rubyjackass
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Please enlighten us on how friendship with India led to break-up of Soviet Union...
The Battle for Bajaur - PA seizes control
- Thread starter AgNoStiC MuSliM
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Vinod2070
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How exactly is that!
Many Pakistanis have been saying this for years and the companies are only going from strength to strength. Then they point to their own IT story as a major success when their whole IT industry is not even a small fraction of any of these companies!
All-Green
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Well lets not get into another comparison here!!!
The whole world is in recession
The thing to note is that Russia is now flexing its muscles on the global arena and opening new avenues from where to increase its influence on the world.
The Geo Strategic location of Pakistan means a friendship will benefit both countries.
Lets see if any leader worth his salt in Pakistan can capitalize on this window of opportunity.
Anyways lets please get back to the topic.
What is the latest information regarding the operation in Bajaur?
The whole world is in recession
The thing to note is that Russia is now flexing its muscles on the global arena and opening new avenues from where to increase its influence on the world.
The Geo Strategic location of Pakistan means a friendship will benefit both countries.
Lets see if any leader worth his salt in Pakistan can capitalize on this window of opportunity.
Anyways lets please get back to the topic.
What is the latest information regarding the operation in Bajaur?
fatman17
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Pakistan and U.S. Rebuild Strained Military Ties
By YOCHI J. DREAZEN
TORKHAM, Afghanistan -- U.S and Pakistani military cooperation has increased as the two nations push to eliminate militants destabilizing both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border, a marked change from last year's tense relationship.
Senior American military officers say the U.S. is allowing Pakistani officers to view video feeds from unmanned drones flying over Pakistan's ungoverned border regions. The U.S. is also granting access to American intercepts of militant cellular and satellite phone calls inside Pakistan.
The Pakistani military is using the U.S. intelligence to carry out strikes against extremists in its Federally Administered Tribal Areas, which are widely thought to harbor senior members of al Qaeda, the Taliban and other armed Islamist groups. U.S. officials believe Afghanistan is deteriorating because of insurgents based in these "safe havens."
The cooperation is a contrast from earlier last year when Islamabad, reacting to public anger over U.S. ground and air strikes inside the country, withheld military cooperation. The once-solid relationship between Washington and Islamabad deteriorated over the summer after an American missile killed 11 Pakistani soldiers.
Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Schloesser, the top U.S. commander in eastern Afghanistan, said the number of insurgents crossing into Afghanistan from Pakistan has begun to decrease, reducing a major cause of instability in Afghanistan. Gen. Schloesser said U.S. and Afghan forces, which were hit by up to 20 rockets a day over the summer, are now hit by two or three.
U.S. officials attributed the declines to American missile strikes on insurgent targets inside Pakistan and the coordinated military campaign known as Operation Lionheart, which involves U.S. moves against militants in the Kunar region of Afghanistan and a large Pakistani campaign in the extremist stronghold of Bajaur.
Pakistani forces display confiscated ammunition during a campaign against militants in Peshawar on Friday.
"The operations in Bajaur and the Predator strikes in Waziristan have caused a disruption across the border," Gen. Schloesser said. The general's comments mark one of the first times a senior U.S. official has publicly confirmed the use of U.S. missile strikes in Pakistan.
Pakistan's chief military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said Operation Lionheart had succeeded in pushing many militants out of Bajaur, which had long been the main extremist stronghold in northwestern Pakistan.
U.S. officials credit the turnaround in part to Gen. Ashfaq Kiyani, the head of Pakistan's armed forces, who has come to believe that militants pose an extreme threat. Gen. Kiyani replaced the head of the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence, which has long maintained covert ties to the Taliban and other armed groups, and has devoted significant military resources toward the fight in the border regions.
Pakistan's fragile civilian government has also taken a harder line toward the militants than many U.S. officials expected.
William Wood, the U.S. ambassador in Kabul, said in a recent interview that Pakistan was "unquestionably taking more effective action" against militants. "The only reason I wouldn't refer to it as a bright spot is that the problem is such a big one," he said.
The focal point of the U.S.-Pakistani military cooperation is the small base at Torkham, a strategically vital border town that abuts the Khyber Pass, the main supply route for Western forces in Afghanistan.
