Taking over Pakistan controlled Kashmir is war with China and Pakistan

[Raj-Hindustani]

Yes Pakistan did gain territory according to what I read. More than it surrendered. It was part of the agreement.

Pakistan did gain around 1942 KM..... and handed over 5,300 km2

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/235494934.pdf

 

[SIPRA]

Yeah probably

I am just clarifying it for the purpose that don't be a prey to Indian propaganda. It is their malafide proposition that Pakistan "handed over" Shaksgam Valley, as if Pakistan had any administrative jurisdiction over it. They do it to support their utterly baseless claim in Aksai Chin. That was also a desolate area, with absolutely no Indian presence or jurisdiction, which was filled by China, peacefully, from 1950 to 1958, because they deemed it their's.

 

[etylo]

Pakistan surrendered approximately 5,300 km2 ..... unsure, how much Pakistan got from China. The land was actually related to Mir of Hunza.

What would that role be besides maneuvering?



Yes Pakistan did gain territory according to what I read. More than it surrendered. It was part of the agreement.

China attacked and removed Indian army posts along the borders, gave an ultimatium saying China would go to war with India if it didnt back down, tried to squeeze India so that it had to consider two fronts wars and end up like 1962 war.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

China attacked and removed Indian army posts along the borders, said would go to war with India if it didnt back down, tried to squeeze India so that it had to consider two fronts wars and end up like 1962 war.

What??? what are you trying to say?

If you talking about India and china border during the last time... So now even the Chinese army and Indian army have already withdrawn from that border area.... no one gains anything and now that place is a buffer zone.....

The only change after that incident was both armies used to patrol that border area but now, no one..

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

I am just clarifying it for the purpose that don't be a prey to Indian propaganda. It is their malafide proposition that Pakistan "handed over" Shaksgam Valley, as if Pakistan had any administrative jurisdiction over it. They do it to support their utterly baseless claim in Aksai Chin. That was also a desolate area, with absolutely no Indian presence or jurisdiction, which was filled by China, peacefully, from 1950 to 1958, because they deemed it their's.

Bhai - what are you saying totally based on your Pakistan based..

But if you asked then Now even Pakistan's government claim on Ladakh. Ladakh is even not closer to your motherland and has a different culture but gave more loser parts to china.

political challenges were the main reasons to reach such an agreement with China.

1. China had an experience of war with India related to their boundary and Pakistan had tough time with India as well. By finding a common enemy, the two states could work together better and cooperate against India. According to Bhutto “An attack by India on Pakistan would no longer confine the stakes to the independence and territorial integrity of Pakistan. An attack by India on Pakistan would also involve the security and territorial integrity of the largest state in Asia” (Ibid. p, 82). Apparently he meant, the P.R. China. Thus it was advantageous for both countries to solve their border peacefully.

2. Pakistan felt that likely, the differences which were already existed with China due to the Pakistan‟s pro-West position could flare up on the boundary. The agreement reiterated that the purpose of this agreement was to ensure tranquility along the border, in order to develop friendly communication between the two countries. The fast changing security scenario of the region was posing a danger that an undemarcated border could have caused conflict as was in the Sino-Indian border problem (Hailin, 2008).

3. Pakistan had been engaged with India primarily of the Kashmir question which was resulted into war and hostilities. By going closer to China for the boundary issue, Pakistan was trying to get concessions from India on Kashmir, by using the China card. It was evident from the Indian protests regarding the Sino-Pakistan boundary negotiations. Pakistan was of the hope that China could support her position on Kashmir issue, that latter proved. “The veteran Kashmir leader, Ghulam Abbas, proclaimed China the only dependable friend and ally of Pakistan, and one whose friendship could be of great value in liberating Kashmir from Indian occupation (Dobell, 1964).

4. It was also Pakistan‟s effort to persuade the United States to pressure India for the solution of the Kashmir problem. It was a signal for the US that if she had failed, Pakistan had another option for the problem‟s solution that was China.

5. China had already resolved her boundary issues peacefully with its neighbors, like Burma and Nepal. China was interested to present itself as a peace-loving country by resolving the same issue with Pakistan. Pakistan too was looking seriously the Chinese developments with its neighbors and was concluded that a peaceful solution of the boundary was likely to take place.

6. Over the United States‟ giving assistance to India in the Sino-Indian border war of 1962, Pakistan was understandably unhappy over these overtures. Although the US had declared that the aid was primarily for the purpose to contain China, but Pakistan seemed it a more powerful India threatening its sovereignty. Bhutto expressed its anxiety that the weapons given to India by the US would be used against Pakistan as India had already solved five of its disputes by the use of force. In 1963, the Indian President once said in the US: “India will be able to settle the problem only by having strength with which to back her bargaining power” (Ibid. p. 8).

7. In November 1962, with the help of United States and United Kingdom, Pakistan and India agreed to resume their talks. “The idea was to induce Pakistan gradually to turn in the opposite direction by insisting on Indo-Pakistan co-operation instead of a rupture of Pakistan‟s relations with China” (Bhutto, 1965). Realizing the situation back of the International Journal of Social Science Studies Vol. 4, No. 2; 2016 4 1959 proposal of India and Pakistan for a joint defense of the subcontinent, China worried of these talks which might bring the same dilemma for it. When the talks reached to a stalemate, Pakistan also realized that it was merely Western attempt to make a room for sympathy in Pakistan and tone down the latter‟s criticism of the Western aid to India. It was beneficial for China to engage itself with Pakistan for border talks to neutralize the joint Indo-Pakistan development and minimize the outside powers‟ influence in the region.

