The $4 Billion Bomb.

[blain2]

Your goodwill speech will make no sense to extremists if they somehow get to hold the nuclear trigger in Pakistan.

Really? and how would the extremists get their hands on these triggers?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Really? and how would the extremists get their hands on these triggers?

Some cool plan which the extremists would learn about from any Bollywood flick.

The Dhoom Series producers should be told of this idea, they should make Dhoom 3 or 4 or 5 and use this plot. How a Pakistani extremist gets his hands on a nuke after stealing it from Kahuta and then India sends in their super duper ACP Jay or whatever to recover it back.

Extremists will learn a lot from this flick and implement it practically.

 

[Mercenary]

This Article is So OLd....

 

[deckingraj]

If you had known what i said, the you wouldn't reply again with a master piece post once again.

Well if you have already decided that my post is BS then i can't do much ...can i???

In simple words i tried to explain that in what context the Indian part had been mentioned, if you had understood it then either you would have self deleted your post or did an edit to make it relevant with the context in which the discussion was being done, but you came back with another master piece.

But did i refute to what you are saying??? In fact i agree to this conclusion of yours which is if india allows her air-space or give any logistic support to any attack on Pakistan nuclear site than she is very well party to the attack...who is denying that part??

And if US tomorrow attacks Pakistan nuke sites, India would have nothing to do with it, but on the contrary if it provides logistic support, airspace, air bases, fuel & other stuff, then yeah India would be liable for punitive action as this would mean an act of war, plain and simple.

And i am in agreement with yours... What i am trying to say is the earlier part of your statement....which is if India is not providing any such support...So in my views my post is very much in context as per the tone of the article...I did infact shared the expert as well which is putting me off...

Don't plzzz come with a BS post once again,

Sorry if i did not live up to the expectation.. However i don't see any BS in my post...Yeah i do see you are not liking it...

there is no war mongering or insulting thing in my post that Indian members start jumping up. Its plain simple equation, tomorrow India would do the same thing if Pakistan gives its air space, air bases, fuel & logistics to any third party for attacking Indian nuke assets or whatever.

I agree.. I am not sure if i accuse you of any war mongering and neither am I jumping though you seems to be a little excited....

 

[blain2]

Is there any other country who has been so careless in spreading technologies for nuclear bomb to another country.

One should be ashamed.

I am pretty darn proud of it actually that Pakistan did what she needed to. No harm has been done and yet Pakistan was able to get the requisite BM technology to deliver the payloads for the deterrence she needs.

Since Pakistan is hardly the only country in the world responsible for proliferation, please keep your misplaced judgments to yourselves.

I say Pakistan should do what she must to survive. Do it by hook or crook and in the process of it, we should not give a thought to what the others have to say. When our arses are on the line, we have but ourselves to count on. No one else gives a damn.

Also there is no morality in this to be worried about silly things like being "ashamed". If you want to be ashamed then start off being ashamed of the Indian nuclear program which let the nuclear genie out of the bottle in South Asia.

The Pakistani government and military planners did what they needed to do to provide a viable strategic deterrence to Pakistan. Had they failed in doing so, then this would have been shameful.

So lets get over the shame business...

As far as Gen Aslam Beg's comments go, I would only say that "Discretion is the better part of valour". There is no need to mouth off about such things. Pakistan has no direct bone to pick with Israel. The issue is India specific and we plan on keeping it that way.

 

[Chanakyaa]

I am pretty darn proud of it actually that Pakistan did what she needed to. No harm has been done and yet Pakistan was able to get the requisite BM technology to deliver the payloads for the deterrence she needs.

Since Pakistan is hardly the only country in the world responsible for proliferation, please keep your misplaced judgments to yourselves.

I say Pakistan should do what she must to survive. Do it by hook or crook and in the process of it, we should not give a thought to what the others have to say. When our arses are on the line, we have but ourselves to count on. No one else gives a damn.

Also there is no morality in this to be worried about silly things like being "ashamed". If you want to be ashamed then start off being ashamed of the Indian nuclear program which let the nuclear genie out of the bottle in South Asia.

The Pakistani government and military planners did what they needed to do to provide a viable strategic deterrence to Pakistan. Had they failed in doing so, then this would have been shameful.

So lets get over the shame business...

Blain i agree to ur statement and personally find no wrong in the Process of the Pakistan getting the Bomb as u say - By Hook or Crook.

Defence to enemy is the prime concern and you can employ any method that suits u.

