Thank You USA

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Turining the tides. Close Call . Thankyou USA .

 

[waraich66]

In my opinion, its not the drone attacks which have caused so much damage to the islamists, infact they were doomed when they opened the gates of war with the muslim coutries govts. who previously had soft corner for them and who considered them as their first line of defence.

things would not trun good for these guirellas unless untill they renounce violence against the govts of muslim countries and keep their words not to attack muslims govts or civillians everafter.

otherwise they would surely be inihialated sooner or later.

USA, Isreal, India and Russia are just trying to capitalize on this opportunity and weaken both govts of islamic countries and islamist groups.

its a 200 years old tactics of divide and rule of the britishers...

What is your opinion about muslim countries supporting US aggression against muslim countries.

Pakistan and Iran supported US against elimination of Talaban government ,still US could not find out OBL for which whole WOT was launched.

Similarly Iran and Arabs supported US against Sadam government but in fact Sadam dont have any WMD.

In my opinion insurgency or terrorism in muslim countries is resultant of Israili aggression and US full support for Israil.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

THANK YOU SIR JEE USA for fighting the big bad Taliban for the Pakistan military. Without drones, our capability only amounts to terrorism against India. We hope to see continual bombardment of Pakistan and as usual we are pleased to be grouped with failed states like Afghanistan as the aid money is oh so sweet. May I be the first to invite China to strafe us? It helps me sleep at night....

 

[waraich66]

THANK YOU SIR JEE USA for fighting the big bad Taliban for the Pakistan military. Without drones, our capability only amounts to terrorism against India. We hope to see continual bombardment of Pakistan and as usual we are pleased to be grouped with failed states like Afghanistan as the aid money is oh so sweet. May I be the first to invite China to strafe us? It helps me sleep at night....

One day US will capture whole country then you realise the value of independence.

Your Sir Jee is not going to leave your country , they have long term plan dont worry.

 

[muse]

It's good that we are getting rid of these bad guys, but we must also try to minimize collateral damage. Perhaps an intensive media campaign in the affected areas to humiliate the bad guys for putting civilians at risk by hinding amongst them.

The other option might be covert operations with joint US/Pakistani swat teams

See, none of you, and that in itself is curious, has asked how or rather why is it that Al-Qaeeida and Talib position themselves among civilians?? In effect they are using civilians as human shields, isn't that so?? And yet none of you have thus far, had any problem with this - Why??

US and Pakistani COIN practices have reguired the seperation of the insurgent from the civilian society and while the US has focused on protection of the civilains, the Pakistani strategy, as we saw in Lanka and Swat, is to drain the swamp, that is to say get the civilians out of the effected area and then exhaust themselves on the Islamist insurgents - both policies have merit, whereas the US policy is backed up by their financial strength.

The Islamist insurgency is a cancer in the body of the nation state of Pakistan and just as surgery removes not only the cancer but also healthy tissue, in the same way, we must acknowledge that those described as "civilians" have been caught up in the drone attacks, at the same time we must acknowledge that the Islamist insurgency has been assisted by some so called "innocent" civilians - after all, if a house in which insurgents are or use, we must ask, in a effort to discern the "innocent" who come the Islamikst insurgents are being housed in a compound owned by a specific person, how come the "innocents" are collecting rent and shopping food and preparing meals for these Islamist insurgents, in effect they are facilitating the insurgency --- A question for those who take exception to the drone attacks, Why is it not the responsibility of parents and tribal leaders to ensure that their wives and children are no where near the Islamist insurgents??? The answer is simple, the civilians are human shields and while the drones target the leadership fo Al-Qaeeida and Talib, it is the propaganda of the Islamist insurgency which some have fallen victim to, first they use human shields, then complain that their human shields did not protect them the leadership cadres of the the Al-Qaeeida and Talib.

Bottom line is like this - the drone attacks have been exceptionally successful at targeting the leadership of the Islamist insurgency and this has allowed the Pakistan army to devastate the islamist insurgency - and in order to kill the islamist insurgency, the drone attacks will continue and ought to.

 

[r3alist]

are you ignoring my points muse?

 

[muse]

.

You are as welcome as any other to make your point or offer readers alternate views about the success of drone attacks in eliminating Al-Qaeeda and Talib leadership -- I do note that you perfer to not address the issue of using civilians as human shields, or has that been a oversight?

Baitullah was a Pakistan,. as is Hakeemullah, as is Muslim khan and a host of other insurgents and their helpers and enablers, am I sorry these are dead or captured? No, was there collateral damage incurred in their death or arrest? yes, and I can live with that.