The American-built base here opened in the spring, and was meant to house military personnel from the U.S., Afghanistan and Pakistan. During a trip to Torkham over the summer, the barracks rooms set aside for the Pakistanis sat empty, with the mattresses still covered in plastic.
In late December, by contrast, U.S. troops sat in a large tactical operations room alongside Afghan personnel in dark-green fatigues and Pakistani soldiers in flowing tan uniforms. The video feed from an American drone was being projected onto a large pull-down screen at the front of the room.
The Pakistani personnel at Torkham have secure phone and data connections back to their country. A senior U.S. official said the Pakistanis receive access to American "signals intelligence," mainly intercepts of radio traffic, cellular and satellite phone calls.
Maj. Robert Brown, the top U.S. official at Torkham, said the base is meant to "knit together" the U.S., Afghanistan and Pakistan. "The point is to make sure everyone knows all the same information, and can act on it," he said in an interview.
—Zahid Hussain contributed to this article.
Write to Yochi J. Dreazen at yochi.dreazen@wsj.com
By YOCHI J. DREAZEN
TORKHAM, Afghanistan -- U.S and Pakistani military cooperation has increased as the two nations push to eliminate militants destabilizing both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border, a marked change from last year's tense relationship.
Senior American military officers say the U.S. is allowing Pakistani officers to view video feeds from unmanned drones flying over Pakistan's ungoverned border regions. The U.S. is also granting access to American intercepts of militant cellular and satellite phone calls inside Pakistan.
The Pakistani military is using the U.S. intelligence to carry out strikes against extremists in its Federally Administered Tribal Areas, which are widely thought to harbor senior members of al Qaeda, the Taliban and other armed Islamist groups. U.S. officials believe Afghanistan is deteriorating because of insurgents based in these "safe havens."
The cooperation is a contrast from earlier last year when Islamabad, reacting to public anger over U.S. ground and air strikes inside the country, withheld military cooperation. The once-solid relationship between Washington and Islamabad deteriorated over the summer after an American missile killed 11 Pakistani soldiers.
Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Schloesser, the top U.S. commander in eastern Afghanistan, said the number of insurgents crossing into Afghanistan from Pakistan has begun to decrease, reducing a major cause of instability in Afghanistan. Gen. Schloesser said U.S. and Afghan forces, which were hit by up to 20 rockets a day over the summer, are now hit by two or three.
U.S. officials attributed the declines to American missile strikes on insurgent targets inside Pakistan and the coordinated military campaign known as Operation Lionheart, which involves U.S. moves against militants in the Kunar region of Afghanistan and a large Pakistani campaign in the extremist stronghold of Bajaur.
Pakistani forces display confiscated ammunition during a campaign against militants in Peshawar on Friday.
"The operations in Bajaur and the Predator strikes in Waziristan have caused a disruption across the border," Gen. Schloesser said. The general's comments mark one of the first times a senior U.S. official has publicly confirmed the use of U.S. missile strikes in Pakistan.
Pakistan's chief military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said Operation Lionheart had succeeded in pushing many militants out of Bajaur, which had long been the main extremist stronghold in northwestern Pakistan.
U.S. officials credit the turnaround in part to Gen. Ashfaq Kiyani, the head of Pakistan's armed forces, who has come to believe that militants pose an extreme threat. Gen. Kiyani replaced the head of the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence, which has long maintained covert ties to the Taliban and other armed groups, and has devoted significant military resources toward the fight in the border regions.
Pakistan's fragile civilian government has also taken a harder line toward the militants than many U.S. officials expected.
William Wood, the U.S. ambassador in Kabul, said in a recent interview that Pakistan was "unquestionably taking more effective action" against militants. "The only reason I wouldn't refer to it as a bright spot is that the problem is such a big one," he said.
The focal point of the U.S.-Pakistani military cooperation is the small base at Torkham, a strategically vital border town that abuts the Khyber Pass, the main supply route for Western forces in Afghanistan.
The American-built base here opened in the spring, and was meant to house military personnel from the U.S., Afghanistan and Pakistan. During a trip to Torkham over the summer, the barracks rooms set aside for the Pakistanis sat empty, with the mattresses still covered in plastic.
