Gandhi G in da house
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Thank You India
- Thread starter Windjammer
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Windjammer
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Last Hope
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I agree with the casualties we faced.
But Indian Army did the coward act on firing us from back after we were withdrawing. If we were positioned there, you would still have waited for US pressure. And you wouldn't have dared come towards us. But then, when we were going back, you saw the sign and jumped forward, to claim victory and cowardly killed those brave officers and soldiers from back.
Something to proud of, right?
But Indian Army did the coward act on firing us from back after we were withdrawing. If we were positioned there, you would still have waited for US pressure. And you wouldn't have dared come towards us. But then, when we were going back, you saw the sign and jumped forward, to claim victory and cowardly killed those brave officers and soldiers from back.
Something to proud of, right?
Last Hope
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After the Washington accord of 4 July 1999, between President Clinton and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif the possibility of a major conflict in South Asia between India and Pakistan had been avoided. The process of de-escalation had begun. Gradually the Mujahideen started withdrawing from their tactically strong positions astride the heights overlooking IndiaÕs strategic military road supplying her troops in Kargil, Siachin and Leh. The guns started to fall silent and the civilian population returned to their destroyed homes.
But, what remained and could not be erased was IndiaÕs shame and utter discomfiture which could not be logically explained to their public. There was India, a large and powerful country on its way to dominating and controlling South Asia and beyond by force of arms with some support and nods from the West, was unable to eject a few hundred Mujahideen, the Kashmiri freedom fighters from the heights of Kargil inspite of moving a disproportionately large number of troops, guns and fighter aircraft to the area. In repeated attacks India was losing officers and men killed and wounded with hardly any gains to show for the heavy losses. This went on day after day forcing an Indian Colonel in Kargil to remark that Òwe are dying like dogs hereÓ.
To save her standing at home and abroad, in the short time available before her troops were forced to withdraw from their illegal occupation of the Siachin Glacier area, India rushed out for help and appealed to the United States and other countries of the G-8 to come to her aid. It is no secret that she was bailed out by the United States. The G-8 countries were, however, not very specific in their remarks. Having shamelessly pleaded for foreign assistance to help her in Kargil and when it was received and worked in her favour, India, conforming to the role of a cheap local bully, wished to show an aggressive stance in her behaviour towards Pakistan and with regard to Kashmir.
This was done with specific objectives, firstly to raise the sagging morale of her troops, second to show their public that Indian forces had gained a victory in Kargil and third to take advantage of the Kargil episode in the forthcoming general elections in India. The result of this policy was renewed firing across the Line of Control and greater suppression within Indian-held Kashmir. This new Indian aggressive stance travelled from Kargil to the coastal area of the Rann of Kutch where it resulted in the most shameful act perpetuated by IndiaÕs Armed Forces in utter violation of International Law and norms of civilized behaviour attributed to elected governments. Indian Air Force fighter aircraft shot down an unarmed Pakistan Naval aircraft with the loss of 16 lives and total destruction of the aircraft.
After having shot down the unarmed Pakistan Naval plane at about 11 a.m. on 10 August 1999 IndiaÕs actions thereafter were also not honourable and certainly unworthy of the largest democracy in the world. India first announced that the Pakistan Navy aircraft had violated Indian airspace, therefore, it was shot down. India sent in two helicopters to pick up some pieces of the wreckage which were proudly photographed with their Prime Minister outside his office in New Delhi. These were later flashed to the world in an attempt to prove that the plane was shot inside Indian territory.
