The Concept of Pakistan in the Vedas

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

There are exceptions ofcourse, but what I mean to say here is that populations of Afghanistan, for example, share more closer racial and cultural similarities with Pakistan than do Indians.

However, no doubt there are some racial similarities with East Punjab, Rajastan, and Western Gujurat.

Yet I still posit that Afghan Pukhtoons are closer to the general Pakistani population than any of those Indian groups, for example.

Also, there are more Pukhtoons in Pakistan then there are in Afghanistan.

 

[Chhatrapati]

The theory that Aryans are the horse riding white Central Asians is mixing modern-day skin color based (race) identity to something that never really existed 5000 years ago. During those days Aryans simply means one who follows the ritualistic form of today's Hinduism or say Vedic societies. Which basically makes anyone who assimilated to the ritualistic tradition an Aryan irrespective of his/her supposed origin.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Also, there are more Pukhtoons in Pakistan then there are in Afghanistan.

That is why Pakistan and Afghanistan are historically and racially linked. But that is not the only reason. The culture of Punjab, Kashmir, Balochistan, Sindh also mirrors Pukhtoon culture. We had our own ethnics similar to Pukhtoonwali and qazi/jirga system is not foreign to our societies. It is only that Pukhtoons have maintained their culture better in light of Farangi (Colonial) onslaught.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

That is why Pakistan and Afghanistan are historically and racially linked. But that is not the only reason. The culture of Punjab, Kashmir, Balochistan, Sindh also mirrors Pukhtoon culture. We had our own ethnics similar to Pukhtoonwali and qazi/jirga system is not foreign to our societies. It is only that Pukhtoons have maintained their culture better in light of Farangi (Colonial) onslaught.

Also for some reason, they haven't been as affected as other Pakistani groups with over 70 years of severe anti-Pakistani propaganda and disinformation.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Also Aryan means "nobleman" and it comes from a racial and hierarchical origin from Iranic tribes which migrated and populated Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. @Desert Fox

For example modern Iran (Ay Ran) refers to the Iranic tribes which came to the region, they originated in the Altai mountains @masterchief_mirza and are from Noah's son Yafet/Japhet (along with Huns, Mongols, Turks, etc.)

 

[21st Century Vampire]

So he upvoted two posts with no historical evidence and made a counter point that the article has no historical basis, i guess that's some form of Reductio ad absurdum

2 quick additional points before going back to my college assignment, to respond to all (relevant) points including historical basis (in case he included the anti sudas coalition in his claim), all we have to do is study the locations of one or two tribes of the coalition mentioned in the article to get an idea of where most of the others come from...the pakhta tribe (Nothern Pakistan & Aghanistan) is corroborated by Herodotus, The Pani(Afghanistan) is corroborated by another greek source, Strabo plus the Afghan tribe maintained the exact same name as in the Rig

Other points, unimportant topics plus mere poisoning the well fallacy, nothing worth responding to plus the vedas are pretty clear (through descriptions) about the tribal characteristics of those people (no interpretational debate here) all we have to do is study the locations

 

[Joe Shearer]

To be continued tomorrow.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Also for some reason, they haven't been as affected as other Pakistani groups with over 70 years of severe anti-Pakistani propaganda and disinformation.

Among Pakistanis, Punjabis of Central Punjab were most affected by the social engineering campaign of the British, while Pukhtoons and Baloch, who resisted heavily and could not be completely subdued, resisted the longest.

By the time partition happened, our ancestors of Punjab had been forced into destitute poverty for resisting British again and again. This is why you see that during population shifts, they had withered to bones.

Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, RA, used to go and collect small amounts of atta (flour) from Muslim sisters to fund his modernization efforts of the Muslims. That is how poor we had become due to British (and Hindu) enforced starvation and ostracization of our ancestors from civil jobs, education, and military service.

No surprise that this is the exact situation that Indian Muslims find themselves in today. @xeuss

 

[masterchief_mirza]

There are exceptions ofcourse, but what I mean to say here is that populations of Afghanistan, for example, share more closer racial and cultural similarities with Pakistan than do Indians.

However, no doubt there are some racial similarities with East Punjab, Rajastan, and Western Gujurat.

Yet I still posit that Afghan Pukhtoons are closer to the general Pakistani population than any of those Indian groups, for example.

