The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[Raphael]

No. What I am saying is that it is NOT in China's interests to have a Cold War, and the front for that war is in its backyard.

America has grown so prominent, because for the last 1 century it has been the undisputed regional hegemon, and all the front lines have been very far off from American territory. Also, Choosing Russia over other Europe will be foolish.

Till the time comes when China can create a quid pro quo in American backyard, don't attempt anything foolish. You DON'T want a front line in your backyard.

The next 10 years will be crucial precisely because America will try to contain, and China must play it smart. China must keep its head down and bid its time. The time has not yet come. The time will be when China's military is undisputed king in its regional environment, both in quantity and quality, and China is technologically as advanced as America.

If there ever comes a time when you have to choose between Russia and Europe, choose Europe or be neutral. You don't want a cold war, and remain on a loosing side. Russia will lose a cold war. It is as simple as that. It has got no one surrounding it, that actually likes it. Not even Belarus. Belarus just doesn't have any other options.

Interesting comment. I'm currently terribly busy, but will get back to it.

 

[Kyle Sun]

lol..you still havent answered me about your claim that you can beat USN and JMSDF together

if we are going to have andfull scale war with usa or JMSDF,we go perish together.
I mean the whole.world ,including india.

 

[VALKRYIE]

Anger in China over Russian sale of Klub missiles to Vietnam

Staff Reporter 2015-06-03 17:22 (GMT+8)

An image of what is believed to be the 3M-54 Klub missile being transported in Vietnam, taken from the Vietnamese-language military affairs Facebook Page Master Commander. (Internet photo)

US-based military news site Strategy Page published an article on May 31 entitled "Submarines: China Objects To Getting Klubbed," stating that China has lodged complaints with Russia, Vietnam and the US after Moscow agreed to sell 50 submarine launched 3M54 Klub missiles to Hanoi, according to the website of China's Global Times.

The Strategy Page report stated that although Russia and Vietnam have been trying to keep the deal on the down low, 28 of the Klub missiles have already been delivered to Vietnam. China is particularly concerned because the Klub missile can also be used to strike ground targets. The article stated that the submarines of India, Algeria and Vietnam are currently using the missiles and they are said to be highly effective, despite previous problems with the missile encountered on failed Indian test fires in 2007.

The Klub missile weighs 2 tonnes, with a warhead of 200 kilograms, and is fired from a 533 mm torpedo tube on submarines, according to the report. The anti-ship version of the missile has a range of 300 km and can reach a speed of up to 3000 km per hour in the final minute of its trajectory, the report said. With a 400 kg warhead, the land attack version of the missile does not have a high terminal stage speed, the report said.

The missile speeds up in the last 15 minutes of its approach, which it covers in just 20 seconds, before which it travels at an altitude of 30 m, making it difficult to detect and to counter, the report said.

The Klub resembles the 3M80 and P700 missiles which were commissioned at the end of the Cold War, the report said. However, Russian missiles have little experience in combat and are unreliable, according to the report, although this has improved with civilian contractors in recent years.

China currently has no effective defense against the Klub missile, which is likely why they are making such an issue out of the deal, the report said.

Russia also agreed to sell six Kilo-class submarines to Vietnam in 2009, which provoked ire from Beijing as well, the report said.

Anger in China over Russian sale of Klub missiles to Vietnam｜WantChinaTimes.com

 

[Genesis]

Anger in China over Russian sale of Klub missiles to Vietnam｜WantChinaTimes.com

Scrapping the bottom of the barrel now are we. lol

Want China Times, a Taiwanese publication. Then, strategy page, this is their title for their site.

Military News Humor Photos - StrategyPage

Military news and humor photos.


There's some good stuff on epoch times you haven't used yet, and Gordon Chang is under utilized by you which is a huge disappointment.


We "sell" to middle east nations, and America is fine with it. We got the same strategy, you hurt us, we'll pay you back 100 fold. You got 28 or more Klubs, we got thousands of missiles that can target anywhere.

 

[William Hung]

An article from a Russian think tank:

Is there a role for Russia to play in the South China Sea?

Is there a role for Russia to play in the South China Sea? | Russia Direct

Moscow’s global ambitions will inevitably lead it to the South China Sea, but that could force Russia to choose between partners such as China and Vietnam.

