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The Importance of Being Secular

see all your arguments don't give muslims positions of POWER.....Prime minister,army chief,RAW chief.....abdul kalam was a puppet...like the queen of britian....

1) by the way breaking of temples by no means justifies anything specially not SECULARISM...my point was why weren't hindu extremists put behind bars....why is the judgement not been delivered for 25 years.

2) ASHOKA's empire was not made on buddishm...once he converted to buddism he already had a huge HINDU empire that he left and went to modern day SRI LANKA..... this is was the biggest empire ever ruled by a HINDU RULER.....

3)RAW AT WAR-II

Raw at War-Genesis of Secret Agencies in Ancient India

4) Yes PRTHVI RAJ CHAHUAN is the guy who defated mehmood ghaznavi at the battle of PANI PATH....doesn't that signify hatred towards muslims..... AGNI in sanskrit means fire but it also means the GOD OF FIRE....google it up....

5) i think i answered you when u said RAW is not based on CHANKYA.....

too many coincidences....a span of 25 years without the final verdict...leads me to believe that maybe all miniorities in india are given rights except for muslims....yes they had a dummy president and yes anyone who could have made a bomb at the time would be allowed to doesn't matter if he is a muslim or HINDU or christian.

as for secularism....pakistan had a hindu and sikh in the army and a HINDU CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT.....but just because we didn't have it in the constitution we are not considered a SECULAR COUNTRY....however India that talks about Secularism in its law but doesn't implement it in letter and spirit is considered secular.....
 
It has always been maintained that there are certain segments in society which create michief and cause communal tension. Try as they may to disrupt the spirit of Secularism here but they will never be successful. Example: there are terrorists in Pakistan does that make Pakistan a terrorist State, I think not. There are issues and cases when justice has not been metted out to Minorities but so has been the case with Hindus as well. So many Hindu murders go unsolved. Kasmiri Pundits are living as refugees. If extremist Hindu Organization was active it was nabbed by police and they are being dealt with.


Regards,

i guess if the LAW is upheld in letter and spirit SECULARISM in INDIA CAN prevail.....when the miniorites get the justice that they have been seeking for a long long time.....but until then my point that INDIA currently is NOT SECULAR i think holds sway....:tup:
 
Correct. It doesn't exist on planet Zob. On planet Earth, however, it exists.



Hmmmmm do u really want to go down that road.... well i guess PAKISTAN IS A SECULAR COUNTRY according to the definitions....ADVANI the man behind BABRI MASJID....is running for PRIME MINSITER....SECULARISM....25 years and no justice on the babri masjid case....nearly 30 years and no justice on jagdeep tytler case.... secularism....however AJMAL KASAB case starts within 3 months and i guess in the next 3 he will be hanged....but well i guess he should be fu*king hanged 2DAY!!!!!!!!! that son of a dog........!!
 
Who decides that President of country is a puppet? I think it's and Insult. Anyways are you even aware what he did before he was president?
He was heading the missle development program for India. Is that a position of power



And again I'd mention that these positions are to be earned and not awarded on the basis of religion. and We as a secular nation do not see them as a muslim president, A sikh Prime Minister or a Christian Raw cheif but as an Indian President an Indian Army Cheif and an Indian Raw Cheif.

25 YEARS
. Boy, you surely are on a time machine. Do you even know when demolition occured and when was case filed. Please refer to wikipedia links provided earlier to you.

We both understand how judicial system works in India and Pakistan. I can quote 100 cases where decesions are not made for 50 years specally property disputes can linger on for decades.

Ashok Chakra is also known as Dharm Chakra and is symbol of Buddhism. It is found not only in India but even in Thailand, where Ashoka preached Buddhism.
Dharmacakra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In India it was built in Sarnath, first preaching place for Buddha.
Sarnath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would reference to mehmood ghaznavi insult muslims. I dont see the logic.

Agni means FIRE and Agni Dev is the deity.

about RAW you have ignored the second part
nyways wat is wrong with Chankya I mean he was a philosopher with his theory on Diplomacy. Would India be secular only if RAW worked like Changez Khan??? Read up more about Chanakya here: Chanakya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We have had not just one but 6 presidents from Minority. Not 1 but 3 Prime Ministers from Minority What else do you expect? (Courtsy WTF)

Last cheif of RAW was Christian.