I deal with your question in my human shield post, you have been unable to offer a rationale for the Al-Qaeeda and talib use of human shields nor of the facilitation of insurgency.

 

[Developereo]

See, none of you, and that in itself is curious, has asked how or rather why is it that Al-Qaeeida and Talib position themselves among civilians?? In effect they are using civilians as human shields, isn't that so?? And yet none of you have thus far, had any problem with this - Why??

How do you know they are renting? Why is it not possible that they buy out a house in the middle of a village? How can you blame the neighbors if some guy sells his house for a bundle of dough?

How can you possibly blame children for being curious? Especially if the house in question has weapons and fancy expensive gadgets that always fascinate kids? Parents cannot control their children 24/7 even in the best of circumstances. Here we are talking about poor villagers who are out working all day and can't afford babysitters to watch over their kids while they're gone.

Do you honestly think the US authorities and the global media would be as callous about collateral damage if these were white kids or Jewish kids?

Just imagine, if these people were hiding in Russia or China, the US would not be bombing their civilians with such impunity. You can bet your bottom dollar that the US would find some alternative instead of callously killing women, children and innocent bystanders.

I think we should maintain a list of all the civilians killed by these drone attacks. Just as the Americans, the Europeans and the Australians vow to remember their terrorism victims, we must also never forget our victims due to American terrorism. Lest we forget.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Parents cannot control their children 24/7 even in the best of circumstances.

Just imagine, if these people were hiding in Russia or China, the US would not be bombing their civilians with such impunity.

I think we should maintain a list of all the civilians killed by these drone attacks.

Delevopereo,

Most of the drone strikes are either on vehicles or on compounds in the early morning hours. You are just speculating that innocent children are present in Taliban safe houses when the drones strike. Most likely any children who are killed are the children of the terrorists themselves.

Russia and China would not let international terrorists take refuge in their territory. They control their territory. Pakistan does not. Pakistan's sovereignty is forfeit because Pakistan forfeits it.

You cannot make a list of civilians killed because Pakistan's Government does not have authority where drone strikes occur. Pakistan's Government has no first hand knowledge of who is killed and has no way of determining who is "innocent" and who is a collaborator of the terrorists. Do FATA women and children even have Pakistani identity cards or records? Women and children of the terrorists are not "innocent", they are co-operating human shields, purposefully put at risk by the terrorists themselves.

If Pakistan had the same control over its territory that China does, there would be no international terrorists and no USA drone strikes. End of story.

 

[muse]

Develepero


OK - fair questions, but not well thought, consider:

How do you know they are renting? QUOTE]

We know about "renting" beacuse of previous instances - but that does not mean that it applies in all instances.

Why is it not possible that they buy out a house in the middle of a village?

It is, but you are now using a city mindset, think about the number of commercial property transaction in the FATA -

Howw can you blame the neighbors if some guy sells his house for a bundle of dough?[/

Large cash transaction are irregular, while cash transactions are the norm, large cash transaction, the appearance of "strangers", these in themselves make it clear who one is dealing with, and yet the neighbors allow their wives and children to mingle with the strangers??

Just imagine

Why brother, why imagine, why hypothsize when we can deal with the reality, the reality is that everyone knows who the terrorists are - how do I know that? I will tell you, soon I hope. See, we need not apologise to anyone, we do what we do for the majority of Pakistanis, and we make no apology for sending islamist terrorists and their enablers to hell. Cause we don't have to, no point in imagining, we deal with reality.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Tohir Yuldashev should have been executed by the pak millitary when they had him entrapped years ago---but then he escaped in a pickup truck right throught the FC quadrant---amazing wasn't that---that was the time when pak security forces could not do any thing right---people escaping security forces custody all the time---.

We the Pakistanis allowed these radicals to do their thing for too long---even after 9/11. Our millitary assessment of the afghan war and its future effects, was again set in failure due to the ignorance and incompetence of the general staff---.

Pakistan and pakistanis have taken the sole contract of the muslim world---of every radical muslim is a muslim brother---every lunatic muslim is a muslim brother----every fanatic muslim is a muslim brother---every unwanted muslim by their parent country is also a muslim brother---.

By giving protection to these lunatics---pakistan had become the asylum / sanctuary of the lunatics of the muslim world---all the rejects of the islamic world ended up in pakistan---all the mental cases---all the psychos of the muslim nations----people whom their govt never ever wanted to set free on the street---ended up in pakistan---and what did the pakistanis do---they thought that these arabs etc---who were speaking in their native language ARABIC---were actually reciting the holy qura'an---they carried them on their shoulders and made them their heroes---how pathetic and low a nation can go---.