The Indian Defence Minister, Mr. George Fernandes, in an attempt to justify this unprovoked action made a totally incomprehensible statement, that the Pakistan Naval plane had made a hostile gesture by turning towards the two Indian fighters in a bid to ram them. He wanted the world to believe that a large unarmed propeller driven aircraft could turn towards the faster and armed jet fighters. Surprisingly the same statement was repeated by IndiaÕs High Commissioner (Ambassador) in London while talking to the BBC. The most absurd and irresponsible statement was given by IndiaÕs Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal A. Y. Tipnis, who had rushed to the Indian Naliya Air Base, from where the MiG-21 fighters had taken off to shoot the Pakistan Naval plane. Tipnis told reporters that the Pakistani plane Òhad been on an information gathering mission for a possible waterborne incursion. It was a planned mission to collect ground information. One possibility is that if there were an offensive planned ... the plane might have been spotting for creeks to use, to send in waterborne intrudersÓ. Inspite of all these combined lies India had eventually to admit that the plane was shot down inside Pakistan air space. She did so without batting an eyelid or a word of apology. Perhaps because the Western WorldÕs reaction to IndiaÕs blatant act of aggression was somewhat mild. Instead of blaming India it cautioned both sides. The International Herald Tribune in its editorial on 14-15 August referred to it as Òthe new Indian-Pakistani aerial bumps of the borderÓ. Justice in International Law and Morality may often depend on commercial and other interests and beliefs.
Pakistan NavyÕs French-built Breguet Atlantic airplane had been flying in the area at an altitude of about 7,000 feet for nearly two hours on a training mission. It was clearly visible on the Indian radar screens as a large aircraft during that period. It had an endurance of four hours and would be in its training area for another two hours. It is the opinion of some military experts at home and abroad that the decision to shoot down the unarmed propeller driven slow aircraft within Pakistan territory was finally cleared and authorised by the Indian government in New Delhi. It was an act of infamy which should have been condemned in the strongest terms by the world community.
In accordance with the 1991 Indo-Pakistan air agreement no military aircraft were to fly within 9 kilometers of the international border. But if any aircraft unwittingly strayed across the border, it was to be warned and a complaint lodged with the government and service HQ of the other side. There was no provision for shooting down the aircraft even when it crossed the international border. To do so when the aircraft was within its own airspace, though within the 9 km area of the border, was not justified under any bilateral or international law, India is surely aware of it.
What would happen, I asked a senior officer during my recent trip to Islamabad and Rawalpindi, if a Pakistani submarine was to sink a surface ship of the Indian Navy during their training cruise in the Arabian Sea, pick up some floating debris and claim that the ship was sunk in PakistanÕs territorial waters after it was warned but showed aggressive intent. Later on the truth would emerge but the ship would have been sunk and a clear message sent across the border. There was no comment from the officer except that Pakistan did not wish to escalate the situation any further and instructions had been issued for military aircraft to stay 10 kilometers from the international border.
A good decision which every right thinking person will no doubt applaud. But what is the mood in New Delhi, do they still wish to retrieve their honour further or return to the conference table for a meaningful dialogue to solve all outstanding problems, as the United States President is now urging them to do. India must understand that the problem of Jammu and Kashmir state is the core issue of discontent between the two countries and it must be solved for peace to return to South Asia. It is a disputed territory, recognised as such by the world community and the United Nations.
It is no point India claiming that the state is an integral part of India. The people of Indian-occupied Kashmir have shown by their sacrifices and their 11-year old uprising that they refuse to acknowledge IndiaÕs claim and wish to exercise their right to decide which of the two countries to join - India or Pakistan. A right that is being consistently denied to them. They are held down by force of arms. India has 730,000 army and para-military troops in Kashmir who are using harsh and brutal methods to suppress the people. The only answer is a peaceful settlement in accordance with the wishes of the people of Jammu and Kashmir who have been suffering for the last 52 years.
PATRON Lt Gen (Retd) SARDAR FS LODI gives an overview of IndiaÕs shameful behaviour in the recent episodes in Kargil and Kutch
But, what remained and could not be erased was IndiaÕs shame and utter discomfiture which could not be logically explained to their public. There was India, a large and powerful country on its way to dominating and controlling South Asia and beyond by force of arms with some support and nods from the West, was unable to eject a few hundred Mujahideen, the Kashmiri freedom fighters from the heights of Kargil inspite of moving a disproportionately large number of troops, guns and fighter aircraft to the area. In repeated attacks India was losing officers and men killed and wounded with hardly any gains to show for the heavy losses. This went on day after day forcing an Indian Colonel in Kargil to remark that Òwe are dying like dogs hereÓ.