6 Muslim and in all 12 Cheif Justice have been from minority in India
Chief Justice of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Too many coincidences: I say none.

PS: set you clock right.
 
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in the british system the President or the QUEEN is more less just a show piece prime minster calls al lthe shots what's the name of your current president lady most of my indian friends don't even know....and yes as for KALAM like i said at that point any guy who could make a nuclear bomb would have been hired same goes for pakistan even if dr.Qadeer was a jew he would have been allowed 2 make the bomb!! cuz we needed it....

25 years sorry was thinknig along the lines of OPERATION BLUE STAR ....so stop your time machine story and the ONLY REASON I AM NOT BRINING UP SIKHS is because sikhs r getting some sort of rights by having an UNELCTED PRIME MINSTER.....


since when was nehru calssifed an atheist and if he was an antheist...and when did atheism become a religious minority....and manmohan singh is unelcted....and come on u kidding me GANDHI being a non hindu....

as for cheif justice well PAKISTAN had a hindu chief justice do we have a secular country now...???
 
in the british system the President or the QUEEN is more less just a show piece prime minster calls al lthe shots what's the name of your current president lady most of my indian friends don't even know....and yes as for KALAM like i said at that point any guy who could make a nuclear bomb would have been hired same goes for pakistan even if dr.Qadeer was a jew he would have been allowed 2 make the bomb!! cuz we needed it....

25 years sorry was thinknig along the lines of OPERATION BLUE STAR ....so stop your time machine story and the ONLY REASON I AM NOT BRINING UP SIKHS is because sikhs r getting some sort of rights by having an UNELCTED PRIME MINSTER.....in


since when was nehru calssifed an atheist and if he was an antheist...and when did atheism become a religious minority....and manmohan singh is unelcted....and come on u kidding me GANDHI being a non hindu....

as for cheif justice well PAKISTAN had a hindu chief justice do we have a secular country now...???

President of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The President of India enjoys the following powers:

[edit]
Executive powers

The Constitution vests in the President of India all the executive powers of the Central Government. The President appoints the Prime Minister the person most likely to command the support of the majority in the Lok Sabha (usually the leader of the majority party or coalition). The President then appoints the other members of the Council of Ministers, distributing portfolios to them on the advice of the Prime Minister.

The Council of Ministers remains in power during the 'pleasure' of the President. In practice, however, the Council of Ministers must retain the support of the Lok Sabha. If a President were to dismiss the Council of Ministers on his or her own initiative, it might trigger a constitutional crisis. Thus, in practice, the Council of Ministers cannot be dismissed as long as it commands the support of a majority in the Lok Sabha.

The President is responsible for making a wide variety of appointments. These include:
Governors of States
The Chief Justice and other judges of the Supreme Court and High Courts
The Attorney General
The Comptroller and Auditor General
The Chief Election Commissioner and other Election Commissioners
The Chairman and other Members of the Union Public Service Commission
Ambassadors and High Commissioners to other countries.

The President also receives the credentials of Ambassadors and High Commissioners from other countries.

The President is the de jure Commander in Chief of the Indian Armed Forces.

The President of India can grant a pardon to or reduce the sentence of a convicted person, particularly in cases involving punishment of death.

The decisions involving pardoning and other rights by the president are independent of the opinion of the Prime Minister or the Lok Sabha majority. In most other cases, however, the President exercises his or her executive powers on the advice of the Prime Minister.

[edit]
Financial powers

Money bills can be introduced in the Parliament only on the prior recommendation of the President. He also causes to be laid before the Parliament the annual financial statement which is the Union Budget. Further no demand for grant shall be made except on his recommendation.He can also make advances out of the Contingency Fund of India to meet any unforeseen expenditure.Moreover, he constitutes the Finance Commission every 5 years to recommend the distribution of taxes between the States and the Centre.