In late December, by contrast, U.S. troops sat in a large tactical operations room alongside Afghan personnel in dark-green fatigues and Pakistani soldiers in flowing tan uniforms. The video feed from an American drone was being projected onto a large pull-down screen at the front of the room.
The Pakistani personnel at Torkham have secure phone and data connections back to their country. A senior U.S. official said the Pakistanis receive access to American "signals intelligence," mainly intercepts of radio traffic, cellular and satellite phone calls.
Maj. Robert Brown, the top U.S. official at Torkham, said the base is meant to "knit together" the U.S., Afghanistan and Pakistan. "The point is to make sure everyone knows all the same information, and can act on it," he said in an interview.
—Zahid Hussain contributed to this article.
Write to Yochi J. Dreazen at yochi.dreazen@wsj.com
fatman17
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2 key al-qeada bandits killed in the latest drone strike. both were african-arabs. Anwar2 take note of the targeting!!!
fatman17
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ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2009
Jane's Defence Weekly
US strike kills Al-Qaeda leaders in Pakistan
Trefor Moss JDW Asia-Pacific Editor - London
Key Points
Two senior Al-Qaeda operatives have been killed in a US strike inside Pakistan's tribal areas
The elimination of such high-value targets will help the US to justify its controversial policy of conducting UAV strikes in Pakistan
The United States has killed Al-Qaeda's two most senior operatives in Pakistan in an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) strike in South Waziristan.
Usama al-Kini, Al-Qaeda's chief of operations in the country, and his lieutenant, Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan, were killed on 1 January by a Hellfire missile launched by a US Reaper or Predator UAV in a mission that has arguably vindicated the controversial US policy of striking targets inside Pakistani territory.
US officials do not comment on air strikes inside Pakistan that are attributed to US forces, as the US military has no official permission to conduct operations there. However, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed US military source on 9 January as confirming that the two men had been killed. Their deaths, he said, dealt "a debilitating blow" to Al-Qaeda in the region.
Al-Kini and Swedan, who were both Kenyan, were wanted in connection with the attack on the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad in September 2008 and the US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania 10 years earlier.
North and South Waziristan, which are both agencies in Pakistan's Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), are known to harbour large numbers of foreign militants, especially Arabs and Uzbeks, operating in Pakistan and across the border in Afghanistan.
The Pakistani military was unable to confirm or deny whether the strike had taken place, a spokesman said. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was also unable to comment.
The US' undeclared policy of hitting high-value Al-Qaeda and Taliban targets in Pakistan's tribal areas has been widely called into question and has sparked condemnation from the Pakistani government, which denies ever having given the US permission to launch attacks on its soil. The US is suspected of conducting about 25 UAV strikes inside Pakistan since August 2008.
However, Alex Neill, head of the Asia programme at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), told Jane's that the "lack of uproar" in the wake of the latest strike compared with Pakistan's reaction to previous attacks suggested that on this occasion there had been "operational co-ordination between the US and the Pakistani military".
He said that such co-operation would be a "positive sign" that US and Pakistani intelligence officers were sharing information and collaborating in their attempts to destroy the militants' command chain.
In November a Pakistani government official told Jane's that the US policy of UAV strikes "would not work" and would "have a negative impact" on Pakistan's efforts to combat militancy.
However, the elimination of al-Kini and Swedan is only likely to persuade the incoming administration of president-elect Barack Obama to persevere with the use of UAVs to extend the US' reach into the FATA.
News of the strike emerged as Joe Biden, the vice-president-elect, arrived in Islamabad on 9 January for discussions with Pakistani leaders on the future course of operations against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2009
Jane's Defence Weekly
US strike kills Al-Qaeda leaders in Pakistan
Trefor Moss JDW Asia-Pacific Editor - London
Key Points
Two senior Al-Qaeda operatives have been killed in a US strike inside Pakistan's tribal areas
The elimination of such high-value targets will help the US to justify its controversial policy of conducting UAV strikes in Pakistan
The United States has killed Al-Qaeda's two most senior operatives in Pakistan in an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) strike in South Waziristan.
Usama al-Kini, Al-Qaeda's chief of operations in the country, and his lieutenant, Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan, were killed on 1 January by a Hellfire missile launched by a US Reaper or Predator UAV in a mission that has arguably vindicated the controversial US policy of striking targets inside Pakistani territory.