It is now clear that China’s struggle to prevent the internationalization of the South China Sea dispute has been a complete and utter failure. Non-claimant states such as India and Japan, not to mention the U.S., all have their eyes on (and sometimes their hands in) the time bomb that this maritime region may prove to be.

In the meantime, Russia has once again proclaimed its own Asia-Pacific pivot as a way of compensating for the damage done to its relations with the West by the crisis in Ukraine. But why is there no Russian finger in the South China Sea pie?

One way or another,Moscow is unlikely to remain completely untouched by the territorial disputes over the Spratly and Paracel islands. After all, 2015 has seen an unprecedented surge in Russia’s relations with China. With many in the West attempting to present Russia as isolated, the Kremlin sees its ties with Beijing as a manifestation of quite the contrary. In a similar fashion, China may want Moscow to help change its image of a besieged fortress.

Russia’s possible involvement in the South China Sea dispute would have been a no-brainer if another vocal claimant - Vietnam - weren’t also the country’s closest partner in Southeast Asia. Vietnam is one of the largest buyers of Russian military equipment, hosts several large investment projects and is entering a free trade area with the Moscow-led Eurasian Economic Union.

As for this moment, Russia’s policy towards the territorial disputes could be described as non-existent.
...
The question, then, is: What are the boundaries for Russia’s policy in the South China Sea? How far can it go and where it should go?

It seems that for Russia, as for the U.S., the focus should not be on matters of sovereignty, but rather, on matters of conduct. A world order Moscow could benefit from is one where, if there is a dispute of any sorts, the first thing the parties involved should do is to stop whatever they are doing at a point when no shots are fired and abstain from any assertive action.

This is precisely what is wrong with Ukraine and precisely what is wrong with the South China Sea. None of the parties is completely satisfied with the status quo and are continuously trying to change it, which only makes things worse and less predictable.

Perhaps this is the route for Russia to follow. Similar to Washington, Moscow may become the advocate for peaceful conduct, maintaining the status quo and, yes, that means telling China off. But unlike the U.S., Russia is not seen as a threat in Beijing, thus its motives will not be perceived as ulterior. If China can be convinced that putting the reclamation project on pause and engaging in meaningful conversation is the way to go, Moscow may well be taken as a significant contributor to Southeast Asian stability.Now wouldn’t that be a pivot to remember?

Please click on the link to read the full version.

 

[TaiShang]

China Inks Silk Road Deals With Brazil, Russia and India
06/05/2015

Chinese construction companies are expected soon to begin surveys and feasibility studies on a 5,300-km-long trans-oceanic railway project that will connect Brazil with Peru. The move, which was made possible during recent meetings when Brazilian leaders visited Chinese Premier Li Keqiang in May, is the latest example of China's efforts to extend its Silk Road program to Latin America.

"We invite Chinese companies to participate in this great infrastructure project," Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff said in a statement.

Also in late May, China started building a pipeline to receive Russian gas. This follows the signing of a $400-billion gas deal last year to build the Power of Siberia pipeline. Russia will invest $55 billion for the Russian section, including bringing new gas fields on stream.

Russian energy giant Gazprom said the new effort marked "the start of the execution stage from preparation phase". The company said that its pipeline company had signed an agreement with China's CNPC's pipeline project team for constructing the Russia-China eastern gas pipeline starting from Heihe on the border and running to Changling in Jilin province.

In recent weeks, Chinese President Xi Jinping also has spent considerable time on the road visiting Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Russia and Belarus to take forward his Silk Road agenda. Leaders of these countries expressed enthusiasm for the program but no specific infrastructure project other than the Russian pipeline was finalized.

 

[Tresbon]

By Shankkar Aiyar Published: 07th June 2015


There is nothing official about it. Not yet.

On May 7, two days before the Victory Day Celebrations in Russia, two warships of the People’s Liberation Army Navy—Linyi and Weifang—crossed into the Black Sea via the Bosphorous triggering raised eyebrows.

On the face of it, the Jiangkai II class (054A) guided missile frigates were part of the Chinese contingent attending the celebrations. The two warships—berthed at Novorossiysk—were also scheduled to take part in the first Sino-Russian joint exercise in the Mediterranean. The coincidence of the showcasing of the frigates hasn’t escaped informed comment. If the buzz is to be believed, China wants to sell frigates to Russia—low cost options for Russia, to replace older vessels and continue with its defence programme.