 

[Developereo]

Most likely any children who are killed are the children of the terrorists themselves.

Sins of the father...

Russia and China would not let international terrorists take refuge in their territory. They control their territory. Pakistan does not. Pakistan's sovereignty is forfeit because Pakistan forfeits it.

This is not the fault of the kids. Just because Pakistan doesn't control the territory doesn't mean these people don't have the same rights as everyone else.

You cannot make a list of civilians killed because Pakistan's Government does not have authority where drone strikes occur.

The villagers probably keep records.

Women and children of the terrorists are not "innocent", they are co-operating human shields, purposefully put at risk by the terrorists themselves.

Were the women and children at Waco and Ruby Rigde guilty? Especially minor children. Remember the national outrage over Waco? Now imagine a Waco every week.

All this rationalizing is a way to wash the hands off the uncomfortable fact that innocent people are being killed.

We know about "renting" beacuse of previous instances - but that does not mean that it applies in all instances.

OK, even if one guy rents out his house, how does that implicate the neighbors and their kids?

the appearance of "strangers", these in themselves make it clear who one is dealing with, and yet the neighbors allow their wives and children to mingle with the strangers??

It's a tribal culture which welcomes guests. Even in small towns everywhere, people mingle with their neighbors. This is not like a large metropolis where people live in isolation from their neighbors.

Much of the blame lies in our failure to educate the villagers that these people are enemies of Islam and Pakistan.

we make no apology for sending islamist terrorists and their enablers to hell.

That's the whole debate. It's expedient to dismiss these poor villagers as complicit "enablers", but I am afraid I don't buy that at all.


Here's a beautiful video I found on another thread. I like it because it is equally critical of the TTP, the Pak Army and the US drone attacks.

It reminds us what our fight is all about. It's for our people. All of them. Even the ones, especially the ones, who are caught up in the crossfire.

 

[muse]

It reminds us what our fight is all about. It's for our people. All of them. Even the ones, especially the ones, who are caught up in the crossfire.

Yes, of course there is no debate about that, in real life, solutions are not as clean as we may wish and in any war in all wars there is collateral damage - you can feel superior because we do not have a way to avoid collateral damage, but know that we have tried to minimize it. You seem to have lost your ,oral compass and fall back in the Pakistani game of equations, the Talib is the equal of the Army now, but you are mistaken, the focus should be on the Talib and Al-Qaeeda who are responsible for this in the first place.

 

[Developereo]

Yes, of course there is no debate about that, in real life, solutions are not as clean as we may wish and in any war in all wars there is collateral damage - you can feel superior because we do not have a way to avoid collateral damage, but know that we have tried to minimize it. You seem to have lost your ,oral compass and fall back in the Pakistani game of equations, the Talib is the equal of the Army now, but you are mistaken, the focus should be on the Talib and Al-Qaeeda who are responsible for this in the first place.

Of course I am not equating the Pak army with TTP. Not even close.

The Pak Army operation in Swat was actually a good model: evacuate the civilians first, and then go after the bad guys.

We should try to follow that model in other places.

 

[Nomad]

In my opinion, its not the drone attacks which have caused so much damage to the islamists, infact they were doomed when they opened the gates of war with the muslim coutries govts. who previously had soft corner for them and who considered them as their first line of defence.

It is precisely this kind of thinking that is the cause of the problem. So let me get this right, if they had not attacked the "muslim countries govts" there would have been no problems. So as long as they attack non muslim countries your "soft corner" (ahem sancutrary) is OK .

things would not trun good for these guirellas unless untill they renounce violence against the govts of muslim countries and keep their words not to attack muslims govts or civillians everafter.

otherwise they would surely be inihialated sooner or later.

So if tomorrow they promise not to attack the "govts of muslim countries" its back to the "soft corner" and business as usual. That is called appeasement, and why don't you check and see how many times the GOP tried it in the last few years, and how successful it was.

USA, Isreal, India and Russia are just trying to capitalize on this opportunity and weaken both govts of islamic countries and islamist groups.

its a 200 years old tactics of divide and rule of the britishers...

Do you think the "govts non muslim countries" are just going to sit around and not do anything when attacked by the islamists you have a soft corner for? What you are seeing today with the drone attacks and all the bombs going of in Pakistan is the result of decades of this kind of warped thinking. As long as India was on the receiving end of your friendly islamist in your proxy wars, we did not care. Unfortunately that is not the situation today. The days of harboring these nuts to fight your proxy wars are comming to an end.

Instead of accusing the US for everything, maybe its time to pray that we suceed, because if we don't your country may not ever be the Pakistan that you grew up in.