But the Problem arises and u must admit that Mr. Khan has been the most embarrassing character in the history of Pakistan, this has been to an extent that you had to Trial the very man whom u gave the Highest Civilan award and later told him to say - He Betrayed Your country -- and even later his Story and letters say something that u r forced to deny.

Lets be frank, Khan did serve u like no other Patriot he did really well.
But things go really bad when the same man makes u the Global hub for Nuclear Proliferation.

If tomorrow AlQuada Uses a Dirty Bomb anywhere... u know the Country which will be blamed.

 

[gowthamraj]

One should always look a little closer to home also.


India’s Nuclear proliferation Rupee News

pls dont give rupee news for reference.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Is there any other country who has been so careless in spreading technologies for nuclear bomb to another country.

One should be ashamed.

If you are referring to Pakistan, then kindly update yourself that it is not the country which has spread technologies to spread nukes. If a country can't make a nuke reactor, how come it can give tech to others.

Ask the western & European countries and their companies which help and sell nuke tech to anyone on the international market.

Study lil bit that how many countries got nuke tech on the black market, all made in west or European countries.

So tell someone else to be ashamed or looking into the mirror would also be nice.

Ask who made Israel gets its nuke plant and nukes, who gave Iraq its nuke plant and hell lot of European nuke tech equipment, who gave South Africa the nuke tech, who is giving Iran the nuke tech and the plant and protecting it from US.

And last if not the least, if my memory is correct, didn't Canada broke nuke relations with India for either stealing nuke fuel for use in the 74 test or illegal use of peaceful nuke tech in making nuke weapons.

So who should be more ashamed ???

 

[Windjammer]

Forget aaj tak. Any neutral link on a reputable media site will do. What, can't find any? what a surprise

Hope this will make you sleep better.


Indian Atomic Weapons are Unsafe: & can be taken Easily by Extremist Hindus - Topix

 

[karan.1970]

Hope this will make you sleep better.


Indian Atomic Weapons are Unsafe: & can be taken Easily by Extremist Hindus - Topix

You are calling an internet forum thread about Indian nuclear assets started by someone called mICHEAL(Karachi, Pakistan ) a neutral link on a reputable media



Dude.. just check around. Who is the whole world lining up to do nuclear business with??

 

[Gazzi]

By the way, people seem to forget that although the blame is put on Khan sahib for the prolfieration, he has pointed out clearly, that he had given Iran businesses in EUROPE who can help Iran with nuclear material, and it is they who sold techonologies to Iran.

In essence, it is the Europeans who have given that info to Iran, its just Pakistan has a very weak PR and media campaign to highlight it.

 

[Dazzler]

Need a neutral link? There you go mate

On August 27, 2009 in an interview with Times of India K Santhanam, senior scientist and DRDO representative at Pokhran II admitted that the only thermonuclear device tested was a "fizzle". In nuclear parlance, a test is described as a fizzle when it fails to meet the desired yield. Santhanam, was director for 1998 test site preparations in Pokhran test range, has stated hat the thermonuclear explosions conducted at that time were ‘actually of much below expectations and the tests were perhaps more a fizzle rather than a big bang’. This is the first time some Indian senior scientist gave some reservation about the nuke programme. He was the closely associated with the 1998 tests.

The government officials did not endorsed Santhanam’s point view. In this connection Interior Minister R. Chidambaram was in state of confusion while talking to the journalists after the meeting of Lok Sabha Chidambaram, who was the Chairman of the Department of Atomic Energy in 1998, totally dismissed the scientist statement and said that there is no controversy over the yield of Pokhran-II nuclear tests. The world’s analysts have number of times raised questions about the security of Indian nuclear programme. British nuke experts have challenged the claims while saying that the actual combined yield for the fission device and thermonuclear bomb was not more than 20 KT. Santhanam’s view was shared by nuclear scientist Subramaniam, who said “there was something wrong with the seismic signals which seemed pretty weak to me then… so I would tend to agree with Santhanam”.