To save her standing at home and abroad, in the short time available before her troops were forced to withdraw from their illegal occupation of the Siachin Glacier area, India rushed out for help and appealed to the United States and other countries of the G-8 to come to her aid. It is no secret that she was bailed out by the United States. The G-8 countries were, however, not very specific in their remarks. Having shamelessly pleaded for foreign assistance to help her in Kargil and when it was received and worked in her favour, India, conforming to the role of a cheap local bully, wished to show an aggressive stance in her behaviour towards Pakistan and with regard to Kashmir.
This was done with specific objectives, firstly to raise the sagging morale of her troops, second to show their public that Indian forces had gained a victory in Kargil and third to take advantage of the Kargil episode in the forthcoming general elections in India. The result of this policy was renewed firing across the Line of Control and greater suppression within Indian-held Kashmir. This new Indian aggressive stance travelled from Kargil to the coastal area of the Rann of Kutch where it resulted in the most shameful act perpetuated by IndiaÕs Armed Forces in utter violation of International Law and norms of civilized behaviour attributed to elected governments. Indian Air Force fighter aircraft shot down an unarmed Pakistan Naval aircraft with the loss of 16 lives and total destruction of the aircraft.
After having shot down the unarmed Pakistan Naval plane at about 11 a.m. on 10 August 1999 IndiaÕs actions thereafter were also not honourable and certainly unworthy of the largest democracy in the world. India first announced that the Pakistan Navy aircraft had violated Indian airspace, therefore, it was shot down. India sent in two helicopters to pick up some pieces of the wreckage which were proudly photographed with their Prime Minister outside his office in New Delhi. These were later flashed to the world in an attempt to prove that the plane was shot inside Indian territory.
The Indian Defence Minister, Mr. George Fernandes, in an attempt to justify this unprovoked action made a totally incomprehensible statement, that the Pakistan Naval plane had made a hostile gesture by turning towards the two Indian fighters in a bid to ram them. He wanted the world to believe that a large unarmed propeller driven aircraft could turn towards the faster and armed jet fighters. Surprisingly the same statement was repeated by IndiaÕs High Commissioner (Ambassador) in London while talking to the BBC. The most absurd and irresponsible statement was given by IndiaÕs Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal A. Y. Tipnis, who had rushed to the Indian Naliya Air Base, from where the MiG-21 fighters had taken off to shoot the Pakistan Naval plane. Tipnis told reporters that the Pakistani plane Òhad been on an information gathering mission for a possible waterborne incursion. It was a planned mission to collect ground information. One possibility is that if there were an offensive planned ... the plane might have been spotting for creeks to use, to send in waterborne intrudersÓ. Inspite of all these combined lies India had eventually to admit that the plane was shot down inside Pakistan air space. She did so without batting an eyelid or a word of apology. Perhaps because the Western WorldÕs reaction to IndiaÕs blatant act of aggression was somewhat mild. Instead of blaming India it cautioned both sides. The International Herald Tribune in its editorial on 14-15 August referred to it as Òthe new Indian-Pakistani aerial bumps of the borderÓ. Justice in International Law and Morality may often depend on commercial and other interests and beliefs.
Pakistan NavyÕs French-built Breguet Atlantic airplane had been flying in the area at an altitude of about 7,000 feet for nearly two hours on a training mission. It was clearly visible on the Indian radar screens as a large aircraft during that period. It had an endurance of four hours and would be in its training area for another two hours. It is the opinion of some military experts at home and abroad that the decision to shoot down the unarmed propeller driven slow aircraft within Pakistan territory was finally cleared and authorised by the Indian government in New Delhi. It was an act of infamy which should have been condemned in the strongest terms by the world community.
In accordance with the 1991 Indo-Pakistan air agreement no military aircraft were to fly within 9 kilometers of the international border. But if any aircraft unwittingly strayed across the border, it was to be warned and a complaint lodged with the government and service HQ of the other side. There was no provision for shooting down the aircraft even when it crossed the international border. To do so when the aircraft was within its own airspace, though within the 9 km area of the border, was not justified under any bilateral or international law, India is surely aware of it.