US officials do not comment on air strikes inside Pakistan that are attributed to US forces, as the US military has no official permission to conduct operations there. However, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed US military source on 9 January as confirming that the two men had been killed. Their deaths, he said, dealt "a debilitating blow" to Al-Qaeda in the region.
Al-Kini and Swedan, who were both Kenyan, were wanted in connection with the attack on the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad in September 2008 and the US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania 10 years earlier.
North and South Waziristan, which are both agencies in Pakistan's Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), are known to harbour large numbers of foreign militants, especially Arabs and Uzbeks, operating in Pakistan and across the border in Afghanistan.
The Pakistani military was unable to confirm or deny whether the strike had taken place, a spokesman said. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was also unable to comment.
The US' undeclared policy of hitting high-value Al-Qaeda and Taliban targets in Pakistan's tribal areas has been widely called into question and has sparked condemnation from the Pakistani government, which denies ever having given the US permission to launch attacks on its soil. The US is suspected of conducting about 25 UAV strikes inside Pakistan since August 2008.
However, Alex Neill, head of the Asia programme at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), told Jane's that the "lack of uproar" in the wake of the latest strike compared with Pakistan's reaction to previous attacks suggested that on this occasion there had been "operational co-ordination between the US and the Pakistani military".
He said that such co-operation would be a "positive sign" that US and Pakistani intelligence officers were sharing information and collaborating in their attempts to destroy the militants' command chain.
In November a Pakistani government official told Jane's that the US policy of UAV strikes "would not work" and would "have a negative impact" on Pakistan's efforts to combat militancy.
However, the elimination of al-Kini and Swedan is only likely to persuade the incoming administration of president-elect Barack Obama to persevere with the use of UAVs to extend the US' reach into the FATA.
News of the strike emerged as Joe Biden, the vice-president-elect, arrived in Islamabad on 9 January for discussions with Pakistani leaders on the future course of operations against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
fatman17
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Date Posted: 09-Jan-2009
Jane's Defence Weekly
Pakistan targets Taliban in effort to protect NATO supply line
Trefor Moss JDW Asia-Pacific Editor - London
The Pakistani military has launched an anti-Taliban operation in the Khyber Agency of the country's Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) in a bid to safeguard the critical NATO supply line that runs through the Khyber Pass, linking Pakistan with Afghanistan.
The army launched Operation 'Daraghlam' in Khyber's Jamrud area on 30 December 2008 and within a week had arrested 200 suspected Taliban, according to Tariq Hayat Khan, the Khyber Agency's political agent, following strikes on Taliban bases. Soldiers also seized 1,200 kg of explosives and several suicide vests.
On 4 January 2009 the local government also issued an order telling all Afghans to leave the Khyber Agency within a week. Justifying the expulsion, Khan said that Afghans were responsible for 60 per cent of criminal activity within the agency, including attacks on NATO convoys.
The Afghans, who were instructed either to make their way to an official refugee camp or return to their own country, appealed to the government on 5 January to be allowed to stay. Local tribal chiefs were also meeting with Khan at the time of going to press in a bid to end the military operation.
The NATO supply line, which runs from Peshawar in northwest Pakistan through the Khyber Pass and on towards Kabul and carries 70 per cent of all supplies received by NATO forces in Afghanistan, has been seriously disrupted by Taliban activity in recent months. In early December a string of attacks on supply depots in Peshawar resulted in more than 250 vehicles being destroyed, while sustained violence along the Khyber route has forced the supply line to be shut repeatedly.
The launching of the Pakistani operation led to further disruption, with the army closing the supply route on 30 December. It was partially reopened on 1 January and fully reopened two days later, a NATO spokesperson confirmed to Jane's .
The spokesperson added that NATO forces had not been affected by the most recent closure because the Pakistani military had co-ordinated its operation with NATO commanders in Afghanistan, who prepared accordingly.
None of the Pakistani military spokesmen based in Peshawar were available in early January to confirm the status of the operation.
© 2009 Jane's Information Group
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2009
Jane's Defence Weekly
Pakistan targets Taliban in effort to protect NATO supply line
Trefor Moss JDW Asia-Pacific Editor - London
The Pakistani military has launched an anti-Taliban operation in the Khyber Agency of the country's Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) in a bid to safeguard the critical NATO supply line that runs through the Khyber Pass, linking Pakistan with Afghanistan.