The Santhanam’s disclosing uncovered the face of Indian leadership. In short the recent revelation of senior nuke scientist put the question mark on the credibility of Indian nuke prgramme. The exact position of the explosion of 1998 can be judged from the following:-



Test
Device
Date
Yield Claimed
Yield Reported
Fission Device 18 May 1974 12-15 Kiloton 4-6 Kiloton
Shakti 1 Thermonuclear Device 11 May 1998 43-60 Kiloton 12-25 Kiloton
Shakti 2 Fission Device 11 May 1998 12 Kiloton ???
Shakti 3 Low-yield Device 11 May 1998 0.2 Kiloton Low
Shakti 4 Low-yield Device 11 May 1998 0.5 Kiloton Low
Shakti 5 Low-yield Device 11 May 1998 0.3 Kiloton Low

Indian nuclear controlling authorities yet to formulate elaborate arrangements to control and secure their nuclear programs. But the biggest dilemma is that US and Russia have concluded number of nuclear deals with India while ignoring all international rules and regulations in relation to the safety features of nuclear programme. In addition to the Russian deal, the French nuclear conglomerate Areva concluded an agreement Dec. 18 to provide India with 300 tons of uranium for reactor fuel.

Currently; India has a total of 17 operating nuclear power reactors and has plans to construct an additional 25-30 by 2030 to meet expected civil and military future needs. At present she has 35 – 45 nuclear arsenals of various yields but security aspects of these weapons always remained concern to the world community and sincere Indian officials too.

According to the Uranium Information Center (UIC), India's program extends from uranium exploration and mining through fuel fabrication, heavy water production, reactor design and construction, to reprocessing and waste management. India, the UIC says, has a small fast breeder reactor and is about to build a much larger one. It is also developing technology to use its abundant resources of thorium as a nuclear fuel. It has 14 small nuclear power reactors in commercial operation, nine under construction - including two large ones, and more planned.

It’s an eye opener and point of concern to US nuke experts that Indian nuke progrramme is one of the most risky programme.

There are 152 financial corruptions and theft cases of uranium have also been reported and registered with the police since 1984. The cases include crimes like abductions and murders of staff, stolen of uranium, transfer of technology to other countries through underworld, smuggling of weapons and electronic equipment being used for preparation of nuke arsenals and disappearance of complete shipment of uranium. The increase in rate of incidents in is becoming great security hazard to the mankind and threatening regional security too.

According to Fairness.com, a US-based information clearinghouse, radiation emitted from the country's nuclear reactors is three times higher than international norms allow. Of its 14 nuclear power reactors, only three reportedly meet international standards. Indian governments always tried to hide about leaks and accidents from the reactors. An Indian scientist who prefers not to be named reported, "An estimated 300 incidents of a serious nature have occurred, causing radiation leaks and physical damage to workers."

The reports further reveal those famous politicians, top brass of intelligence agencies and scientists those remained involved in illegal smuggling and transfer of nuclear technologies to other countries and local extremists Hindu organizations.

On June 13, 2009 Indian famous nuke scientist Lokanathan Mahalingam found dead from Kali River. The scientist had been mysteriously disappeared from the Kaiga Atomic Power Station on June 8, 2009. The Kaiga plant is located near one of the biggest naval bases, Project Seabird. The scientist was working on the atomic plant since last eight years. Reportedly, he was in possession of highly sensitive information and might be doubted for Indian nuke proliferation. Mahalingam was involved in training apprentices on a replica of the actual reactor. So he had knowledge of working of the reactor. Earlier too on November 11, 2006, Director of Uttaranchal Space Application Centre, Dr Anil Kumar Tiwari, was also shot dead by an unidentified person near his residence. About six weeks ago, another NPC non-technical employee Ravi Mule was found dead in the township. He too had gone for morning walk. Police have not cracked the earlier cases and similarly still is clue less in the current case of scientist.

The contents revealed in above Para confirmed that the world most treacherous nuke proliferation is going on in India which made her nuclear programme unsafe and the most dangerous too. The Hindu extremists with the help of Indian nuke scientists seem to be involved in illegal transfer of nuclear technology to Israel and some western countries through underworld organizations to generate the funds for the completion of “Maha Baharat agenda.

There have been widespread allegations that well-connected manufacturers cut deals with politicians selling defective parts to build reactors. Thus general masses rightly in the state of panic with regard to the safety of nuke programme. The series of incidents at India's nuclear plants has raised fears of a disaster equivalent to or bigger than the American nuclear leak at Three Mile Island in 1975 or the horrendous accident at Chernobyl in what was then the Soviet Union in 1986, which so far is responsible for the deaths of at least 6,000 persons, with many more expected to die later.

According to the South India Tribune, India has ordered two plants shut over the last two years because of safety reasons in the face of plans to generate 20,000 megawatts of nuclear power by 2020. Serious accidents and shortcomings have been reported starting in 1969 at the Tarapur, Rajasthan, Madras, Narora and Kaigba Atomic.

