TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[UKBengali]

I'm only suggesting it as a temporary measure until TEI makes a national engine.

Not possible to use F110 as otherwise the TF-X would be a huge fighter as large as F-22.

UK's EJ-2000 is an excellent engine as the base version already has over 9:1 T/W ratio and the design allows 30% increase on this. Imagine a TF-X with two EJ-2000X producing 117kN of thrust each!

 

[LegionnairE]

Not possible to use F110 as otherwise the TF-X would be a huge fighter as large as F-22.

UK's EJ-2000 is an excellent engine as the base version already has over 9:1 T/W ratio and the design allows 30% increase on this. Imagine a TF-X with two EJ-2000X producing 117kN of thrust each!

F22 size is okay to me. Can't make it too small in this day and age with internal weapons bays anyway.

 

[UKBengali]

F22 size is okay to me. Can't make it too small in this day and age with internal weapons bays anyway.

I thought the weight of the TF-X was already decided and Turkey is going for a medium size fighter?

 

[LegionnairE]

I thought the weight of the TF-X was already decided and Turkey is going for a medium size fighter?

The project isn't even on prototype level, anything is subject to change.

 

[UkroTurk]

PS.Given engine for f15 is optional GE f110 which TAI knows very well.

 

[LegionnairE]

Please keep in mind that EF Typhoon doesn't have an internal weapons bay. It would be very difficult to get the same performance if we use the same engines in a 5th generation fighter. We won't be able to make it as light and slippery. EJ200 series might become too weak by the time we're done.

Main davantage of the EJ200 seems that it's a very light engine and partially due to that they were able to keep the plane very light. This might be too optimistic for TFX.

Final design may weigh somewhere between F15 and F22.

Think about how our LHD project have changed through the years. It was meant to be an LPD but we ended up with an aircraft carrier. This project may turn out just like that.

And think about the fact that this plane will be in use well into 2050s operational needs may change and we might have to add more weight to the aircraft. Having an internal weapons bay that's designed to hold AIM120s may limit our own missile development in near future.

 

[UkroTurk]

Payload of f-22 or f-15 ;6 xAIM 120 how many million dollars cost??)

 

[Killuminati]

How funny some people come here and make a final judgment based on newtons =D

 

[UKBengali]

Please keep in mind that EF Typhoon doesn't have an internal weapons bay. It would be very difficult to get the same performance if we use the same engines in a 5th generation fighter. We won't be able to make it as light and slippery. EJ200 series might become too weak by the time we're done.

Main davantage of the EJ200 seems that it's a very light engine and partially due to that they were able to keep the plane very light. This might be too optimistic for TFX.

Final design may weigh somewhere between F15 and F22.

Think about how our LHD project have changed through the years. It was meant to be an LPD but we ended up with an aircraft carrier. This project may turn out just like that.

And think about the fact that this plane will be in use well into 2050s operational needs may change and we might have to add more weight to the aircraft. Having an internal weapons bay that's designed to hold AIM120s may limit our own missile development in near future.

https://www.tai.com.tr/urun/milli-muharip-ucak

According to official TAI website above it will have 2 x 90kN engines?


Also https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/tai-tf-x-stealth-fighter/

"A joint venture was formed by Rolls-Royce and Kale Group to provide a domestically developed engine for the TF-X fighter jet programme. The aircraft will feature two engines with a thrust rating of more than 20,000lb each"

Above looks like it will be based on the EJ-2000 core to produce a brand new engine.

 

[LegionnairE]

How funny some people come here and make a final judgment based on newtons =D

Yes how silly they are. Don't they know the final judgement belongs to Allah?

https://www.tai.com.tr/urun/milli-muharip-ucak

According to official TAI website it will have 2 x 90kN engines?

Please note that a single F135 is more powerful than that and we are already going to buy F135s in the F35 package if you will.

I'm beginning to think that the engine selection has more to do with politics than performance.
We seem to be trying to move away from american engines and aircraft.

What's strange to me is that TAI uses pounds and feet instead of the metric system.