It is early days for outcomes. This being Russia and China, opacity rules —there may or may not be any public confirmation. There is no disputing the audacity of the aspiration. There is no denying the rise of Made in China arms either. Earlier this year, China emerged as the third largest arms exporter of the world, dislodging Germany. Research by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute reveals that arms exports from China have shot up 143 per cent in five years.

Since 2010, China has exported arms to 35 countries, including Pakistan, Iran, Venezuela, Tanzania, Sudan, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Thailand and most recently a missile defence system to Turkey. The value of the deals isn’t very high, not yet. What is remarkable is the range of arms—air defence systems, drones, artillery, missiles and ships—that China exports.

There is a method in its market expansion. In South Asia—Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Myanmar—the idea is supremacy and containment of India. In Latin America, it is about expanding trade and bagging mega projects. In Africa, where it exports to 18 countries, it is about access—commodities, labour and markets.

Interestingly, China’s transition—the largest importer between 2005 and 2009 to the marquee of top exporters—is rather recent. Although indigenisation was always on the agenda —and Tiananmen and Taiwan Straits crises underlined the imperative—the real big push came in 2006 when the Communist Party of China decided to integrate civilian and military capabilities. The focus was to acquire—and the operative definition is access and acquire—technology to innovate. The aim was to bring down import costs, create scale and to raise resources through exports to fund research and defence spending.

Compare this with the Indian experience. India too had recognised the need to integrate civilian capabilities and the need to make in India as early as in 2003. The big elephant was the absent private sector. The thesis then was that private sector couldn’t be trusted although India was importing from private foreign companies. In 2004, the Vajpayee regime appointed a committee under Vijay Kelkar to draw a blueprint for renaissance.

The Kelkar Committee submitted its first report in April 2005 to the new UPA regime. Believe it or not, the report was never made public—even the Chairman of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence was denied access. The Kelkar Committee Report is yet a secret document!

The report—which drew out a new architecture for defence production —recommended a swathe of changes, including autonomy and corporatisation of Ordnance Factories, listing of defence PSUs to raise resources, opening up to private sector and creation of a partnership model with private companies.

The recommendations itself were parcelled into do, discuss, debate and committee zones. Typically convenient cherry-picking prevailed. Result: Ordnance Factories are yet a mess, acquisitions are tardy and the offsets regime is enveloped in a dense fog. Yes, FDI cap has been relaxed to 49 per cent but with caveats and issues of technology transfer persist. In 2015, India is the largest importer and ranked 22 among arms exporters.

The virtue of decision and action is best reflected in the spend-trend. SIPRI’s trend indicator value shows that China’s imports have been driven down significantly. Studies (courtesy Dr Sam Perlo-Freeman/SIPRI) show that between 2010 and 2014, the total volume of China’s imports was 42 per cent lower than in 2005-2009. The savings were deployed on domestic arms procurement and R&D.

In India, in stark contrast, between 2005 and 2015, allocations under the capital account in defence budget have risen from Rs 34,375 crore to Rs 94,588 crore. Between 2005 and 2014, the country imported armoured vehicles, engines, sensors, naval weapons, missiles and air defence systems besides aircraft and ships. Many of these items India can and should be making at home—creating jobs and propelling growth.

India lost a decade. The difference is really in the evolution of strategic thinking—in China and in India. China aligned national security and economic growth. India must do so too!

Make In China: Now, Warships for Russia? -The New Indian Express

 

[IsaacNewton]

Good call by Russia, 054a is a mighty fine warship.
-Cheap, 250-300m to produce.
-Deadly firepower with 32 VLS.
-Versatile, capable of anti surface, anti air, and anti submarine warfare.
-Capable of blue water operation, as proven by its numerous port calls, Gulf of Aden operations, ect.
-No glaring weakness when compared with a western warship of same weight. Sensors, electronics, engine, speed, ect all seem to at least meet modern standard.

