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The French Navy Stands Up to China

Sure, if you have better technology or strategy, you could win in spite of enemy's more ship numbers. However I dont see why France would have better strategy in sea warfare, while at least on the paper, chinese currently have some weapons with better technology than that of France.

Nonsense, number not a consideration during WW2 when Japan and US are peer enemies, unless you claim Chinese technology is miles ahead of France, what you said does not make sense.



Why India would involve in this hypotetical war? This is war between France and China right?

Besides, China ships could pass indian ocean which is international sea, then through read sea and egypt.

You do know what does it mean by "NEUTRAL" right? India is brought up because it will be neutral to a hypothetic war between China and France, and being Neutral, they won't allow China to resupply in their port. In case of international law, if China try to resupply in India. Indian government have to intern the Chinese ship. Now, tell me a way China can go around Indian Ocean without resupply in India?


From Chinese military base in Djibouti; Daniel808 has mentioned it above.

What's a naval base in Gulf of Eden have to do with fighting a war off France coast, which is in the Atlantics.

You may as well use Pakistan to resupply if you put your LOG STAT all the way back to Djibouti

By the way, Chinese base in Djibouti is not Chinese, they are a good will base from Djibouti government, French also have a base in Djibouti. In case of a war between France and China, both base will be closed by Djibouti Government as per neutrality agreement. Unless Djibouti government officially align with either French or China.



For skirmish sea warfare, chinese ship will have enough ammunition and missiles to sink French navy in mediteranian sea. Of course if you want to talk about land attack and occupation china will need much more amunition support from her supporting military base in Djibouti, I know china might not be ready for that scenario, however france is much less capable in attacking and occupying chinese land.

Dude, you are dreaming. First of all, fighting a war outside French coast you do not just need to deal with French Navy, it will be a combine effort of French Air/Land force with the Navy. Which mean sustainment, which mean repair, which mean resupply.

Unless you claim China can annihilate French Navy (which have 1 carrier and 13 destroyer with 11 Frigate with assorted OPV in the opening minute, every minute China stay within French Navy AO is working against China.

Ad do you even know where Djibouti is? The only way you can move supply from Djibouti thru the med is thru Suez Canal. China is not that dumb to use it in time of war, it would be like the Battle of Atlantic fought in Panama Canal.

Djibouti is useless in case of a war in that side of the Pacific.

US 3rd fleet with 4 aircraft carriers & 2 LPD fleet + other coalition (Brits, German, France) military projection power will be more than enough to win war in Iraq & Afghanistan, but not with China.

You know how the combination of Chinese submarines + destroyers + fregats + regiments of H-6K + DF-21D + DF-26 in artificial islands is more than enough to destroy whole navy of the coalition in SCS

LOL dream on.

You cannot use missile against Aircraft carrier, Carrier can STAY OFF the range of the missile. And it's laughable when you said H-6K can sink Amreican fleet, by that logic, wouldn't the B-52H stationed in Guam alone can sink the whole Chinese Navy?

You do know anti-ship missile is not a concept developed from ground up from China right? The US developed similar ballistic antiship missile in the 70s, and guess why they are not further developed and in favour of subsonic cruise missile?

Just because China is making it does not make it wonder weapon. Weapon designer knows better than me and you.

You need to get your head check. By the way, you spell frigate wrong.


That is thanks to US military power. Europe alone may not be able to reach that success. And now we are talking about fighting in SCS where there are numerous submarines, destroyers, fregats, anti access weapons there.

Do you think if you go to war with France, US and North America will sit on their arse and laugh at the French?

Why you want to discount it? Do you think China wont use them when war happen with US? In fact this the thing that china rely on to counter US military threat.

If you think the chinese anti access missiles are not real threat, then why until now US military might has no gut to attack China and destroy the illegal artificial islands made by china in SCS? Isn't US a world police while China has violated UN' resolution?

Yeah yeah yeah, you are right, missile see all and hit all, happy?

They are called "MISS"ile for a reason.
 
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US 3rd fleet with 4 aircraft carriers & 2 LPD fleet + other coalition (Brits, German, France) military projection power will be more than enough to win war in Iraq & Afghanistan, but not with China.

You know how the combination of Chinese submarines + destroyers + fregats + regiments of H-6K + DF-21D + DF-26 in artificial islands is more than enough to destroy whole navy of the coalition in SCS

Tell me why, if you dont think so.
Easy there.