 

[UKBengali]

Please note that a single F135 is more powerful than that and we are already going to buy F135s in the F35 package if you will.

I'm beginning to think that the engine selection has more to do with politics than performance.
We seem to be trying to move away from american engines and aircraft.

What's strange to me is that TAI uses pounds and feet instead of the metric system.

F-135 is a giant single engine designed for the F-35. F-35 does not super-cruise and it is not a pure air-superiority fighter like the TF-X will be designed to be.

The engine selection is not just based on politics but also on performance.

The EJ-2000 is the most advanced engine in it's class. It has T/W ratio of 9.2:1 and this can be increased by 30%.
The US F414 has a T/W ratio of 9.1:1 but this can only be increased by 20%.
What it looks like to me is that the EJ-2000 core will be maximised to the highest potential and then you will have a new engine with a crazy 12:1 T/W ratio. With two of these, a TF-X that is even as large in size in-between a Eurofighter and F-22 can supercruise at a high Mach 1 number. This will allow an aircraft of this size to also have the range to cover the distances that the TF-X will need to fight effectively over and around Turkish airspace.

The political aspect has to do with the fact that Turkey wants to become independent in fighter jet production and partnering with a US firm will not allow this. UK will have to treat Turkey as an equal due to the fact that Turkey is comparable in size.

 

[LegionnairE]

F-135 is a giant single engine designed for the F-35. F-35 does not super-cruise and it is not a pure air-superiority fighter like the TF-X will be designed to be.

The engine selection is not just based on politics but also on performance.

The EJ-2000 is the most advanced engine in it's class. It has T/W ratio of 9.2:1 and this can be increased by 30%.
The US F414 has a T/W ratio of 9.1:1 but this can only be increased by 20%.
What it looks like to me is that the EJ-2000 core will be maximised to the highest potential and then you will have a new engine with a crazy 12:1 T/W ratio. With two of these, a TF-X that is even as large in size in-between a Eurofighter and F-22 can supercruise at a high Mach 1 number. This will allow an aircraft of this size to also have the range to cover the distances that the TF-X will need to fight effectively over and around Turkish airspace.

The political aspect has to do with the fact that Turkey wants to become independent in fighter jet production and partnering with a US firm will not allow this. UK will have to treat Turkey as an equal due to the fact that Turkey is comparable in size.

Yeah but TAI's website doesn't say 26.000 lbf it says 20.000
And I don't think the relative slim design that would be reached by using the EJ200 is worth establishing a new supply line. There are better rifles than M4, much better like scar, tavor, etc. But the US keeps the M4 because it's not worth making the change. Same goes with this. Just because it's slightly better doesn't mean it's worth it.

I said this a million times and frankly I'm bored at this point.

I think we're going to regret picking this engine the same way we regretted the 2.0 diesel engine that was chosen for Anka.

And like I said before, EF Typhoon isn't indicative of how TFX is going to preform. Having an internal weapons bay changes things a lot. It may not be able to supercruise like EF.

 

[era_shield]

I said this a million times and frankly I'm bored at this point.

What a shame. I'm sure TAI's aeronautical engineers were reading your every post. After all, aeronautical engineers love being told what to do by uneducated IT plebs. Better go back to the OliveBranch thread and pretend to tell TSK generals how to do their job there. I'm sure they've paused the operation waiting for your next post.

 

[LegionnairE]

What a shame. I'm sure TAI's aeronautical engineers were reading your every post. After all, aeronautical engineers love being told what to do by uneducated IT plebs. Better go back to the OliveBranch thread and pretend to tell TSK generals how to do their job there. I'm sure they've paused the operation waiting for your next post.

I'll make sure to take an example from you and write down butthurt cynical ramblings instead.

 

[OguzSenturk]

Speed may be related directly with engine, but lift comes from wings. Even tho lenght of MMU is nearly identicial with F-22, wing area is significantly smaller, this will give less lift, or lower maximum altitute than F-22, but will also give more speed. TAI obviously doesn't want F-22. They are building a stealth fighter jet as long as F-22, but with smaller wings and weaker engines. TAI aims to get mach 2.0 which is pretty good.