The $4 Billion Bomb.

[Creder]

gah not this again...geez mayn i dont think anybody is more obsessed about eachother than Pakistanis and Indians... And guess what these country that you rag on and on about they dont even give two shi**ts about you guys.

 

[Windjammer]

You are calling an internet forum thread about Indian nuclear assets started by someone called mICHEAL(Karachi, Pakistan ) a neutral link on a reputable media



Dude.. just check around. Who is the whole world lining up to do nuclear business with??

What do you want, one of those pink umbrella in your cocktail, ?
Let me know when any one of those long lists bears any fruits.

 

[Windjammer]

What logic!



Jokes apart, India is stuck with fools here.

It so seems, the debenture has truly settled in as in actual fact India's obsession with it's neighbor's has exposed it's underbelly to the extent of becoming a laughing stock in the world.

 

[Ruag]

I am pretty darn proud of it actually that Pakistan did what she needed to. No harm has been done and yet Pakistan was able to get the requisite BM technology to deliver the payloads for the deterrence she needs.

Since Pakistan is hardly the only country in the world responsible for proliferation, please keep your misplaced judgments to yourselves.

I say Pakistan should do what she must to survive. Do it by hook or crook and in the process of it, we should not give a thought to what the others have to say. When our arses are on the line, we have but ourselves to count on. No one else gives a damn.

Also there is no morality in this to be worried about silly things like being "ashamed". If you want to be ashamed then start off being ashamed of the Indian nuclear program which let the nuclear genie out of the bottle in South Asia.

The Pakistani government and military planners did what they needed to do to provide a viable strategic deterrence to Pakistan. Had they failed in doing so, then this would have been shameful.

So lets get over the shame business...

As far as Gen Aslam Beg's comments go, I would only say that "Discretion is the better part of valour". There is no need to mouth off about such things. Pakistan has no direct bone to pick with Israel. The issue is India specific and we plan on keeping it that way.

Dude... the topic raised was not whether it was ethical for Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons or not. Every country will take the utmost steps to ensure its survival.

The topic of concern here is Pakistan distributing nuclear weapons technology to other countries in return for some money. Giving nuclear weapons to Iran or Saudi Arabia has got nothing to do with Pakistan's "survival". It only depicts the selfish, short-sighted and greedy attitude of some leaders in Pakistan.

And for this, Pakistan needs to be ashamed.

 

[blain2]

What logic!

Seriously, Pakistani leaders are so smart. No wonder South Asia is so peaceful.

Jokes apart, India is stuck with fools here.

The logic is not much different than when India threatens the whole of Pakistan for the acts of a few terrorist who carry out terrorist attacks inside of India. India does so believing that there must have been some collusion between the Pakistani state and such militants.

Pakistani calculation on a nuclear response is quite similar given that any attack against Pakistan or her nuclear assets would involve at least an Indian acquiescence.

This logic may seem a little off to some, but given the history and certain episodes, there are reasons for Pakistan to postulate such connections and decide upon the discussed course of action or reaction in the face of aggression.

Dude? Yeh kiya bala hai?

 

[blain2]

Dude... the topic raised was not whether it was ethical for Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons or not. Every country will take the utmost steps to ensure its survival.

The topic of concern here is Pakistan distributing nuclear weapons technology to other countries in return for some money. Giving nuclear weapons to Iran or Saudi Arabia has got nothing to do with Pakistan's "survival". It only depicts the selfish, short-sighted and greedy attitude of some leaders in Pakistan.

And for this, Pakistan needs to be ashamed.

Let me know if you come across a Pakistani who is ashamed of this episode. If you do find one, let me know about him, I will drop him a note saying that I am actually ashamed of his shame....

Pakistan did not sell any nuclear technology to anyone as a matter of state affairs. If one person and his network was involved, he did so for financial gains. That network was not a one man network. There were goray, kalay, and Pakistanis all involved. Funny that none of the other nations are ashamed and here we are being preached by none other than Indians on the need to be ashamed.

Please keep these episodes of shame to yourselves. You won't find any takers here on the Pakistan side.

If the US has given nuclear technology to Israel (this is a fact), why can't Pakistan help out KSA when that country has helped Pakistan in our times of need? Because others cheated the NPT and beat it, so only Pakistan should adhere to it? No thanks! I am not suggesting that Pakistan should proliferate. We are not, but what we had to do, we did and I am pretty happy about it.

