The fate of the PNS Ghazi

[TALWAR]

Well more kudos is deserved for the Indian media that convinces itself that everything it does is a huge success. And given a choice of believing Blain/Murad or you and your Indian forums I think I would believe the former. Sorry but your delusions are not gonna get much shrift here.

yeah the ships malfunction when they reach indian waters and soldiers get sick after crossing border...is this what you mean ?

 

[blain2]

yeah the ships malfunction when they reach indian waters and soldiers get sick after crossing border...is this what you mean ?

Well let me think back a bit...how about the Indian story making rounds where an Indian Mig-27 malfunctioned and went down inside Pakistan and then another Mig went to look for it and got shot down...using your logic/pun here, a Pakistani Navy vessel can never have a malfunction but its perfectly possible for an Indian aircraft to have this problem, huh?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I can understand your feelings. Well you guys have to find someing to convince yourself.

Read the article, its because of Intelligence information that we could get it.

to .
whats great about this forum is its glorious reputation of freedom of speech.
you indians can get away with such nonsense news.. i wont enjoy this privilege in pathetic sad lads barat-raksha typo forums suffering from superiority complex!

 

[Keysersoze]

Well let me think back a bit...how about the Indian story making rounds where an Indian Mig-27 malfunctioned and went down inside Pakistan and then another Mig went to look for it and got shot down...using your logic/pun here, a Pakistani Navy vessel can never have a malfunction but its perfectly possible for an Indian aircraft to have this problem, huh?

Don't be daft Blain it must have been VALOROUS ACTION BY INDIANS that sank the ship.......after all complex machines in wartime never fail!!!!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thread title changed to better reflect discussion.

 

[Keysersoze]

I wonder if the INS sank the Kursk too????

 

[blain2]

to .
whats great about this forum is its glorious reputation of freedom of speech.
you indians can get away with such nonsense news.. i wont enjoy this privilege in pathetic sad lads barat-raksha typo forums suffering from PTSD!

I do not think folks on such Indian forums are suffering from PTSD...you have to go through something (trauma typically) to suffer PTSD...I think over there the folks have some sort of a "Panic disorder" , the cause of which is their beloved Pakistan (or TSP and they very lovingly refer to it).
Panic disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TALWAR]

Well let me think back a bit...how about the Indian story making rounds where an Indian Mig-27 malfunctioned and went down inside Pakistan and then another Mig went to look for it and got shot down...using your logic/pun here, a Pakistani Navy vessel can never have a malfunction but its perfectly possible for an Indian aircraft to have this problem, huh?

Only 2 kills of over 2000 sorties is a good performance, that too with outdated mig-21.

But the PAF did'nt even dare to counter attack!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Only 2 kills of over 2000 sorties is a good performance, that too with outdated mig-21.

But the PAF did'nt even dare to counter attack!

There was a deliberate decision made to not involve the PAF in order to prevent an escalation of the conflict.

The "2000 sorties" did not do much good any way.

But back to the topic,

You still haven't posted any rebuttals to he arguments raised in the article posted.

If you continue this then I am going to assume then that you are merely trolling.

 

[blain2]

Only 2 kills of over 2000 sorties is a good performance, that too with outdated mig-21.

But the PAF did'nt even dare to counter attack!

PAF was never inducted in the theater.

2000 sorties on the Indian side of the IB. Of the less than 10 or 15 sorties on the Pakistan side, two resulted in aircraft (One Mig-27 and the other a Mig-21) going down. Not very good statistics.

 

[TexasJohn]

PAF was never inducted in the theater.

2000 sorties on the Indian side of the IB. Of the less than 10 or 15 sorties on the Pakistan side, two resulted in aircraft (One Mig-27 and the other a Mig-21) going down. Not very good statistics.

I think those were shot down by PA manpads and not the PAF....

 

[Imran Khan]

I think those were shot down by PA manpads and not the PAF....

you right they will be shot down by army air defence .before air force take action army air defence on LOC used stinger on indian baby.sqarden leader UJHA from 17 indian air force killed .flight lieutenant NACHI KETA [NO 1135]OF SAQWARDEN 9 was our guest for few days as POW.