[edit]
Judicial powers

The president appoints the Chief Justice of the Union Judiciary and other judges on the advice of the Chief Justice. In practice, these judges are actually selected by the Union cabinet. The President dismisses the judges if and only if the two Houses of the Parliament pass resolutions to that effect by two-thirds majority of the members present.

If they consider a question of law or a matter of public importance has arisen they can ask for the advisory opinion of the Supreme Court. They may or may not accept that opinion.

[edit]
Legislative powers

The President summons both houses of the Parliament and prorogues them. He or she can even dissolve the Lok Sabha. These powers are formal, and by convention, the President uses these powers according to the advice of the Council of Ministers headed by the Prime Minister.

They inaugurate the Parliament by addressing it after the general elections and also at the beginning of the first session each year. Their address on these occasions is generally meant to outline the new policies of the government.

A bill that the Parliament has passed, can become a law only after the President gives his/her assent to it. The President can return a bill to the Parliament, if it is not a money bill, for reconsideration. However, if the Parliament sends it back to them for the second time, the President is obliged to assent to it.

When the Parliament is not in session and the government considers it necessary to have a law, then the President can promulgate ordinances. These ordinances are submitted to the Parliament at its next session. They remain valid for no more than six weeks from the date the Parliament is convened unless approved by it earlier.

[edit]
Diplomatic Powers

All international treaties and agreements are negotiated and concluded on behalf of the President. However, in practice, such negotiations are usually carried out by the Prime Minister alongwith his Cabinet (especially the Foreign Minister). Also, such treaties are subject to the approval of the Parliament. The President represents India in international forums and affairs where such a function is chiefly ceremonial. The President may also send and recieve diplomats like Ambassadors and High Commissioners.

[edit]
Military Powers

The President is the supreme commander of the defence forces of India, in this capacity the president can appoint Army, Navy & Air Chiefs. The President can declare war or conclude peace, subject to the approval of parliament.

[edit]
Emergency powers

The President can declare three types of emergencies: national, state and financial.

[edit]
National emergency

National emergency is caused by war, external aggression or armed rebellion in the whole of India or a part of its territory. Such an emergency was declared in India in 1962 (Indo-China war), 1965 (Indo-Pakistan war), 1975 and 1977 (declared by Indira Gandhi on account of "internal disturbance").

Under Article 352 of the India Constitution the President can declare such an emergency only on the basis of a written request by the Council of Ministers headed by the Prime Minister. Such a proclamation must be approved by the Parliament within one month. Such an emergency can be imposed for six months. It can be extended by six months by repeated parliamentary approval.

In such an emergency, Fundamental Rights of Indian citizens can be suspended. The six freedoms under Right to Freedom are automatically suspended. However, the Right to Life and Personal Liberty cannot be suspended.

The Parliament can make laws on the 66 subjects of the State List (which contains subjects on which the state governments can make laws). Also, all money bills are referred to the Parliament for its approval. The term of the Lok Sabha can be extended by a period of up to one year, but not so as to extend the term of Parliament beyond six months after the end of the declared emergency.

[edit]
State emergency

State emergency, also known as President's rule, is declared due to breakdown of constitutional machinery in a state.

If the President is satisfied, on the basis of the report of the Governor of the concerned state or from other sources that the governance in a state cannot be carried out according to the provisions in the Constitution, he/she can declare a state of emergency in the state. Such an emergency must be approved by the Parliament within a period of six months.

Under Article 356 of the Indian Constitution, it can be imposed from six months to a maximum period of three years with repeated parliamentary approval every six months. If the emergency needs to be extended for more than three years, this can be achieved by a constitutional amendment, as has happened in Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir.

During such an emergency, the President can take over the entire work of the executive, and the Governor administers the state in the name of the President. The Legislative Assembly can be dissolved or may remain in suspended animation. The Parliament makes laws on the 66 subjects of the state list (see National emergency for explanation). All money bills have to be referred to the Parliament for approval.

On 19 January 2009, President's rule was imposed on the Indian State of Jharkhand making it the latest state where this kind of emergency has been imposed.

A State Emergency can be imposed via the following:

1.By Article 356:-If that state failed to run constitutionally. i.e. Constitutional machinery has failed

2.By Article 365:-If that state is not working according to the given direction of the Union Government.