As I have said before, we should do what we must, after all this is what the entire world does, yet there is no need to talk about any of this. In the end, life goes on. Saudis and Iranians are not stupid. The Iranians as a civilization have been around for a very long time, they are not going to destroy themselves by lobbing a supposed capability over Israel.

 

[TaimiKhan]

What logic!

Seriously, Pakistani leaders are so smart. No wonder South Asia is so peaceful.

Jokes apart, India is stuck with fools here.

Looking in the mirror would be a nice gesture to know who the real fool is around.

 

[Patriot]

It does not matter if it's 4 billion Pakistani or Chinese bomb (as Indians make allegations) The fact is we have nuclear weapons now and India cant do ****.We're the only Islamic country in the world to have atomic bombs. (I know it burns Indians).We're also building more bombs.It must feel miserable to Indians that they can't do anything to stop it.

 

[karan.1970]

What do you want, one of those pink umbrella in your cocktail, ?
Let me know when any one of those long lists bears any fruits.

Couldnt understand the comment about pink umbrella.. My bad.. will appreciate if you can drop me a note explaining it.. I am not familiar with this figure of speech

Once the fruits are borne, it will be fairly visible for all to see.. My comment there was to highlight the level of comfort the whole world feels (US, UK, France, Canada, Russia etc) to do nuclear business with India.

 

[Windjammer]

Couldnt understand the comment about pink umbrella.. My bad.. will appreciate if you can drop me a note explaining it.. I am not familiar with this figure of speech

Once the fruits are borne, it will be fairly visible for all to see.. My comment there was to highlight the level of comfort the whole world feels (US, UK, France, Canada, Russia etc) to do nuclear business with India.

Let me ask you, how do the economies thrive in some super power countries.?
Basically most of them sell arms and ammo to the world, in other words every day death and destruction. India boasts it's economy from human resources. Pakistan has nuclear know how, it's basically a deterrence against any aggression, the nuclear weapon hasn't been used in anger for over 60 years yet the Migs, Mirages and F series go on daily basis killing guilty/innocent alike. One could argue that Pakistan also has the right to share it's resources to boast it's economy as well.
But despite juicy incentives, it has resisted, it could also argue that since there is a discrimination against the so called Islamic bomb then so be it. Pakistan has never been a stepping stone for any power and since the west can not digest a powerful Muslim country or the emergence of China on the world stage, it strokes and honey moons India, but the question remains, at what cost. !!!!

 

[blain2]

Looking in the mirror would be a nice gesture to know who the real fool is around.

Good point. Its essentially a case of "Andhon ki basti may kana raja". The only difference is that that this raja can be a Pakistani one day and an Indian an other. Otherwise for some here to preach shame to others is a bloody joke.

If anyone had guts to call a spade a spade, they would admit that all sides have been involved in inappropriate dealings to further their nuclear goals. The ones who criticize Pakistan are bloody hypocrites (here I am talking about those involved in diplomacy and not members here although some toe the same hypocritical line here).

 

[Naradmuni]

Some cool plan which the extremists would learn about from any Bollywood flick.

The Dhoom Series producers should be told of this idea, they should make Dhoom 3 or 4 or 5 and use this plot. How a Pakistani extremist gets his hands on a nuke after stealing it from Kahuta and then India sends in their super duper ACP Jay or whatever to recover it back.

Extremists will learn a lot from this flick and implement it practically.

Extremists and their sympathiser exist in pakistani establishment, and it is no more a secret. Be it millitary establishment or nuclear establishment, or whatever. Dont expect the extremists only to be a bearded illeterate man sporting a turban and speaking pashto. They are all around, everywhere in pakistan, (even some think tanks in this forum ) If a reputed pakistani citizen, to have won the highest pakistani civilain award, the Nishan e pakistan, Mr A Q Khan could be indulged in something as serious as proliferating nuclear technology and in addition senior KRL officials personally meeting Osama bin Laden to offer NTech, then god have mercy on the subcontinent.

Taimi, this may not be as interesting as the DHOOM storyline but the consequences and counter consequences would be out of your filmy imagination.

There is a certain risk that pakistani weapons may land in some unworthy hands. remember, Nawaz Sharif and his government had absolutely no clue that musharraf and his men were doing kargil. History keeps on repeating itself and that is what worries the pentagon and the south block.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Extremists and their sympathiser exist in pakistani establishment, and it is no more a secret. Be it millitary establishment or nuclear establishment, or whatever. Dont expect the extremists only to be a bearded illeterate man sporting a turban and speaking pashto. They are all around, everywhere in pakistan, (even some think tanks in this forum ) If a reputed pakistani citizen, to have won the highest pakistani civilain award, the Nishan e pakistan, Mr A Q Khan could be indulged in something as serious as proliferating nuclear technology and in addition senior KRL officials personally meeting Osama bin Laden to offer NTech, then god have mercy on the subcontinent.