The army launched Operation 'Daraghlam' in Khyber's Jamrud area on 30 December 2008 and within a week had arrested 200 suspected Taliban, according to Tariq Hayat Khan, the Khyber Agency's political agent, following strikes on Taliban bases. Soldiers also seized 1,200 kg of explosives and several suicide vests.
On 4 January 2009 the local government also issued an order telling all Afghans to leave the Khyber Agency within a week. Justifying the expulsion, Khan said that Afghans were responsible for 60 per cent of criminal activity within the agency, including attacks on NATO convoys.
The Afghans, who were instructed either to make their way to an official refugee camp or return to their own country, appealed to the government on 5 January to be allowed to stay. Local tribal chiefs were also meeting with Khan at the time of going to press in a bid to end the military operation.
The NATO supply line, which runs from Peshawar in northwest Pakistan through the Khyber Pass and on towards Kabul and carries 70 per cent of all supplies received by NATO forces in Afghanistan, has been seriously disrupted by Taliban activity in recent months. In early December a string of attacks on supply depots in Peshawar resulted in more than 250 vehicles being destroyed, while sustained violence along the Khyber route has forced the supply line to be shut repeatedly.
The launching of the Pakistani operation led to further disruption, with the army closing the supply route on 30 December. It was partially reopened on 1 January and fully reopened two days later, a NATO spokesperson confirmed to Jane's .
The spokesperson added that NATO forces had not been affected by the most recent closure because the Pakistani military had co-ordinated its operation with NATO commanders in Afghanistan, who prepared accordingly.
None of the Pakistani military spokesmen based in Peshawar were available in early January to confirm the status of the operation.
© 2009 Jane's Information Group
fatman17
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Pakistan: 6 troops, 40 militants killed in attack
The Associated Press
Published: January 11, 2009
PESHAWAR, Pakistan: At least 40 militants were killed and scores of others wounded as security forces repulsed an attack by about 600 fighters in northwestern Pakistan.
Six security forces were also killed and seven others wounded in the pre-dawn attack in Mohmand agency.
Insurgents attacked the Frontier Corps' Mohammad Ghat camp at about 2 a.m. Sunday with mortars and rockets, then opened small arms fire on a checkpoint near the camp, said a military official speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not permitted to comment to the media.
The attackers were eventually driven off but scattered skirmishes continued Sunday, he said.
The Mohmand agency lies along the volatile Afghan border and the military official said the bulk of the militants crossed over from Afghanistan and later joined up with Pakistani allies. He said at least 40 militants were killed in the fighting.
The lawless and remote mountain region is believed to be used by pro-Taliban militants as a launch pad for attacks into Afghanistan, and is difficult for reporters to access.
Pakistan has deployed tens of thousands of troops to police its tribal regions, but Western and Afghan officials say that has not deterred militants.
The Associated Press
Published: January 11, 2009
PESHAWAR, Pakistan: At least 40 militants were killed and scores of others wounded as security forces repulsed an attack by about 600 fighters in northwestern Pakistan.
Six security forces were also killed and seven others wounded in the pre-dawn attack in Mohmand agency.
Insurgents attacked the Frontier Corps' Mohammad Ghat camp at about 2 a.m. Sunday with mortars and rockets, then opened small arms fire on a checkpoint near the camp, said a military official speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not permitted to comment to the media.
The attackers were eventually driven off but scattered skirmishes continued Sunday, he said.
The Mohmand agency lies along the volatile Afghan border and the military official said the bulk of the militants crossed over from Afghanistan and later joined up with Pakistani allies. He said at least 40 militants were killed in the fighting.
The lawless and remote mountain region is believed to be used by pro-Taliban militants as a launch pad for attacks into Afghanistan, and is difficult for reporters to access.
Pakistan has deployed tens of thousands of troops to police its tribal regions, but Western and Afghan officials say that has not deterred militants.
All-Green
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Thanks for the updates, fatman17
Regarding the 2 Al-Qaeda Leaders
Any reason why our state machinery is not openly advertising the Al-Qaeda threat through mass media and making Pakistanis aware of the terrorist activities being carried out by them?
