quote by the same SMH article



The Channel 10 News were supposed to high light how the train project delayed for 17 months and almost bankrupt the Australian Contractor Downer. You asked for proof the Aussie don't like the train when it rolled out, and proof that the train are poorly build, here another article by Daily Telegraph point out how wrong bolt supposed to be bolted to the seat find its way to waratah train.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...atah-train-seats/story-e6freuzi-1226080231113



So, are there enough "Proof" for you to see the Chinese made train were troubled? You can find A LOT More by googling waratah train.

So there, either you are an emu (Which dug your head in the sand) or you are simply lying, END-OF-STORY

What a load of crap. The Waratah train was YOUR Aussy design and Japan's Hitachi. We are only responsible for the steel structure body, build specification based on your design, and assemble by the Australia. Any internal system is not our problem. This train is your built and design. We are contract to build only the body. STOP blaming everything on us when your company contractors failed to properly inspect and doing a proper assembling. The design was a the flaw of your ally Hitachi, Japan.