You don't know much about American military capability and its level of preparation in the Pacific. I shall enlighten you: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-w...rtificial-islands.561360/page-2#post-10533819

US is on another level in comparison to all.

Yes, I agree that France cannot handle China in the SCS on its own. France doesn't have adequate numbers and logistics network.
 
That's almost like common sense and everyone can easily see, except for those who lost their mind.
SCS is China's backyard! China can commit a huge force to its defense in short order.

French navy is good but it won't last long in the SCS.

@jhungary

Your experience and knowledge is duly noted but it would be silly to assume that Chinese troops and sailors do not know how to fight. They may lack in experience but they have good training, numbers and firepower. They can afford to loose assets and still have the capacity of overwhelm French fleet in SCS.

If you are considering entire NATO, then of-course, no country stands a chance.

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I recall a scene in a movie in which the DEVIL calls a Chinese general and threaten him with consequences unless he submit. Chinese general responds that even if you wipe out HALF of China, we are still STRONG. :lol:
 
SCS is China's backyard! China can commit a huge force to its defense in short order.

French navy is good but it won't last long in the SCS.

@jhungary

Your experience and knowledge is duly noted but it would be silly to assume that Chinese troops and sailors do not know how to fight. They may lack in experience but they have good training, numbers and firepower. They can afford to loose assets and still have the capacity of overwhelm French fleet in SCS.

If you are considering entire NATO, then of-course, no country stands a chance.

---

I recall a scene in a movie in which the DEVIL calls a Chinese general and threaten him with consequences unless he submit. Chinese general responds that even if you wipe out HALF of China, we are still STRONG. :lol:

I am not saying a French-China run around in the SCS is a sure thing for the French, in fact, the chance is not looking good for the French, depending on whether or not US or NATO et al involve. But the chance is slim, not undoable.

Problem with China is whether or not China can fight a war in a forward position and how they would use their ship. If the Chinese navy derived a strategy base on their Anti-ship missile, then French would have a chance, most of Europe are drilled on missile defence ever since cold war, the French would be ready for such a fight, and if Chinese uses their ship smartly and screen the French where they should, then China will win regardless on how many asset they devoted into the battle.

On the other hand, China would not stand a chance fighting this out in French Backyard. The chance of China winning is better on whether or not China win the next world cup.
 
I am not saying a French-China run around in the SCS is a sure thing for the French, in fact, the chance is not looking good for the French, depending on whether or not US or NATO et al involve. But the chance is slim, not undoable.

Problem with China is whether or not China can fight a war in a forward position and how they would use their ship. If the Chinese navy derived a strategy base on their Anti-ship missile, then French would have a chance, most of Europe are drilled on missile defence ever since cold war, the French would be ready for such a fight, and if Chinese uses their ship smartly and screen the French where they should, then China will win regardless on how many asset they devoted into the battle.

On the other hand, China would not stand a chance fighting this out in French Backyard. The chance of China winning is better on whether or not China win the next world cup.
In global navy power rankings China ranks the 2 while France 6. If China can't stand a chance in French waters then the chance for France to win in SCS is a snowball's chance in hell. You seem to be the only person here having so much confidence for French navy. They are just a lapdog of US and does this gesture to please its master US, everyone can see that except you.

Military power of France and China
http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_France_vs_China



France is so farrrr.... behind in everything and you are talking about France winning a war at China's doorstep, you must be out fof your mind big time.
 
Nonsense, number not a consideration during WW2 when Japan and US are peer enemies, unless you claim Chinese technology is miles ahead of France, what you said does not make sense.


Quantity has quality all it's own. Haven't you heard about that?
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/795954-quantity-has-a-quality-all-its-own

So it is your own theory that number not a consideration which is nonsense here. You must have miss interpreted WW2 cases.

You do know what does it mean by "NEUTRAL" right? India is brought up because it will be neutral to a hypothetic war between China and France, and being Neutral, they won't allow China to resupply in their port. In case of international law, if China try to resupply in India. Indian government have to intern the Chinese ship. Now, tell me a way China can go around Indian Ocean without resupply in India?


Why should China use Indian ports?

I've told you: China's Navy have 18 Replenishment Ships in their Battle Fleet, including 2 Type 901 Fast Replenishment ships + Djibouti military base. That may not be enough for total warfare but would be enough for skirmish in mediterenian sea or north sea.