In 2008 Russian President Medvedev and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh signed nuclear co-operation accord for construction of the four new plants at Kundankulam stipulated under the Russia. Similarly Washington too has finalized 123 NuclearCivil deal with New Delhi. However, in this regard only some procedural issues and formalities are left in the way of implementation of the accord.

French, Russia, America and IAEA are having double standards over nuclear programmes. The revealed countries and UN nuclear watch dog IAEA always tried to put sanctions and criticized over Pakistan peaceful nuclear programme. Iranian nuclear programme which was started with the support of US in 1950 has only been targeted after Iranian Islamic revolution. India has always neglected international laws in relation to its nuclear programme. She has refused to signed CTBT and NPT. But US, Russia and America too have never respected the opinion of the world humanity and went for agreement with India while putting sidesecurity concerns of nuke experts. In short the recent statements of K Santhanam, repeated incidents and nuke proliferation have made the Indian Nuke Programme, the world’smost dangerous one. IAEA should carry out detail inspection of her civil and military nuke plants. US, Russia and French should reconsider their decisions of further continuation of pacts without elaboratesecurity arrangements and establishing Indian Nuke command control authority. Indian authorities should devise some system to enhance security arrangements to minimize the incidents at their nuke plants.

Credibility of Indian Nuke Programme

 

[Dazzler]

Another one here

According to the times of India the Mahalingam went on morning jogging and has been missing since then. As per his family members, he did not carry money or his cell phone with him and went for walk whereas the security guards on duty said that they haven’t seen him leaving the campus. It is mentionable here that he was also disappeared 10 years back once was working at the Kalpakkam atomic station and returned to home after spending about five days. On his return, he expressed that he had gone to seek spiritual solace.

About six weeks ago, another NPC non-technical employee Ravi Mule was found dead in the township. He too had gone for morning walk. Police have not cracked the case so far. The police and plant officials are still clueless about his whereabouts. Reportedly, RAW and IB are investigating the matter of increase of cases of Nuclear Proliferation, Thus, there are country wide rumors prevailing in the staff working in the nuclear projects that Intelligence agencies might pick up some more staff and scientists to identify the actual culprits involved in the Uranium theft cases.

The above incident of abduction of the scientist and murder of one of the staff member again confirmed that the security of Indian nuclear programme is highly questionable since its inception. Global powers and IAEA has also showed concern over the kidnapping of the scientist. It is also mentionable here that 152 theft cases of uranium has have reported and registered with the police since 1984.

Indian top listed companies remained engage in illegal importing and exporting of nuclear equipments. For example Berkeley Nucleonic Corporation (BNC), an American company was fined US $ 300,000 for exporting a nuclear component to the Bhaba Atomic Research Center in India and also in December 2005, United States imposed sanctions on two Indian firms for selling missile goods and chemical arms material to Iran in violation of India’s commitment to prevent proliferation. In the same year, Indian scientists, Dr. Surendar and Y S R Prasad had been blacklisted by the US due to their involvement in nuclear theft. Despite expelling of said two scientists, no decrease in cases of Indian nuclear proliferation has been observed. However, India did not made any issue out of it and preferred to keep quite. Again, in December, 2006, a container packed with radioactive material had been stolen from an Indian fortified research atomic facility near Mumbai

In nutshell, the specious activities of the Indian nuke scientists and the staff working on the nuclear plants are quite alarming for the global security and peace.

There is a general perception in the local masses and nuclear analysts that Indian nuclear program is totally in unsafe hands. The nuclear programme became a hazards to the mankind because of continue leakage of information, accidents and stealing of uranium. The American nuclear experts have also showed the serious concern over the US – India nuclear pact which was concluded by Bush Administration in 2008. Reliable sources reveal that Obama administration is quite seriously thinking over the revision of nuclear pact with New Delhi.

The recent release of US document on the internet is another security concern in the serious circles of the Washington. The list includes both government and civilian nuclear facilities and covering the details and location of nation’s 103 commercial nuclear power reactors. The equipment useful in preparation of nuclear device is available in the open American’s markets and reportedly being sold to Indian organization illegally.