This type of emergency needs the approval of the parliament within 2 months. This type of emergency can last up to a maximum of 3 years via extensions after each 6 month period. However, after one year it can be extended only if

1.A state of National Emergency has been declared in the country or in the particular state.

2.The Election Commission finds it difficult to organize an election in that state.

[edit]
Financial emergency

If the President is satisfied that there is an economic situation in which the financial stability or credit of India is threatened, he/she can proclaim financial emergency as per the Constitutional Article 360. Such an emergency must be approved by the Parliament within two months. It has never been declared. On a previous occasion, the financial stability or credit of India has indeed been threatened, but a financial emergency was avoided through the selling off of India's gold reserves.

A state of financial emergency remains in force indefinitely until revoked by the President.

In case of a financial emergency, the President can reduce the salaries of all government officials, including judges of the Supreme Court and High Courts. All money bills passed by the State legislatures are submitted to the President for his approval. They can direct the state to observe certain principles (economy measures) relating to financial matters.

Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed, which nuclear bomb did he make, Zail Singh, which missile program was he part of, Mohammad Hidayatullah which milliatary was he commander of, Zakir Hussain, who did not make AGNI. In case you are wonderng who they are, they are former presidents OF INDIA.

Does Dr. Manmohan singh have lesser power than Atal bihari?

Nehru was an Athiest:
Atheists claim Nehru http://www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org/Quotes.htm,
or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism#Prominent_atheists

What about this “The spectacle of what is called religion, or at any rate organized religion, in India and elsewhere, has filled us with horror, and I have frequently condemned it and wished to make a clean sweep of it.”
– Jawaharlal Nehru

or
“I want nothing to do with any religion concerned with keeping the masses satisfied to live in hunger, *****, and ignorance. I want nothing to do with any order, religious or otherwise, which does not teach people that they are capable of becoming happier and more civilized on this earth, capable of becoming master of his fate and captain of his soul.”

Rana Bhagwandas was made cheif justice after sacking of Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry just because Musharraf wanted his decesions to prevail and that my dear friend is known as pupper Cheif justice.

Indira Gandhi married a Parsi, which is entirely different religion and not even based in India.
 
Guys I've replied to ZOB on another thread, he's copy pasting the same stuff on all threads. Really its a dead horse, lets stop beating it. He does not know what is secularism, he thinks secularism is a muslim PM :) and of course a sikh PM - he calls him a puppet - but a puppet of who? he'll not answer that, because some people (wrongly) do call Mr Singh a puppet, but of a Roman Catholic lady :) or he calls APJ Abdul Kalam a puppet, yes sir the same puppet who headed our critical defence programs :)

so according to him secularism = a muslim PM, hey thats the constitution of Pakistan :) Yes one must be a muslim to be PM of pakistan, so he thinks pakistan is secular :hitwall:

So he's right, as per his definition, india is indeed not secular. Mr Zob, you win, now pls spare us and stop copy pasting the same article on all threads. Thank you.
 
"Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh, a sikh' - Zaid Hamid.

That is secularism. Promoting a Popular Muslim as Sikh/Hindu. Yeah and Pakistan is actually secular.

LOL Fateh, I didn't compliment you earlier but your signature is actually cute.
 
The Parsi, Jains and Buddhists are other versions of Hinduism.

:rofl::rofl:


just sit back and think one thing do u have an example in secular india where muslims destroyed HINDU TEMPLES ....and if they did how swift was the judgement is it still pending......
How can muslims dare to destroy a Hindu temple? They are the minority. You want them to have equal rights to destroy?:taz:


@swapnil
Nice post

The temple entry definition of Hindus is manipulated as you mentioned. That is really good work to inform people here who are misled.

@Zob
Our constitution says we are secular. We believe we are secular. All government institutions here are bound to be secular. The equality in opportunities here means we are secular. People inside the country run around trying to ensure this without others bothering us.