Making people aware of the threat is very important to ensure a complete isolation of Al-Qaeda since it is drawing sympathy from the anti US sentiments prevailing amongst the Muslims.
Since we have identified them as a certain threat against Pakistan and the Muslim world, shouldn't we ensure public awareness is increased to the extent that they realize the extent of damage caused by Al-Qaeda to Muslims instead of listening to conspiracy theories.
I always maintain that no matter what Osama's beef with his former handlers (USA) and the high handedness of USA against Muslims, what Osama is doing is absolutely against Islam and Muslims both so we should ensure that constant religious, political and military pressure is maintained on him.
Regarding the Mohammad Ghat camp attack
Did we use PAF to strafe these miscreants?
If not then do we lack the night fighting capability or was there any other reason which held us back?
Such a huge formation of the miscreants was a god given opportunity to deplete their ranks, i am wondering why we did not hammer them from the land and sky both instead of driving them back!
I still have not forgiven our high command for the few past instances where militants attacked in high numbers and even heavy artillery was not ordered to barrage their positions.
Any details on the political or military concerns/issues which held the PA and PAF back in this new attack?
Regarding the 2 Al-Qaeda Leaders
Any reason why our state machinery is not openly advertising the Al-Qaeda threat through mass media and making Pakistanis aware of the terrorist activities being carried out by them?
Making people aware of the threat is very important to ensure a complete isolation of Al-Qaeda since it is drawing sympathy from the anti US sentiments prevailing amongst the Muslims.
Since we have identified them as a certain threat against Pakistan and the Muslim world, shouldn't we ensure public awareness is increased to the extent that they realize the extent of damage caused by Al-Qaeda to Muslims instead of listening to conspiracy theories.
I always maintain that no matter what Osama's beef with his former handlers (USA) and the high handedness of USA against Muslims, what Osama is doing is absolutely against Islam and Muslims both so we should ensure that constant religious, political and military pressure is maintained on him.
Regarding the Mohammad Ghat camp attack
Did we use PAF to strafe these miscreants?
If not then do we lack the night fighting capability or was there any other reason which held us back?
Such a huge formation of the miscreants was a god given opportunity to deplete their ranks, i am wondering why we did not hammer them from the land and sky both instead of driving them back!
I still have not forgiven our high command for the few past instances where militants attacked in high numbers and even heavy artillery was not ordered to barrage their positions.
Any details on the political or military concerns/issues which held the PA and PAF back in this new attack?
S-2
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Despite this gross inaccuracy which you'd be extremely hard-pressed to prove-
"I always maintain that no matter what Osama's beef with his former handlers (USA)"
your comments are well-taken. I, too, had both thoughts.
"Making people aware of the threat is very important to ensure a complete isolation of Al-Qaeda..."
The narrative starts at the top in your nation and, if this is your objective, must include education against all extremist elements within Pakistan-not simply Al Qaeda. The threat is that pervasive and allows no room for waffling on the message. The message must be consistant and entail the threat to Pakistan's sovereignty from within. Finally, the messages must make clear that all Pakistan suffers when FATA suffers. Most of your citizens are beginning to vaguely understand this notion but it must be clear to your population that the government sees FATA and it's wefare/security as it's responsibility and is intent upon it's improvement.
"Such a huge formation of the miscreants was a god given opportunity to deplete their ranks, i am wondering why we did not hammer them from the land and sky both instead of driving them back!"
This is a good question to which I'd suggest you'll never know the answer unless somebody in the chain of command spills the beans. Posts shouldn't be established without mutual support. If they are, it has to possess internally all the means necessary to repel attackers for the immediate and near-term. It should also possess SOPs that include a reinforcement plan with identified troops, lift (ground or air), routes, LZs, and fire support where necessary (and all of it's necessary) for 24/7 support of the given facility.
I'd be curious if American forces were aware of the engagement. If so, what coordination measures were enacted with them? I don't blame us for the attack nor would I do so if we might have helped but procedures to do so are still lacking. I could see us air-lift forces in to block the border. I could also see our choppers shot down for lack of coordination...at night...in the midst of a raging battle...etc.
