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The Importance of Being Secular

see all your arguments don't give muslims positions of POWER.....Prime minister,army chief,RAW chief.....abdul kalam was a puppet...like the queen of britian....

1) by the way breaking of temples by no means justifies anything specially not SECULARISM...my point was why weren't hindu extremists put behind bars....why is the judgement not been delivered for 25 years.

2) ASHOKA's empire was not made on buddishm...once he converted to buddism he already had a huge HINDU empire that he left and went to modern day SRI LANKA..... this is was the biggest empire ever ruled by a HINDU RULER.....

3)RAW AT WAR-II

Raw at War-Genesis of Secret Agencies in Ancient India

4) Yes PRTHVI RAJ CHAHUAN is the guy who defated mehmood ghaznavi at the battle of PANI PATH....doesn't that signify hatred towards muslims..... AGNI in sanskrit means fire but it also means the GOD OF FIRE....google it up....

5) i think i answered you when u said RAW is not based on CHANKYA.....

too many coincidences....a span of 25 years without the final verdict...leads me to believe that maybe all miniorities in india are given rights except for muslims....yes they had a dummy president and yes anyone who could have made a bomb at the time would be allowed to doesn't matter if he is a muslim or HINDU or christian.

as for secularism....pakistan had a hindu and sikh in the army and a HINDU CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT.....but just because we didn't have it in the constitution we are not considered a SECULAR COUNTRY....however India that talks about Secularism in its law but doesn't implement it in letter and spirit is considered secular.....



Please note that Mahmoud Ghaznavi was not defeated by Prithvi Raj Chauhan. To the best of my knowledge Mahmoud never suffered any serious military setback. It was only after his death in 1030 that Saljuqis were able to throw Ghaznavids out of Iran.

The battle you are referring to is called the first Battle of Tarian, about 100 miles north of Delhi took place in 1191 AD 160 years after Mahmoud's death. The Muslim general on the defeated side was Sultan Muzzidin Mohammed bin Sam. At the time of the battles he was Governor of Eastern Provinces and his brother was the over all ruler from Ghor in northern Afghanistan. Mohammad Ghori however took his revenge at the second battle of Tarian in 1192
 
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Very generous and nice word for your countryman. It most likely straight form your heart. If that is the real India and if it does work for India than you have my best wishes. Good luck, live and let live....:tup:

My post was on behalf of every Indian and hopefully all the Indian members in this forum will agree with me?
 
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yes India is SECULAR great to know this but unfortunately these videos paint a diffrent picture....if we get a video of muslim flogging the world calls us EXTREMEST MUSLIM NATION....india does it then they r called just a handful of people.....

i recommend going and watching videos of Gujrat riots,BABUR BAJRANGI,BABRI MASJID and all.i had earlier uploaded the videos here but then they r so horrific that it is better if i write about them rather than put them up....




GOOD for you guys u guys have alot of secularism prevailing.....in INDIA...the world should learn SECULARISM from INDIA.....and by the way BABU BAJRANGI is out and free Bal thackrey is free and ADVANI is free let's not talk about JAGDISH TYTLER having been given a clean sheet because after all SIKHS are given more rights than muslims....
 
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all i am saying is in a SECULAR COUNTRY SUCH MEN R HUNG FROM the street lights pole.....and you say that in INDIA the cases take a long time....ok fine point taken let's see how quickly the case of Ajmal the kasab DOG is finished....if that takes even half as long as the babri masjid case i guess then your HYPOTHESIS is correct.....

my friend you wish you lived in a utopian SECULAR society but that is just a mirage you have currently.....the establishment is strong the feelings run deep into the society...
 
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my friend i think i have made a mistake through out this argument i have been more clear i was talking about the MUSLIM minority...see i could have brought up the Sikh riots but i didn't because Sikhs have been given more rights then the muslim.....but i am just sticking to the case of the biggest minoirty within india.....
 
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Please note that Mahmoud Ghaznavi was not defeated by Prithvi Raj Chauhan. To the best of my knowledge Mahmoud never suffered any serious military setback. It was only after his death in 1030 that Saljuqis were able to throw Ghaznavids out of Iran.

The battle you are referring to is called the first Battle of Tarian, about 100 miles north of Delhi took place in 1191 AD 160 years after Mahmoud's death. The Muslim general on the defeated side was Sultan Muzzidin Mohammed bin Sam. At the time of the battles he was Governor of Eastern Provinces and his brother was the over all ruler from Ghor in northern Afghanistan. Mohammad Ghori however took his revenge at the second battle of Tarian in 1192

thank you niaz but i thought that Ghaznavi was defeated once at panipath then came back with a stronger army and eventually defeated PRTHVI RAJ CHUAHAN...but thanks for clearing that up.
 