Pakistan shoots down 2 Indian MiGs

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan shoots down two Indian MiGs
"One pilot killed, another taken into custody as PoW; third plane crashes due to technical fault; PAF carrying out combat air patrolling missions, says Maj Gen Anees Bajwa " Pakistan shot down two Indian MiGs -- MiG-21 and MiG-27 -- that intruded into Pakistan's air space along the Line of Control (LoC) on May 27, 1999. "We have shot down both the intruding Indian jets with ground fire and their wreckage is scattering over an area of 6 to 7 km inside Azad Jammu and Kashmir," announced Vice Chief of General Staff Major General Anees Bajwa.

The pilot of MiG-21, Squadron Leader Ujha of 17th Indian Air Force Squadron was killed, while that of MiG-27, Flight Lieutenant Nachi Keta (No 1135) of 9th Squadron, X-Srinagar, ejected and was taken into custody as Prisoner of War (PoW), he said. Maj Gen Bajwa, the first 2-star general from Pakistan Army who gave a special briefing to foreign and local journalists here at the PID Auditorium along with Information Minister Mushahid Hussain, Foreign Office spokesman Tariq Altaf and DG ISPR Brig Rashid Qureshi, announced that the air defence of Pakistan Army targeted the intruding Indian jets at 11:15 am and 11:35 am on the second day of escalated tension on the Line of Control.

He said unconfirmed reports say that another Indian jet had crashed in the Indian territory while returning to Srinagar, though this plane was not hit by a ground fire of Pakistan's air defence command. Without divulging details relating to the weapon used to shoot down the Russian-made Indian fighters flying at a low altitude, Bajwa said: "The Pakistan Armed Forces are fully ready to defend the territorial integrity of the motherland at any and every cost."

Speaking on behalf of the three forces and denying use of Pakistan Air Force combat aircraft to shoot down the Indian jets, Maj Gen Bajwa, deputy to the Chief of General Staff Lt Gen Muhammad Aziz, said: "The PAF Shaheens (F-16 Falcons) are ready at different air bases and are carrying out combat air patrolling (CAP) missions to defend its skies."

Elaborating the shooting down of Indian MiGs with the help of map showing the Line of Control and other areas, Maj Gen Bajwa said that the intruding jets were shot down on the River Indus in Kargil sector. He described Indian air campaign in Kargil as a 'new element' despite the fact that India had moved in additional five brigades and thousands of other troops drawn from different units to flush out the Kashmiri Mujahideen, struggling to win freedom from India. "According to Indian reports, around 100 to 250 Indian troops have been killed since May 6 when India escalated tension by trying to capture some Pakistani posts in Siachen area. There were three Shaheeds (martyrs) and one injured on the Pakistani side since early this month," said Bajwa.

He said it would be difficult to determine the Indian intentions of going for escalation and raise up the military ante, but there seemed five broad-based reasons for this escalation: Firstly, the political vacuum in India; secondly, electioneering season being used to raise the ante; thirdly, Indians' more sinister designs; fourthly, an attempt to violate the LoC; and lastly, since the Indian line of communication at Drass-Kargil sectors is vulnerable, she may have a desire to capture more land to improve the situation in her favour. He questioned the Indian move to bring in additional 15,000 troops and thousands of loose troops from different units to deal with a few hundred Mujahideen. "In fact, India started building up once it began to accuse Pakistan of capturing its area in September last year," he added.

He said so much so pictures are available that the body of an Indian trooper -- who was returned by Pakistan -- was given full honour who tried to capture Pakistani post in Shyaok sector. The LoC violations, he said, had started when India sent reconnaissance aircraft, which were not serious in its nature, but since May 6 India started building up and moved in a new element of air force at the LoC.

"Our problem is that we do not target civilians as on both sides there is Muslim population. But the Indians often target civilians and now they are using the Muslim population in occupied Kashmir as human shield and not allowing it to move to other areas," said Bajwa.

"Serious violation of Pakistan's air space took place on May 26 when Indian planes dropped bombs on our positions, and finally on May 27 their two jets were shot down by the air defence system of Pakistan Army," he said.

He narrated the track record of Indian violations across the LoC and said for the first time in 1972 when the LoC was established, India violated it, in 1984 the Indian Army walked into the vacant Siachen area, in 1988 it took some posts by violating the LoC, and in 1994 the Neelum Valley road was virtually closed till to date.