Taimi, this may not be as interesting as the DHOOM storyline but the consequences and counter consequences would be out of your filmy imagination.

There is a certain risk that pakistani weapons may land in some unworthy hands. remember, Nawaz Sharif and his government had absolutely no clue that musharraf and his men were doing kargil. History keeps on repeating itself and that is what worries the pentagon and the south block.

Feel sorry for the level of knowledge and intellectualism you got there as evident from your post above.

After reading it, it is futile even to argue with a one liner from my side.

Whatever Indians say on this forum is 101% correct, no arguing with them.

 

[Naradmuni]

Feel sorry for the level of knowledge and intellectualism you got there as evident from your post above.

After reading it, it is futile even to argue with a one liner from my side.

Whatever Indians say on this forum is 101% correct, no arguing with them.

What was that for?

Buddy each and every sentence of my post is unbeatable and factually correct with references to recent happenings which even you cant deny. How come you doubt my level of knowledge and intellectualism?

I can understand your helplessness here but you cant just simply discard my valid concerns, which BTW is shared by everyone around the globe.

BTW, you are free to argue and prove me wrong that AQ khan never indulged in proliferation and KRL had no contacts with Al Qaieda and in pakistan Civilain government is always aware of what its millitary does.

 

[Ruag]

Let me know if you come across a Pakistani who is ashamed of this episode. If you do find one, let me know about him, I will drop him a note saying that I am actually ashamed of his shame....

Please keep these episodes of shame to yourselves. You won't find any takers here on the Pakistan side.

Oh no! I don't think anyone is suggesting that Pakistanis are ashamed. Contrary to that, we all know how Pakistanis continue to treat AQ Khan as their most beloved celebrity even though he himself admitted to transferring nuclear tech to Iran and Libya.

So, as you suggested, let us keep aside the "shame business" as it has absolutely no relevance to some people under any circumstances. I understand.

Pakistan did not sell any nuclear technology to anyone as a matter of state affairs. If one person and his network was involved, he did so for financial gains. That network was not a one man network. There were goray, kalay, and Pakistanis all involved. Funny that none of the other nations are ashamed and here we are being preached by none other than Indians on the need to be ashamed.

"One person and his network" huh? Here -

washingtonpost.com: Musharraf Named in Nuclear Probe

According to the man's own admission, his network included several Army officials and then-Pakistani President was aware of it. Hmm... but still, that network is very small and insignificant. It obviously could not have operated without blessings of the Pakistani government. And yeah... it is obviously not a matter of "state affairs".

So, let us forget the "shame business". I understand.

If the US has given nuclear technology to Israel (this is a fact), why can't Pakistan help out KSA when that country has helped Pakistan in our times of need? Because others cheated the NPT and beat it, so only Pakistan should adhere to it? No thanks! I am not suggesting that Pakistan should proliferate. We are not, but what we had to do, we did and I am pretty happy about it.

"Had to do"? You are talking as if KSA put a gun down Pakistan's throat and asked it to transfer nuclear technology.

And you are actually suggesting that since US transferred nuclear technology to Israel, it somehow justifies acts of nuclear proliferation by all other states. In other words, US is being suggested as a "moral guidebook". Quite daring, I say.

And why only talk about KSA? Why not talk about Iran and North Korea? -- those nations which openly threaten to use nuclear weapons against enemy states. Supporting such nations only adds to political instability in their concerned regions which can have disastrous consequences.

But yeah, "if Uncle Sam can do it, then why not me!".

As I have said before, we should do what we must, after all this is what the entire world does, yet there is no need to talk about any of this. In the end, life goes on. Saudis and Iranians are not stupid. The Iranians as a civilization have been around for a very long time, they are not going to destroy themselves by lobbing a supposed capability over Israel.

Oh really? Some people keep forgetting the most infamous remark of our times -

Israel must be wiped off the map.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/world/africa/26iht-iran.html

Unfortunately, the nuclear trigger is not in the hand of the Iranian people but this one obnoxious man.

And now for the North Korean gem -

We will use nuclear weapons in a merciless offensive if provoked.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/world/africa/26iht-iran.html

Very good times we live in. Don't we? And we must thank Pakistan for creating this utopia.