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like i mentioned earlier if pakistan had a JEW who wished to make a bomb for us or knew how to make it...we would have allowed him to and ofcourse....as for presidents rights on paper please you know it and i know it how many orders have the presidents ever passed....in the british system it is always the Prime minsiter having all the powers...if u want to argue something on paper then yes on paper the laws don't define what a HINDU is.....my friend i live abroad i see alot of indian muslims and alot of them are my friends trust me things are not as simple as you put it.....
 
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Hindutva —Terrorism's New Signature

By Subhash Gatade

12 October, 2007
Countercurrents.org

May it be the suicide bombers of LTTE or the jihadists of Al Qaeda or ET guerillas working for a Basque region or the remnants of the Khalistani terrorists or for that matter terrorism unleashed by groups owning allegiance to the Hindutva brigade, the phenomenon of terrorism could be said to span every community or country in different measures.

India, has also of late witnessed a spurt in terrorist attacks. Recently we were told India stands among the top five countries of the world which are susceptible to a terrorist attack.

While nobody can deny the role of jihadi terrorists belonging to the likes of Lashkar-e-Toiba or Jaish-e-Mohammad in many such bloody and inhuman incidents, one feels pertrubed over the mono-chromatic presentation of such a complex phenomenon where green tends to dominate the rest. The conspiracy of silence over the phenomenon of what is known in popular parlance as 'Hindutva terrorism' needs to be questioned and confronted. ...The fanatics who spread violence in the name of religion are worse than terrorists and more dangerous than an alien enemy... (Quoted in the Supreme Court judgement in the Best Bakery Case)

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Nanded, a city in Maharashtra, which has a significant population of different religious communities — Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs as well as Buddhists — should ideally have become a new metaphor for secularism as it is enlivened/practised in Indian subcontinent.
But sadly it is not so!

In fact, it represents today the newly emergent danger of majoritarian terrorism with due support from a section of the state machinery. A place which was once witness to the last days of Guru Gobind Singh, the last of the Sikh Gurus, has today metamorphosed itself into an important epicentre of Hindutva terrorist activities.

It was evident in two explosions the city witnessed within a span of nine months (April 2006 and February 2007) at the house of activists of RSS/Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sena resulting in death of four people. Arrival of Nanded on the 'terror' map of India was followed by exposures about some earlier incidents as well — which similarly showed involvement of Hindu youths in terrorist actions.

Of course the story does not begin and end at Nanded nor can it be said that it is a Maharashtra centric phenomenon. Exchief minister of Madhya Pradesh Digvijay Singh has on record admitted the involvement of groups/individuals affiliated with RSS in some similar acts in Madhya Pradesh. One can also look for similar leads in different extreme actions undertaken by the Hindu right.

The biggest problem in this connection seems to be the near absence of Muslims or Sikhs in the different intelligence wings of the government. As a cover story in the weekly newsmagazine 'Outlook' titled 'Muslims and Sikhs Need Not Apply' ( Saikat Datta, Nov 13, 2006) puts it barring IB (Intelligence Bureau) which has a handful of Muslim officers none of the other wings of intelligence even have a single Muslim officer in its ranks. 1
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Individuals associated with Hindutva outfits like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Bajrang Dal are developing terror networks in north Maharashtra targeting the region's Muslim population. ...

The narco-analysis and brain-mapping reports, which are with Tehelka, reveal that the accused were being aided by state-level VHP and Bajrang Dal officials to execute bomb blasts at mosques in Parbhani, Jalna and Purna in central Maharashtra... (Shaswat Gupta Ray, The Tehelka, December 30, 2006)

An exclusive report 'Nanded Blast: The Hindu Hand' by Shashwat Gupta Ray (Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine) which revealed the manner in which local Sangh Parivar members were installing their own terror networks did not cause any furore.

Of course the reaction was on expected lines. In fact one had witnessed similar 'conspiracy of silence' when the actual blast had occured (6 th April 2006) in a house belonging to an old activist of RSS called Laxman Rajkondwar. The explosion had snuffed lives out of two youngsters who happened to be members of RSS/ Bajrang Dal. While Himanshu Panse, was found to be blown into pieces where his hands and legs literally lied scattered; Naresh, son of the houseowner had succumbed to injuries in the chest. Three youngsters who were later admitted to a hospital had suffered serious body injuries.

To be precise, it was the time when L.K.Advani's Bharat Suraksha Yatra was to enter the state of Maharashtra. A raid on one of the deceased's house had recovered dresses and caps normally worn by Muslims in the area and also some maps of mosques in nearby districts. One of the accused Rahul confessed to having made bombs earlier.

The idea was to attack mosques and Gurudwaras wearing those dresses and instigate a communal conflict. The expectation was that the community under attack would retaliate and a full scale riot would ensue. The only thing needed was explosives in one form or other which could cause maximum damage to the places hit. The making of bombs in a house owned by a old RSS activists who supposedly dealt in fircrackers also seemed rather perfect..