What's a naval base in Gulf of Eden have to do with fighting a war off France coast, which is in the Atlantics.

You may as well use Pakistan to resupply if you put your LOG STAT all the way back to Djibouti


You are hilarious :laugh:

Didn't you ask me : "a way China can go around Indian Ocean without resupply in India"?

Once i told you Djibouti military base, then you are asking what it has to do with the fighting in france coast? :lol:

By the way, Chinese base in Djibouti is not Chinese, they are a good will base from Djibouti government, French also have a base in Djibouti. In case of a war between France and China, both base will be closed by Djibouti Government as per neutrality agreement. Unless Djibouti government officially align with either French or China.


That is still fine.

As I told you, chinese navy ammunitions + 18 replenishment ships will be enough for skirmish warfare.

Dude, you are dreaming. First of all, fighting a war outside French coast you do not just need to deal with French Navy, it will be a combine effort of French Air/Land force with the Navy. Which mean sustainment, which mean repair, which mean resupply.

Unless you claim China can annihilate French Navy (which have 1 carrier and 13 destroyer with 11 Frigate with assorted OPV in the opening minute, every minute China stay within French Navy AO is working against China.

Ad do you even know where Djibouti is? The only way you can move supply from Djibouti thru the med is thru Suez Canal. China is not that dumb to use it in time of war, it would be like the Battle of Atlantic fought in Panama Canal.

Djibouti is useless in case of a war in that side of the Pacific.


Britt still could win the Malvinas war against Argentina, the war that was 15,000 km away from England.

Tell me why Britt could sustain her navy in the such a distant war while China wont?

LOL dream on.

You cannot use missile against Aircraft carrier, Carrier can STAY OFF the range of the missile. And it's laughable when you said H-6K can sink Amreican fleet, by that logic, wouldn't the B-52H stationed in Guam alone can sink the whole Chinese Navy?


With what the B-52H will destroy Chinese Navy?

Does US has equivalent to YJ-12, the supersonic anti ship cruise missile deployed already?

For short-range anti-ship attacks, the H-6K carries the potent YJ-12 supersonic anti-ship missile. “The YJ-12 poses a number of a number of security concerns for U.S. naval forces in the Pacific and is considered the ‘most dangerous anti-ship missile China has produced thus far,’” according the Missile Defense Advocacy group. “The danger posed by the YJ-12 comes from its range of 400 km, making it the longest-ranged ACBM ever engineered, and its ability to travel at high rates of speed (up to Mach 3). This makes it difficult for Aegis Combat Systems and SM-2 surface-to-air missiles that protect U.S. carrier strike groups to identify and engage the missile since it can be launched beyond their engagement ranges, which greatly reduces the U.S. Navy’s time to react.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-h-6k-the-old-bomber-could-sink-the-us-navy-25913
You do know anti-ship missile is not a concept developed from ground up from China right? The US developed similar ballistic antiship missile in the 70s, and guess why they are not further developed and in favour of subsonic cruise missile?


Because the technology was not mature yet at that time, hence US choosed subsonic path.

But now US is interested and have her own supersonic anti ship missile, which is SM-6
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-sink-battleships-us-navys-anti-ship-sm-6-missile-15436

However SM-6 is not deployed yet, and inferior to Chinese counterparts in some important feature.

The U.S. Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) ASCM variant, which may be deployed before 2020, has less range than its Chinese counterparts.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anders...-missile-failure-and-preemption/#544d5742638f

Just because China is making it does not make it wonder weapon. Weapon designer knows better than me and you.

You need to get your head check. By the way, you spell frigate wrong.


They are wonder because of their speed (supersonic or even hypersonic) and maneuverability. This is coming from the analysis of the military experts including from western analyst.

Your ignorance doesn't mean somebody else need to head check :lol:

What you need is just to educate your self:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-h-6k-the-old-bomber-could-sink-the-us-navy-25913
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anders...-missile-failure-and-preemption/#544d5742638f


Do you think if you go to war with France, US and North America will sit on their arse and laugh at the French?


If the war happen in SCS, the chance for US and her European alliance to win is not big, with reasons explained above: chinese numerous submarines + destroyers + frigates + regiments of H-6K + DF-21D & DF-26 + big carrier (artificial islands equipped with fighters, SAMs, and anti access weapons).