He said each time the Pakistan Army's Directors General Military Operations raised the question of violations with their Indian counterparts, no satisfactory answer was given. About the status of the captured Indian pilot, Bajwa said though both the countries had not declared war against each other, the pilot was taken into custody on account of act of war. "He will be a PoW and will be given treatment under regulations governing these matters," he added. Bajwa said the body of the other Indian pilot would be handed over to the Indian Army according to regulations governing such issues.(News).

 

[Imran Khan]

IAF chopper shot down by Pak infiltrators; 4 killed
28 May 1999 News Agencies

An estimated 300 to 400 intruders have so far been killed since the anti-infiltration operation started earlier this month, Brigadier J J Singh told reporters here.

Air Vice Marshal S K Malik said at a special briefing that the US-made ‘Stinger’ missile was shoulder-fired by infiltrators in Tololing area north of Drass around 1100 hours, about seven kilometres within the Indian territory.

An alliance of militants in Azad Kashmir (***) Muttahida Jihad Council claimed responsibility for shooting down the helicopter and later claimed in Muzaffarabad in *** that it had shot down two helicopters. But an IAF spokesman denied the report of shooting down of a second helicopter.

The MI-17 helicopter was flying at an altitude of 17,000 to 18,000 feet and the names of the four killed including two pilots would be made known only after their families had been informed of the tragedy, Defence Ministry sources said.

Malik said though the Indian Armed Forces would continue to exercise restraint, it might "review some of its options" in evicting the infiltrators in the wake of downing of the aircraft.

Specifically asked what he meant by reviewing options, he said the armed forces would use different kinds of weapons in their arsenal.

"All those options while operating within the Indian territory will be exercised," he said.

Major General J J Singh said there have been Pakistani troop movement across the border particularly along Jammu and Kashmir.

"Keeping this in view, suitable precautionary measures have been taken and appropriate state of alert declared," he said.

Meanwhile, India asked Pakistan to immediately return Flight Lieutenant K Nachiketa whom Islamabad claimed to have captured after his MiG-27 jet crashed as also the body of Squadron Leader Ajay Ahuja who was killed when his MiG-21 warplane was hit by a Pakistani surface-to-air missile.

Pakistan’s Deputy High Commissioner Akbar Zeb was summoned to the foreign office here and asked to confirm the veracity of reports about Nachiketa and Ahuja, an External Affairs Ministry spokesman said.

If correct, Pakistan envoy was told to ensure dignified treatment to Nachiketa and his return without loss of time as also handing over of the body of Ahuja.

India accused Pakistan of being habitual offender of the Simla agreement.

As to Islamabad’s claim that the wreckage of the aircraft was found within Pakistani territory, Malik said it was quite possible that a fighter plane operating at a speed of 1,000 km per hour could have crashed in the Pakistan-occupied area after the pilot had baled out.

They have no business to keep any one captured or body of dead pilot. This is not a war. We are operating within our territory, the Air Vice Marshal said.

Meanwhile, Brigadier Singh said Indian troops repulsed an attempt by Pakistan-backed militants to infiltrate into Rajouri sector of J and K.

Stating that there were troop movements by Pakistan, Singh said Indian forces were maintaining an appropriate state of alert and suitable precautionary measures had been instituted.

Even as Indian troops pushed back intruders from Drass, Tololing, Kaksar and Batalik areas in Kargil, Malik said Indian armed forces would continue to exercise restraint but would use different kinds of weapons in their arsenal to evict the infiltrators in the wake of the downing of the aircraft.

The report about shooting of the IAF helicopter today came while Pakistani army in Islamabad said this morning that Indian fighter aircraft had not so far violated the Line of Control nor attacked any Pakistani post.

Asked if India was considering any retaliatory measures following shooting down of its warplane, Malik categorically said we have no intention of crossing the Line of Control (LoC). We will employ tactics to save our planes. At the same time, the Pakistani action is hostile and provocative.

The Cabinet committee on security met here today to review the situation. The hour-long meeting chaired by Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee was attended among others by Defence Minister George Fernandes and Home Minister L K Advani

Fernandes told newspersons that the present movement of infiltrators had been instigated by the Pakistani army and the Nawaz Sharif Government did not have a major role in it.