Part of the Nizam's state till its annexation, Nanded has had a history of communal tensions which have aggravated since the demolition of Babri Mosque.(1992) While Hindu's comprised the majority (5 lakhs), Muslims came second (2 lakhs) and Sikhs came third (l Lakh). The city had witnessed communal riots in the beginning of the year 2004 also when a group of miscreants riding a motorcycle had thrown bombs into a large congregation of Muslims in Parbhani, a city not very far from Nanded where they had assembled for their Friday prayers.While embers at Parbhani had died down soon, it took time for the police to control the situation in other cities and towns in Marathwada then, including Nanded. The miscreants who had thrown bombs in the congregation could never be found then. Incidentally the narco test of the accused in Nanded blasts revealed that this group of Hindu terrorists had only executed the criminal attack in Parbhani.

The most disturbing thing about the Nanded blasts is the lack of sincerity on part of the investigating agencies in pursuing the case, despite getting enough evidence that district and state leaders of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and RSS were involved in conceiving and executing the plan.

Hindutva —Terrorism's New Signature By Subhash Gatade
 
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this is what i am talking about that in name india might be secular but ground realities are such that RSS BAJRANG DAL AND VHP get a free hand to make there own LAW.....and let's not forget COLENEL PRAHOT...the man behind samjhota express BLAST....again no judgement on that case either.....
 
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^^^ Stop spreading lies, colonel purohit is not accused in the samzauta blast case.

He's accused in malegaon blast case, accused of supplying the explosives used. He's been sacked from the army, is in jail and will be tried in a civilian court.
 
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fateh i didn't mean to spread "LIES" change ur tone i don't work for u...!!!! and EINTSTEIN ofcourse he is court marshalled ofcourse he is in jail and ofcourse the decision will come sometime in the next 50 years ....by then he would probably be dead just like most of the babri masjid culprits are dying of old age.....
 
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thank you niaz but i thought that Ghaznavi was defeated once at panipath then came back with a stronger army and eventually defeated PRTHVI RAJ CHUAHAN...but thanks for clearing that up.

Respectfully state that the above is historiclly incorrect. There is no record of Mahmoud ever fighting at Panipat. Mahmoud sacked Qannoj in 1018 (Parithara Rajputs). Mahmoud died in 1030. At that time seat of Chauhan Rajputs was Ajmer. Chauhans changed the seat of govt to Delhi in the early 1100s. Mahmoud was long dead by then. Mahmoud Ghaznavi and Prithvi Raj Chauhan are not contemporaries. There are three known battles of Panipat.

First battle of Panipat: Babur and Ibrahim Lodhi -1526

Second battle of Panipat: Akbar/ Bairam Khan and Hemu Baqqal commanding troops for Adil Shah Suri -1556

Third battle of Panipat: Ahmad Shah Abdali and Marhattas led by Sadashivrao -1761
 
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fateh i didn't mean to spread "LIES" change ur tone i don't work for u...!!!! and EINTSTEIN ofcourse he is court marshalled ofcourse he is in jail and ofcourse the decision will come sometime in the next 50 years ....by then he would probably be dead just like most of the babri masjid culprits are dying of old age.....

Again, he's NOT accused in the samjhauta blast case, thats a lie.

And a welcome realization that tones can be irritating. Thank you. Now stick to the topic and post abt secularism and not india's conviction rates.
 
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Again, he's NOT accused in the samjhauta blast case, thats a lie.

And a welcome realization that tones can be irritating. Thank you. Now stick to the topic and post abt secularism and not india's conviction rates.

fine he is accused in the malegon case i said i didn't MEAN 2 SPREAD "LIES" do u want me to thank u for that....i don't think u require that cuz plenty of boys out there jump to thank you for any jibbrish u seem to be writing....love the pack of hyenas out there...for each one post of mine i get 10.... and i am sticking to the topic if u saw i posted a link above where it says that the governemt and the law followed what was exptected of them by not prosecuting the HINDU EXTREMISTS as well as there are not many muslims any other intelligence agency of INDIA except for Intelligence bureau.....

now u stick to the topic little :angel: note i can also change my tone but would be better off by not doing so!!!:coffee:
 
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Respectfully state that the above is historiclly incorrect. There is no record of Mahmoud ever fighting at Panipat. Mahmoud sacked Qannoj in 1018 (Parithara Rajputs). Mahmoud died in 1030. At that time seat of Chauhan Rajputs was Ajmer. Chauhans changed the seat of govt to Delhi in the early 1100s. Mahmoud was long dead by then. Mahmoud Ghaznavi and Prithvi Raj Chauhan are not contemporaries. There are three known battles of Panipat.

First battle of Panipat: Babur and Ibrahim Lodhi -1526

Second battle of Panipat: Akbar/ Bairam Khan and Hemu Baqqal commanding troops for Adil Shah Suri -1556

Third battle of Panipat: Ahmad Shah Abdali and Marhattas led by Sadashivrao -1761


thank you sir sorry i had got confused between ghauri and ghaznavi....and also the battles of pani path and tarain....:cheers:
 
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