So it's not easy off-the-cuff and SOPs become tremendously valuable. Even then, attacks of this sort can be effective. I'd reference the attack on Turkish forces by the PKK last fall. Nearly thirty turkish troops dead on a facility long-established with procedures well-worked. New officers, though, from a newly-rotated unit were unaware of these procedures and threats and made their forces vulnerable through ignorance.
So too the attack on U.S. forces last summer. Here the base was poorly located to receive help if necessary. There simply wasn't room to reinforce without being directly exposed to enemy fire. It was ultimately up to the base and indirect fires to save itself.
Some thoughts...
"I always maintain that no matter what Osama's beef with his former handlers (USA)"
your comments are well-taken. I, too, had both thoughts.
"Making people aware of the threat is very important to ensure a complete isolation of Al-Qaeda..."
The narrative starts at the top in your nation and, if this is your objective, must include education against all extremist elements within Pakistan-not simply Al Qaeda. The threat is that pervasive and allows no room for waffling on the message. The message must be consistant and entail the threat to Pakistan's sovereignty from within. Finally, the messages must make clear that all Pakistan suffers when FATA suffers. Most of your citizens are beginning to vaguely understand this notion but it must be clear to your population that the government sees FATA and it's wefare/security as it's responsibility and is intent upon it's improvement.
"Such a huge formation of the miscreants was a god given opportunity to deplete their ranks, i am wondering why we did not hammer them from the land and sky both instead of driving them back!"
This is a good question to which I'd suggest you'll never know the answer unless somebody in the chain of command spills the beans. Posts shouldn't be established without mutual support. If they are, it has to possess internally all the means necessary to repel attackers for the immediate and near-term. It should also possess SOPs that include a reinforcement plan with identified troops, lift (ground or air), routes, LZs, and fire support where necessary (and all of it's necessary) for 24/7 support of the given facility.
I'd be curious if American forces were aware of the engagement. If so, what coordination measures were enacted with them? I don't blame us for the attack nor would I do so if we might have helped but procedures to do so are still lacking. I could see us air-lift forces in to block the border. I could also see our choppers shot down for lack of coordination...at night...in the midst of a raging battle...etc.
So it's not easy off-the-cuff and SOPs become tremendously valuable. Even then, attacks of this sort can be effective. I'd reference the attack on Turkish forces by the PKK last fall. Nearly thirty turkish troops dead on a facility long-established with procedures well-worked. New officers, though, from a newly-rotated unit were unaware of these procedures and threats and made their forces vulnerable through ignorance.
So too the attack on U.S. forces last summer. Here the base was poorly located to receive help if necessary. There simply wasn't room to reinforce without being directly exposed to enemy fire. It was ultimately up to the base and indirect fires to save itself.
Some thoughts...
fatman17
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Thanks for the updates, fatman17
Regarding the 2 Al-Qaeda Leaders
Any reason why our state machinery is not openly advertising the Al-Qaeda threat through mass media and making Pakistanis aware of the terrorist activities being carried out by them?
Making people aware of the threat is very important to ensure a complete isolation of Al-Qaeda since it is drawing sympathy from the anti US sentiments prevailing amongst the Muslims.
Since we have identified them as a certain threat against Pakistan and the Muslim world, shouldn't we ensure public awareness is increased to the extent that they realize the extent of damage caused by Al-Qaeda to Muslims instead of listening to conspiracy theories.
I always maintain that no matter what Osama's beef with his former handlers (USA) and the high handedness of USA against Muslims, what Osama is doing is absolutely against Islam and Muslims both so we should ensure that constant religious, political and military pressure is maintained on him.
Regarding the Mohammad Ghat camp attack
Did we use PAF to strafe these miscreants?
If not then do we lack the night fighting capability or was there any other reason which held us back?
Such a huge formation of the miscreants was a god given opportunity to deplete their ranks, i am wondering why we did not hammer them from the land and sky both instead of driving them back!
I still have not forgiven our high command for the few past instances where militants attacked in high numbers and even heavy artillery was not ordered to barrage their positions.
Any details on the political or military concerns/issues which held the PA and PAF back in this new attack?
on the first it is the job of the govt in power to do this. since their approach is so dis-jointed (its a simple matter of ego's here) we are suffering as the majority of the people unfortunately remain un-convinced (with a little bit of help from the media esp the urdu press).
on the second, i can only speculate as to why the PAF was not used, so its better not to comment!