By your definition no country is a nation. No man is truely muslim or Hindu.... No ice cream is really sweet:argh:

If you are ashamed that you are not secular then so be it. Why do you want to change definitions or make them so fine that nobody can stick to them?

the indian ideology is of AKHAND BHARAT.....the EMBLEM of INDIA is that of ASHOKA'S INDIA....ashoka who after the war of KALINGA got so fed up of bloodshed that he converted himself to buddhism and left his throne.

all indian missiles have been named after hindu idols PRTHVI ...after PRTHVI RAJ CHAUHAN...AGNI fter the GOD OF FIRE....TRISHUL the weapon carried by GANESHA.......

RAW has been made on the ideology of CHANKYA who was a BRAHMAN hindu....

I have clarified regarding this already.
Akhand Bharat means united (undivided) India not Greater India as some people here claim. Nor there is a policy in India in that direction. Any such policy would not be a secret obviously.
The emblem of India is taken from a stupa of the greatest emperor of ancient India. It is significant for the following reasons - its ancient, Asoka's empire was great and most importantly it upholds thevalues of Indian freedom movemnet when it says 'Satya meva Jayate', it signifies peace. I don't see any reason against the adoption of this as emblem.

For the nth time, Prithvi means 'earth'. Any Indians first thought if he hears a name prithvi is that it means earth. If it were not for a book called 'Prithviraj Raso' his name would not have been that much famous. Even after he fought Ghauri. To my knowledge Hindus are not taught of him as a hero just because he fought muslims.
Anyway none of this matters because that Prithvi does not refer to him.
Agni literally means fire and Trishul is a weapon. These names are not out of place. unless you are paranoid about these names being hindu. I can say they are Indian. And remember, they serve Indian muslims too.


Chanakya's was not an ideology. RAW follows modern rules and tactics of espionage not like some people here insist on Sharia without regard to relevance today.

So all this is just paranoia.
You call these coincidences?! I pity you. These are harmless events that were mentioned in your papers and books to spread hatred against India.
Ask any Indian what he thinks of the word prithvi. He ll say earth unless he got feedback from Pakistani channels.
 
Prithvi is earth
Aakash is Sky
Agni is fire
Nag means Cobra
Trishul means trident
Dhanush means bow
surya means the sun

thats i think all indian missiles, where's prithviraj chauhan??? :crazy:

India's latest UAV is named Rustom! The great persian general? :crazy: hopeless.
 
The Parsi, Jains and Buddhists are other versions of Hinduism.
How did I miss this masterpiece.
2577dff94fe36193f1004ff83ff7d002.gif
 
Members of this forum who think India is not secular are probably right because there is only one religion in India and that is the 'Indian Religion'. We are discouraged to practice every other religion that goes against the 'Indian Religion'.

People belonging to this religion, like Abdul Hamid, have made supreme sacrifices for the country and earned the country's highest military decoration- the 'Param Vir Chakra'. Other brave soldiers belonging to this religion and recipients of the 'Maha Vir Chakra' include- Mohammed Ismail, Lt. Col Salim Caleb and Mohammed Usman.

A follower of this religion Idris Hasan Latif led the Air Force of the country valiantly as Air Chief Marshal from 1978 to 1981.

Brigadier Mohammad Usman, the highest rank officer of Indian Army killed in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947, became immortal and still lives on in our hearts as a true ambassador for the 'Indian Religion'.

Sons of this religion were not to be left behind in the field of Science and technology. A.P.J.Abdul Kalam became the father of the Indian missile program. Salim Ali, Obaid Siddiqui and Zahoor Qasim made us proud at the International stage. Dr. Qaiser Baqri, Dr. Husain Zaheerex and Faizan Ahmad are other notable sons of the 'Indian Religion'.

They led from the fore front in strengthening the economy. Azim Premji's Wipro is a shining example of modern India. Built from scratch and now leading India's IT revolution, providing jobs to thousands of brilliant young minds and generating precious foreign exchange for the govt through its humongous exports. A right blend of charity and business is Wockhardt, founded by Fakhruddin T. Khorakiwala. A noted economist of International repute is Abid Hussain who has been instrumental in shaping India's foriegn trade policies and now a member of the International Panel on Democracy and Development of UNESCO.