Your generalisation is reasonable here. I am still signposting though the inherent dangers of dismissing in absolutist fashion the substantial likelihood that mixing occurred in both directions in later eras. Yes - generally speaking there will be some preservation of genetic racial differences between Pakistan based and India based populations because our contributory progenitors were different, however, more recent millennia brought forth a recombination of genomes as was inevitable. I don't think this diminishes the concept of "Pakistan-ness" in any way because that description depends on multiple factors, of which genetics is simply one element. As I said, we are broadly in agreement here - we just seem to be highlighting different chronological points in the anthropological "evolution" of the Pakistani people.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Your generalisation is reasonable here. I am still signposting though the inherent dangers of dismissing in absolutist fashion the substantial likelihood that mixing occurred in both directions in later eras. Yes - generally speaking there will be some preservation of genetic racial differences between Pakistan based and India based populations because our contributory progenitors were different, however, more recent millennia brought forth a recombination of genomes as was inevitable. I don't think this diminishes the concept of "Pakistan-ness" in any way because that description depends on multiple factors, of which genetics is simply one element. As I said, we are broadly in agreement here - we just seem to be highlighting different chronological points in the anthropological "evolution" of the Pakistani people.

Ofcourse brother, all civilizations had some degree of mixing from outside.

To give you an example, one of my cousins had a DNA test done. According to it, we have 6% Swedish DNA. I find this quite interesting.

Since our Indian neighbors do not understand points except when put in blunt and absolutist terms, therefore to clear the air, I find this the best approach.

Pakistan and India are separate geo-historical and racial constructs, which have had completely different forces acted upon them.

Among all nations, Pakistan and Afghanistan have the highest degree of racial and cultural similarities.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Your generalisation is reasonable here. I am still signposting though the inherent dangers of dismissing in absolutist fashion the substantial likelihood that mixing occurred in both directions in later eras. Yes - generally speaking there will be some preservation of genetic racial differences between Pakistan based and India based populations because our contributory progenitors were different, however, more recent millennia brought forth a recombination of genomes as was inevitable. I don't think this diminishes the concept of "Pakistan-ness" in any way because that description depends on multiple factors, of which genetics is simply one element. As I said, we are broadly in agreement here - we just seem to be highlighting different chronological points in the anthropological "evolution" of the Pakistani people.

By the same token, Pakistanis and the ancestors of Pakistani people have also been intermarrying and intermixing with Iranians and Afghans to this day. Even more so than with anyone else, yet that doesn't make all three the same race.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Here is the overall genetic map of the people of Pakistan. The difference with the genetic heritage of indians is quite stark:

Google Image Result for https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/lookaside/crawler/media/?media_id=1853395461387096

 

[Musings]

Ofcourse only Indians are able to discuss Pakistani origins, that topic is off topic for Pakistanis, even on PDF.

We already know this egotistical, self-aggrandizing mindset of the secular Indians.

Look also at the intellectual dishonesty at display here, comparing racism and religious hate of present India, on full display in the form of Hindu extremist lynch mobs, to our acceptance of the different racial composition of Pakistan and India (which is fact that no one can deny.)

We never said here anyone is superior or inferior, merely that other civilizations should refrain from theft of our culture and heritage, which is the sole inheritance of the Pakistani nation and people.

This is why Pakistan was made, read below Ch. Rehmat Ali in his pamphlet from 1933 where he pushed for Pakistan.

"...we make bold to assert without the least fear of contradiction that we, Muslims of PAKSTAN, do possess a separate and distinct nationality from the rest of India, where the Hindu nation lives and has every right to live. We, therefore, deserve and must demand the recognition of a separate national status by the grant of a separate Federal Constitution from the rest of India...

...we propose that these Provinces should have a separate Federation of their own. There can be no peace and tranquility in the land if we, the Muslims, are duped into a Hindu-dominated Federation where we cannot be the masters of our own destiny and captains of our own souls."

Superb post. IVC belongs to the soil of Pakistan and Pakistan belongs to IVC. It baffles me to here that we apparently share this with any other. Look at the map - look at the heritage and thank Jinnah for separating us from them - il leave it their rather antagonising any little Indian guest getting heartburn

 

[Verve]

Pakistan's creation is the formalisation of the separation of the civilisations.

But the fascists and secular Indian Hindus just can't seem to digest these facts.

We are indeed racially different than the scum to the East. A few mixes here and there but that's it. Majority of Pakistanis have no links with Indians.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Nice to see they considered dehli punjab and rajistan as pakistan in vedic time

I'm not sure how you concluded either.