The Defence Minister said anti-infiltration operations were being carried out with precision but it was not possible to indicate a time-frame for flushing out the intruders.

Singh said the shooting down of the helicopter by a Stinger missile made it clear that Pakistani army regulars were fully behind the infiltrators. The world needs no further proof of the grand design and preparations of the Pakistani army in encroaching our territory, he said adding the Pakistanis are provoking us to escalate the conflict.

Relentless joint operations to dislodge and evict the intruders in Kargil sector had resulted in substantive gains by the Indian armed forces in the last 24 hours, he said.

The area occupied by the armed foreign mercenaries was rapidly shrinking and Indian troops now held most of the ridge lines and were concurrently launching eviction operations, Singh said adding intelligence reports spoke of Pakistani army finding it extremely difficult to provide the intruders with medical aid, food, ammunition and other war-like stores.

Meanwhile, Pakistani army continued heavy shelling in Mushkoh valley and Drass sector causing damage to civilian property.

Maj Gen J J Singh told a special briefing that any Indian airman or any of the 12 Army personnel missing so far should be treated under the Geneva convention if they were in Pakistani custody.

A MiG-21 warplane flown by Ahuja was shot at by a Pakistani missile when he was trying to locate Nachiketa who had ejected from his MiG-27 fighter after it developed engine trouble.

He said efforts would be made to identify the position from where the Pakistani missile came and take necessary measures.

The Army moved in to capture a fourth key position in the Drass sector from the infiltrators including Pakistani Army regulars and completely dislodged them from the ridge. Three major positions were captured yesterday.

Maintaining that more than 200 mercenaries had been killed and a large number of infiltrators injured, Singh said the Indian casualty had risen to 24. The number of injured was 131 including about 25 seriously. 12 armymen were still missing, bringing down the number of missing personnel from 14 as two more bodies of men from Eight Sikh had been found.

Stating that a mountainous top at Tololing in Drass sub-sector had been cleared last evening, Singh said the aim of the infiltrators was mainly to capture the Srinagar-Leh highway passing through Drass and Kargil. Their designs have been defeated and they have been pushed back.

An External Affairs Ministry spokesman said Pakistan should ensure that during their custody, the IAF officer should be treated with dignity and well established norms should be adhered to.

He also denied Pakistani reports that there was sharp division in various quarters in India over the aerial strikes. "there is national consensus... Nation is one in its resolve to push out the intruders".

Asked whether the recent developments would hamper the process of Indo-Pak dialogue, he said "on our part, the door to dialogue will never be closed. We stand by all the agreements including the Lahore Declaration".

New Delhi, he said, desired good relations with Pakistan but it must realise that there cannot be stable relations in the face of such provocations.

During bilateral parleys, India had clearly told Islamabad that the Simla Agreement has to be the cornerstone of bilateral ties. "We have scrupulously adhered to all provisions of that accord. Pakistan, on the other hand, has violated this agreement in the past ten years by sponsoring terrorism in J and K. Today we have witnessed a new chapter in the violation of the Simla Agreement."

He said "all confidence building measures which are in place as far as we are concerned remain in place".

Making it clear that the armed intrusion was totally contrary to the path of peace, he said Government had repeatedly asserted that the constitutional status of Jammu and Kashmir could never be in doubt and there could be no compromise on the country’s territorial integrity. (Agencies)



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This Archives is Maintained by Md. Sadiq, 1998

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan claims to shoot down unmanned Indian aircraft
Pakistan on Saturday claimed that its air force jets shot down an unmanned Indian spy plane close to the border.

In a statement, the Pakistan Air Force said the unmanned aerial vehicle was brought down at 11 pm (PST) on Friday, and its wreckage fell close to the town of Raja Jang, south of Lahore, capital of Punjab province.

"The Indian aerial vehicle was on a reconnaissance and spying mission when it violated the Pakistan airspace close to Lahore," the statement said.

"The violation was monitored and the fighter aircraft of the PAF were immediately scrambled," it said.

"The PAF fighter jets intercepted the unmanned aircraft inside Pakistan's territory and shot it down," it added.

No comment was immediately available from the Indian armed forces.

The incident came as US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage was in the region to try to defuse a military standoff between the two countries.


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