Yeah yeah yeah, you are right, missile see all and hit all, happy?

They are called "MISS"ile for a reason.


Denial is not smart argument. What you need to do is give plausible explanation supported by facts/data that those chinese anti access weapons are total failure.

There are enough evidence that YJ-12 is supersonic and hit target, and evidence accuracy and reliability of Chinese missile tech.
 
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Easy there.

You don't know much about American military capability and its level of preparation in the Pacific. I shall enlighten you: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-w...rtificial-islands.561360/page-2#post-10533819

US is on another level in comparison to all.

Yes, I agree that France cannot handle China in the SCS on its own. France doesn't have adequate numbers and logistics network.


America has military might, but China has the answer: "assymetric warfare strategy". US has numbers win in quantity, but china has numerous anti access weapons.

Tell me how US would handle chinese numerous anti access weapons effectively? Ranging from: DF-21D, DF-26, YJ-12, YJ-18, YJ-100 launched from regiments of H-6K or destroyers, and numerous submarines?

On the other hand, China would not stand a chance fighting this out in French Backyard. The chance of China winning is better on whether or not China win the next world cup.


The chance of China winning the sea warfare againts France in French backyard should not be less than the chance Britts winning warfare against Argentina during malvinas war, and you know Britts won that war!

Furthermore the gap between China vs France military power is bigger than the gap between Britts vs Argentina military power.
 
China fought US+16 allies+ US chemical weapons in Korean war.
They did and saved North Korea in the process, but other side of the story is that the US didn't plan for Chinese intervention in advance; Chinese intervention took them by surprise.

Much has changed today. US, alone, has bigger and more capable naval force than that of China, and it is also better prepared for high-intensity conventional warfare.

China will put up a fight, but I will stop at this.
 
They did and saved North Korea in the process, but other side of the story is that the US didn't plan for Chinese intervention in advance; Chinese intervention took them by surprise.

Much has changed today. US, alone, has bigger and more capable naval force than that of China, and it is also better prepared for high-intensity conventional warfare.

China will put up a fight, but I will stop at this.
That's a lie. China warned the US many times not to cross Yalu river but US thought China was bluffing. The western media would have one believe it was a surprise attack. Not sure how good a surprise attack iwoukd be with 300,000 troops at the border.
 
America has military might, but China has the answer: "assymetric warfare strategy". US has numbers win in quantity, but china has numerous anti access weapons.

Tell me how US would handle chinese numerous anti access weapons effectively? Ranging from: DF-21D, DF-26, YJ-12, YJ-18, YJ-100 launched from regiments of H-6K or destroyers, and numerous submarines
In order for those missiles to score hits in the oceanic environment, you need to get a firm lock on the US forces which won't be easy in view of US electronic countermeasures in the picture, moving targets, and a number of assets trying to take out your missile launchers in the process.

American surveillance apparatus is active 24/7, and they most likely have a good picture of Chinese defenses in the Pacific. Expect them to have devised a suitable engagement strategy accordingly.

US have positioned long-range (extremely powerful) radars in different locations across the Pacific and their space-based assets scan globally.

They also have SURTASS to scan entire Pacific and uncover locations of even quietest of diesel-powered submarines in the waters.

Many do not understand the significance of 'surveillance overmatch' in modern battles. They look at pure numbers and assume all good.

That's a lie. China warned the US many times not to cross Yalu river but US thought China was bluffing. The western media would have one believe it was a surprise attack. Not sure how good a surprise attack iwoukd be with 300,000 troops at the border.
Build-up on the border is expected in these kind of situations but to actually proceed to trade blows with American war-machine, is another level of political boldness altogether.
 
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@Reashot_Xigwin is getting body up hard. LOL.

This guy made alot of bias claim and act as if France fought a modern navy before. Claiming our missile is slow and less destructive because we are from the Soviet camp historically is humorous. In fact the only event closest to a modern naval war was the Falkland War in which France support and weapons got their butt whoop by the British. LoL

Fighting China is like fighting in a wolves dent. In modern naval warfare, it is about who detect wgo first. Given that we have hundred of satellites above the sky, thousand of fishing boats on the surface, and a shitload of underwater sub and robotic vessel to give location contact to the PLAN it wont take long before the limit number of Franch boat will sink and bury under the ocean. Lol Use your brain and make common sense and dont need genius to figure it out.
 
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