What would happen, I asked a senior officer during my recent trip to Islamabad and Rawalpindi, if a Pakistani submarine was to sink a surface ship of the Indian Navy during their training cruise in the Arabian Sea, pick up some floating debris and claim that the ship was sunk in PakistanÕs territorial waters after it was warned but showed aggressive intent. Later on the truth would emerge but the ship would have been sunk and a clear message sent across the border. There was no comment from the officer except that Pakistan did not wish to escalate the situation any further and instructions had been issued for military aircraft to stay 10 kilometers from the international border.
A good decision which every right thinking person will no doubt applaud. But what is the mood in New Delhi, do they still wish to retrieve their honour further or return to the conference table for a meaningful dialogue to solve all outstanding problems, as the United States President is now urging them to do. India must understand that the problem of Jammu and Kashmir state is the core issue of discontent between the two countries and it must be solved for peace to return to South Asia. It is a disputed territory, recognised as such by the world community and the United Nations.
It is no point India claiming that the state is an integral part of India. The people of Indian-occupied Kashmir have shown by their sacrifices and their 11-year old uprising that they refuse to acknowledge IndiaÕs claim and wish to exercise their right to decide which of the two countries to join - India or Pakistan. A right that is being consistently denied to them. They are held down by force of arms. India has 730,000 army and para-military troops in Kashmir who are using harsh and brutal methods to suppress the people. The only answer is a peaceful settlement in accordance with the wishes of the people of Jammu and Kashmir who have been suffering for the last 52 years.
PATRON Lt Gen (Retd) SARDAR FS LODI gives an overview of IndiaÕs shameful behaviour in the recent episodes in Kargil and Kutch
Music to ears... air field positions are leaked.
From tommorow drones,fighters and missiles after missiles will be showering on Indian posts.
India is doomed.
many a true word spoken in jest
You encourage a troll and say i dont have the stomach for it? Im trying to stop our incredibly popular site from being polluted and i havent got the stomach for it? I expect better from you young man. By joining in the trolling it doesnt help. Either on topic or off topic - choice is yours...
RoYaL~GuJJaR
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Thank you @Indian members...
"Owned"
"Owned"
Nalwa
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Yep - Thats confirmed that. Your pic says it all - you are clearly correct a wealth of knowledge. Because Nawaz is standing next to Clinton it clearly means you were right....
Google Nawaz + Clinton + Kargil and you can see for yourself. And let us be clear here, are you denying that Nawaz ever rushed to see Clinton at the peak of the Kargil conflict? A case of amnesia, is it?
Either start another thread or stop being off topic here.
nForce
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I don't get this.Over 7 pages of discussion, about what??
India released some co -ordinates of forward bases.. and the Pakistanis bought it?
Is it that easy to fool the Pakistanis?
some one bought it of course,hence he started this thread thanking the Indians
Cmon now.....
India released some co -ordinates of forward bases.. and the Pakistanis bought it?
Is it that easy to fool the Pakistanis?
some one bought it of course,hence he started this thread thanking the Indians
Cmon now.....
MilSpec
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Hey windy, Doesn't your best friend provide satellite imagery to you guys.. what exactly are you excited about???
tallboy123
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Can't the helipads and army camp be changed or they are permanent???
If this disclosure is true then they will be moved if army people are wise enough...
And for all happy people,in 2008 a israelic spy sat was launched called Risat,which cover pakistan and china in a detailed manner...
If this disclosure is true then they will be moved if army people are wise enough...
And for all happy people,in 2008 a israelic spy sat was launched called Risat,which cover pakistan and china in a detailed manner...
Dalai Lama
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To set things straight, as in who started trolling:
- Refer to the changed title of the article. (Against the "rules" I thought)
- Ctrl+F on page 3 and type in "kargil". You'll see who's been quoted by shuntmaster.
Yup, no surprises there.
- Refer to the changed title of the article. (Against the "rules" I thought)
- Ctrl+F on page 3 and type in "kargil". You'll see who's been quoted by shuntmaster.
Yup, no surprises there.
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