Thus it is evident from the above narrated facts that the release of US nukes document, selling of equipment in local American market, theft cases of Indian Uranium, disappearance and abduction of Indian Senior Nuke Scientist seem to be correlated to each other. Probably, there are chances that a chain of International nuclear smugglers headed by some Indian boss / authority is in action from their headquarters located in India. The transferring of nuke technology unlawfully to Israel and India has been instrumented through this underworld organization. Interestingly, KGB and CIA though remained dagger drawn with each other on the nuke issue but never tried to unearth the Indian – Israel nuke capability in detail. Some nuke defence and political analyst reveled that the new cold war between Russia and US has again been started. The release of American documents on internet might be done by some KGB agents present in pentagon. It is also a known fact that Indian nuke programme have been launched with help of former USSR. It is also possible that the kidnapped scientist would be having connection with Russia. Thus CIA abducted him to know the actual facts and information of Indian nuke programme.

In short, IAEA should have an eye over the Indian nuclear program. UNO should prove her worth to stop Indian nuclear proliferation which is becoming quite risky day by day. The US watch dog (IAEA) should help India in stopping the world most dangerous proliferation. At the same time US should depute some intelligence agency to carry out detailed investigation with the view to further proliferation of her nuclear equipment in the local markets to rest of the world.

Indian Nuke Proliferation: Abduction of Mahalingam

 

[Ruag]

...and Pakistan sent an emissary to India to warn that no matter who attacked it, Pakistan would retaliate against India. “We told India frankly that this is the threat we perceive and this is the action we are taking and the action we will take. It was a real deterrent,” he recalled telling the Iranians.

What logic!

Seriously, Pakistani leaders are so smart. No wonder South Asia is so peaceful.

Jokes apart, India is stuck with fools here.

 

[Gazzi]

What logic!

Seriously, Pakistani leaders are so smart. No wonder South Asia is so peaceful.

Jokes apart, India is stuck with fools here.

My friend, when you decide to call our country and people fools, then be prepared for a tirade of abuse to your country along with its leadership staring from Gandhi to Bal Thackaray. So please keep this tone to yourself

Ph and if we wish to take about fools and stupidity, then please see this from another thread with link at the bottom

Indian scientists are turning to an ancient Hindu text in their search for the secrets of effective stealth warfare.


(We) do not for a moment think that the idea is crazy

Professor SV Bhavasar

They believe the book, the Arthashastra, written more than 2,300 years ago, will give Indian troops the edge on their enemies.

India's Defence Minister George Fernandes has approved funding for the project, and told parliament recently that experiments had begun.

The research is being carried out by experts from the Defence Research and Development Organisation and scientists from the University of Pune and National Institute of Virology in western India.

The book includes the recipe for a single meal that will keep a soldier fighting for a month, methods of inducing madness in the enemy as well as advice on chemical and biological warfare.

Powders and remedies

The book was written by military strategist Kautilya, also known as Chanakya and Vishnugupta, a prime minister in the court of India's first emperor Chandragupta Maurya, in the fourth century BC.

Mural of Emperor Chandragupta Maurya
The author was an adviser to India's first emperor

"All of us are excited about the possibilities and do not for a moment think that the idea is crazy," said Professor SV Bhavasar, a space scientist who has spent many years researching the Arthashastra.

"Decoding ancient texts is not an easy task but we are very hopeful of success," he added.

According to a Pune University report, the book says that soldiers fed with a single meal of special herbs, milk and clarified butter can stay without food for an entire month.

Shoes made of camel skin smeared with a serum made from the flesh of owls and vultures can help soldiers walk hundreds of miles during a war without feeling tired.

A powder made from fireflies and the eyes of wild boar can endow soldiers with night vision.

Chemical warfare

Kautilya wrote in the Arthashastra that a ruler could use any means to attain his goal, and Book XIV touches on aspects of chemical and biological warfare.

Indian soldier
Scientists say the text can help in modern warfare

The book says that smoke from burning a powder made from the skin and excreta of certain reptiles, animals and birds can cause madness and blindness in the enemy.

The book also provides the formula to create a lethal smoke by burning certain species of snakes, insects and plant seeds in makeshift laboratories.

"Our focus at present is on how humans can control hunger for longer durations and walk for longer period without experiencing fatigue,

Project leader Dr VS Ghole, head of the environmental engineering department of Pune university, said the team was now focusing on the methods of controlling hunger and increasing stamina.

"Once we have made some headway we will go into researching Kautilya's notes on night vision and other fields," he said.

Professor SV Bhavasar said the team also had plans to research other ancient Hindu texts.

These include manuscripts which "claim to provide secrets of manufacturing planes which can not be destroyed by any external force, could be motionless in the sky and even invisible to enemy planes."

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BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | India defence looks to ancient text