All-Green
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Establishment of posts without proper support will not only get our troops killed but also give morale boosters to the miscreants and strengthen their grip on the poor local people which we cannot afford.
It is absolutely critical to pound them heavily using artillery and Air force and airlift experienced airborne troops in the logical LZ, blocking the escape route.
Regarding the gross inaccuracy, did Osama not have links with CIA?
Is there a thread open on this topic?
I believe that something like Afghan Service Bureau or Maktab al-Khidamat was even open in USA and Osama was also linked to it.
I would appreciate some information here.
Thanks S-2
All-Green
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It is true that conspiracy theories are being hatched by many in the local media and that makes things more gray in the minds of the public.
We need to make it clear in black and white what we are fighting for.
If our interests coincide with USA that does not mean we are towing a Jewish agenda!
These kind of ridiculous theories infest out minds and we lose focus.
I do hope a visionary person is given charge of turning things around in terms of inculcating into the public the core principals around which this war for Pakistan is being fought and should be fought!
We should clarify to the people that we are taking care of our own turf and this action does not mean that we agree with the war imposed on Iraq etc.
We are taking care of an evil organization in our own backyard.
This kind of nonsensical and nefarious organization and its sympathizers cannot be allowed to exist in the land of the PURE which was our Quaid-e-Azam's vision.
It is our duty to our motherland and our founding fathers to at least not let our country succumb to such lowlifes. We have to fight for our very existence here.
I wish we find such leadership which can show some guts in terms of open condemnation of these organizations through very targeted mass media campaigns.
I am very bitter about our leadership's lack of vision regarding this war in the hearts of the people which we have to win, let us hope and pray they focus on these things.
Half the battle is won in the hearts and the minds.
Regarding the second point, i asked because the attack started at 2am in the night.
What is the night fighting capability of PAF, especially in close ground support?
Are such squadrons assigned to this area currently which can conduct these operations at night?
Also is FC using night fighting equipment in their operations?
Would appreciate the insight.
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"Regarding the gross inaccuracy, did Osama not have links with CIA?"
In what way? We were quartermasters. Once our aid reached Pakistan, it disappeared into a black hole. We didn't distribute nor did we train-anybody. Eventually we set up a separate channel ot Massoud for fear that he was being shorted. There was no specific effort to attract arab recruits as a source of manpower. There were plenty of afghans for that purpose. There was a specific effort to attract arab money. To that end, OBL had value to some of the involved parties during the war. I don't believe us, though, and I'm unaware of him seeking out the C.I.A. for direct assistance. He needed none himself. That's my understanding of our practical involvement.
"Is there a thread open on this topic?"
Don't know there but I'd bet so.
"I believe that something like Afghan Service Bureau or Maktab al-Khidamat was even open in USA and Osama was also linked to it."
Yes, they had a fund-raising legacy here reaching back to the war. It was an organization absorbed in Pakistan by Al Qaeda following the afghan-Soviet conflict. 33 offices in America coast to coast. I think that their U.S. offices were closed by an FBI investigation following the first WTC bombings in 1994 by Rahman.
In what way? We were quartermasters. Once our aid reached Pakistan, it disappeared into a black hole. We didn't distribute nor did we train-anybody. Eventually we set up a separate channel ot Massoud for fear that he was being shorted. There was no specific effort to attract arab recruits as a source of manpower. There were plenty of afghans for that purpose. There was a specific effort to attract arab money. To that end, OBL had value to some of the involved parties during the war. I don't believe us, though, and I'm unaware of him seeking out the C.I.A. for direct assistance. He needed none himself. That's my understanding of our practical involvement.
"Is there a thread open on this topic?"
Don't know there but I'd bet so.
"I believe that something like Afghan Service Bureau or Maktab al-Khidamat was even open in USA and Osama was also linked to it."
Yes, they had a fund-raising legacy here reaching back to the war. It was an organization absorbed in Pakistan by Al Qaeda following the afghan-Soviet conflict. 33 offices in America coast to coast. I think that their U.S. offices were closed by an FBI investigation following the first WTC bombings in 1994 by Rahman.
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