In fact, I think PLAN should buy more of these warship (currently at 24?) rather than wasting money on a type 054b.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Type 054A is a decent frigate with good punch

 

[cirr]

Good call by Russia, 054a is a mighty fine warship.
-Cheap, 250-300m to produce.
-Deadly firepower with 32 VLS.
-Versatile, capable of anti surface, anti air, and anti submarine warfare.
-Capable of blue water operation, as proven by its numerous port calls, Gulf of Aden operations, ect.
-No glaring weakness when compared with a western warship of same weight. Sensors, electronics, engine, speed, ect all seem to at least meet modern standard.

In fact, I think PLAN should buy more of these warship (currently at 24?) rather than wasting money on a type 054b.

Rumours have it that the PLAN like the 054A so much that it has placed an order for further 12 ships，thereby causing a delay to the introduction of Type 054B。

PLAN's motto：go for the most suitable but not necessarily the most advanced。

A thinking behind PLA's deeply-rooted pragmatism，a defining characteristic that is widely different from the disposition of a certain neighbour to the south。

 

[IsaacNewton]

Rumours have it that the PLAN like the 054A so much that it has placed an order for further 12 ships，thereby causing a delay to the introduction of Type 054B。

PLAN's motto：go for the most suitable but not necessarily the most advanced。

A thinking behind PLA's deeply-rooted pragmatism，a defining characteristic that is widely different from the disposition of a certain neighbour to the south。

I believe USN could learn from that. One littoral class warship cost 670m! That is more expensive than 2 054a, and I don't even believe it is a better ship.

I like the simple, cheap, yet efficient and practical type of thinking. Afterall, quantity has a quality of its own.

I believe China was able to sustained many years of high economic growth because of this philosophy. Afterall, as Deng Xiaoping kind of said, it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, what matters is it catches mice. In this case, it doesn't matter if the ship is the most advanced or not, what matters is it meet its function.

 

[DJ Crudept]

Rumours have it that the PLAN like the 054A so much that it has placed an order for further 12 ships，thereby causing a delay to the introduction of Type 054B。

PLAN's motto：go for the most suitable but not necessarily the most advanced。

A thinking behind PLA's deeply-rooted pragmatism，a defining characteristic that is widely different from the disposition of a certain neighbour to the south。

hi,

Can Type 54A beat Talwar Class Frigates ?

 

[hans]

It is because different demands of different navy...
USN is the most powerful navy in this planet, no navy can challenge it in open ocean
thus it may need something to bully small countries at their coast, like LCS.
And PLAN is struggling with very high anti-air pressure.
When PLAN finally gain this capability with 052C/D, 055 class, it turns to next week point of anti-submarine..
054B is said to be electrical propulsion, very suitable for anti-submarine..

I believe USN could learn from that. One littoral class warship cost 670m! That is more expensive than 2 054a, and I don't even believe it is a better ship.

I like the simple, cheap, yet efficient and practical type of thinking. Afterall, quantity has a quality of its own.

I believe China was able to sustained many years of high economic growth because of this philosophy. Afterall, as Deng Xiaoping kind of said, it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, what matters is it catches mice. In this case, it doesn't matter if the ship is the most advanced or not, what matters is it meet its function.

Answer will be majority yes.
054A is a balanced multi-function warship with advantage in anti-air, anti-ship, etc..
Talwar Class will be better in power/speed.
Though Talwar Class has more weapons on it, unbalance design limit its power.

hi,

Can Type 54A beat Talwar Class Frigates ?

 

[DJ Crudept]

It is because different demands of different navy...
USN is the most powerful navy in this planet, no navy can challenge it in open ocean
thus it may need something to bully small countries at their coast, like LCS.
And PLAN is struggling with very high anti-air pressure.
When PLAN finally gain this capability with 052C/D, 055 class, it turns to next week point of anti-submarine..
054B is said to be electrical propulsion, very suitable for anti-submarine..




Answer will be majority yes.
054A is a balanced multi-function warship with advantage in anti-air, anti-ship, etc..
Talwar Class will be better in power/speed.
Though Talwar Class has more weapons on it, unbalance design limit its power.

I think you r right I think IN needs to Upgrade talwar class ships with VLS on board

 

[hans]

And also radar and commanding system..
yet it may cost less to build new ships than upgrade old ships
too much limitation on existing old ships..

I think you r right I think IN needs to Upgrade talwar class ships with VLS on board