He was arrogant, showed disdain to a lot of people in the world. He sweared at them and all they could do was admire his skill. Well that was his job and Mohammad Azharuddin was mighty adept at it. Leading the country to countless victories and gaining respect all over the world for it. Zaheer Khan, Irfan Pathan and Yusuf Pathan amongst countless others have been instrumental in transforming the Indian cricket team as one of the mightiest in the world today.

My apologies to all the great Artists, Sportsmen, Politicians, Lawmakers, Soldiers, Scientists, Businessmen, Academicians, Scholars and other notable persons belonging to the 'Indian Religion'. Whose names I have missed out in the above account of mine. There are just far too many of them, probably they number in millions and it is absolutely impossible to acknowledge all of their mighty efforts in our nation building.

A Hindu singing a Christian prayer in a convent, a Muslim awaiting Diwali with bated breath to burst crackers with friends, A Christian visiting a langar in a Gurudwara to taste the lovely food, A Pharsi hitting on a cute Sikh girl in class and a Sikh leading the country as Prime Minister to great heights are the hallmarks of the 'Indian Religion'.
 
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Members of this forum who think India is not secular are probably right because there is only one religion in India and that is the 'Indian Religion'. We are discouraged to practice every other religion that goes against the 'Indian Religion'.

People belonging to this religion, like Abdul Hamid, have made supreme sacrifices for the country and earned the country's highest military decoration- the 'Param Vir Chakra'. Other brave soldiers belonging to this religion and recipients of the 'Maha Vir Chakra' include- Mohammed Ismail, Lt. Col Salim Caleb and Mohammed Usman.

A follower of this religion Idris Hasan Latif led the Air Force of the country valiantly as Air Chief Marshal from 1978 to 1981.

Brigadier Mohammad Usman, the highest rank officer of Indian Army killed in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947, became immortal and still lives on in our hearts as a true ambassador for the 'Indian Religion'.

Sons of this religion were not to be left behind in the field of Science and technology. A.P.J.Abdul Kalam became the father of the Indian missile program. Salim Ali, Obaid Siddiqui and Zahoor Qasim made us proud at the International stage. Dr. Qaiser Baqri, Dr. Husain Zaheerex and Faizan Ahmad are other notable sons of the 'Indian Religion'.

They led from the fore front in strengthening the economy. Azim Premji's Wipro is a shining example of modern India. Built from scratch and now leading India's IT revolution, providing jobs to thousands of brilliant young minds and generating precious foreign exchange for the govt through its humongous exports. A right blend of charity and business is Wockhardt, founded by Fakhruddin T. Khorakiwala. A noted economist of International repute is Abid Hussain who has been instrumental in shaping India's foriegn trade policies and now a member of the International Panel on Democracy and Development of UNESCO.

He was arrogant, showed disdain to a lot of people in the world. He sweared at them and all they could do was admire his skill. Well that was his job and Mohammad Azharuddin was mighty adept at it. Leading the country to countless victories and gaining respect all over the world for it. Zaheer Khan, Irfan Pathan and Yusuf Pathan amongst countless others have been instrumental in transforming the Indian cricket team as one of the mightiest in the world today.

My apologies to all the great Artists, Sportsmen, Politicians, Lawmakers, Soldiers, Scientists, Businessmen, Academicians, Scholars and other notable persons belonging to the 'Indian Religion'. Whose names I have missed out in the above account of mine. There are just far too many of them, probably they number in millions and it is absolutely impossible to acknowledge all of their mighty efforts in our nation building.

A Hindu singing a Christian prayer in a convent, a Muslim awaiting Diwali with bated breath to burst crackers with friends, A Christian visiting a langar in a Gurudwara to taste the lovely food, A Pharsi hitting on a cute Sikh girl in class and a Sikh leading the country as Prime Minister to great heights are the hallmarks of the 'Indian Religion'.

Very generous and nice word for your countryman. It most likely straight form your heart. If that is the real India and if it does work for India than you have my best wishes. Good luck, live and let live....:tup:
 
You test India's secularity by counting non-Hindus at the key positions?

This shows you don't understand the secularism.

The proof we are secular is -

WE NEVER COUNT REFERRING RELIGION.
 
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