8. As Pakistan readjusted its policy of balance between the West and the Communist blocs, in 1961, Pakistan was agreed to get the Soviet assistance in the shape of agreement for exploration of its oil resources. China was worried about this Soviet‟s offer. Later, the victory of China over India in its war proved for Pakistan that China was better option than the Soviet Union to approach for sustained warm relations.

9. The boundary agreement gave recognition to Pakistan‟s control over Azad Kashmir from a regional power against the Indian charges. It was also mentioned in the agreement that the final boundary would be redrawing in future when the Kashmir dispute solved. It means that Pakistan was successful to denounce the Indian claim over Kashmir and projected it as a disputed territory between itself and India, as Pakistan was demanding the disputed position of Kashmir in the United Nations, illegally occupied by India. On May 31, 1962China told to the Indian Embassy in Beijing by Note that it had never recognized the Indian claim over Kashmir as her sovereign territory without reservation (Ambekar and Divekar, 1964).

10. The Xinjiang problem has always been a trouble for Beijing Regime and fostered by the Soviets since the early 1960s. The Sino-Pakistan boundary touches Xinjiang with the Northern Areas of Pakistan. It was in interest of Beijing to conclude a boundary agreement with Pakistan as early as possible for the stability of its area, as a Muslim Pakistan has had a natural religious and cultural bond with the people of Xinjiang. It should be noted that Pakistan signed a civil aviation agreement with China in August 1963. Under this agreement, Pakistani planes were allowed to land in Canton and Shanghai and Pakistan gave permission to Chinese jets for use of the Dacca airport. The United States Government was not happy over this development. The US State Department expressed that this agreement was “an unfortunate breach of the free world solidarity and postponed, subsequently, the granting of a loan of $4.3 million for further improvements of the Dacca airport” (Lerski, 1968). An interesting fact is that, the United States never challenged the Indian bilateralism with the US and USSR (Ibid.).

 

[Areesh]

Pakistan surrendered approximately 5,300 km2 ..... unsure, how much Pakistan got from China. The land was actually related to Mir of Hunza.

Famous Indian lie to defend it's occupation of Kashmir

Pakistan accepted Chinese claim on a piece of land it never controlled

China accepted Pakistani claim on a piece of land that China actually controlled and handed it over to Pakistan

This is the reality of lie that indians parrot about that agreement

handed it over like good little slaves more like, but the Chinese paid well for it.

Again. Famous Indian lie

Reality is Pakistan got land it never controlled and accepted Chinese claim on land which it never had in the first place

Modi ki g@nd sai sar nikalo to tujhai kuch pata chalai

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Famous Indian lie to defend it's occupation of Kashmir

Pakistan accepted Chinese claim on a piece of land it never controlled

China accepted Pakistani claim on a piece of land that China actually controlled and handed it over to Pakistan

This is the reality of lie that indians parrot about that agreement

Can you please explain when did Pakistan control on Jammu and ladakh?

Pakistan handed over 5200 KM for just approx 1900 KM because there were many political challenges and also, to avoid any border clash with China.

Also, regarding the withdrawal of the claim from the Chinese part. Before the agreement, Pakistan also used to claim as it is part of jammu and Kashmir and even UN resolution get applied.

This is full of lies that UN resolution only gets applied to Indian-held Kashmir.... Actually, it gets applied on Indian Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan Kashmir & GB and Chinese Aksai chin............... This is also one of the reasons now UN resolution is null and can not be implemented. All three countries will never be agreed.

 

[Areesh]

Can you please explain when did Pakistan control on Jammu and ladakh?

Pakistan handed over 5200 KM for just approx 1900 KM because there were many political challenges and also, to avoid any border clash with China.

Also, regarding the withdrawal of the claim from the Chinese part. Before the agreement, Pakistan also used to claim as it is part of jammu and Kashmir and even UN resolution get applied.

This is full of lies that UN resolution only gets applied to Indian-held Kashmir.... Actually, it gets applied on Indian Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan Kashmir & GB and Chinese Aksai chin............... This is also one of the reasons now UN resolution is null and can not be implemented. All three countries will never be agreed.

Again

Pakistan didn't hand over anything that it controlled to anyone

It simply accepted China's claim on the land it already controlled unlike India who gave up land to China till today

There is a big difference in what you Indians say and the reality

 

[Thepathtoheaven]

The Indian army doesn't have the guts to confront Pakistan or China full on.They are nothing but paper tigers.A very small level conflict with the Chinese army in 2020 had fully exposed them.One can only imagine what will happen if the Indian army fights a full scale war with the mighty PLA.The whole country will fall within a week.

 

[Tornado23]

The Indian army doesn't have the guts to confront Pakistan or China full on.They are nothing but paper tigers.A very small level conflict with the Chinese army in 2020 had fully exposed them.One can only imagine what will happen if the Indian army fights a full scale war with the mighty PLA.The whole country will fall within a week.

Underestimating the enemy is a good way to suffer a crushing defeat.

Don't be so arrogant. Over estimate them. Never underestimate

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

The Indian army doesn't have the guts to confront Pakistan or China full on.They are nothing but paper tigers.A very small level conflict with the Chinese army in 2020 had fully exposed them.One can only imagine what will happen if the Indian army fights a full scale war with the mighty PLA.The whole country will fall within a week.

During the border incidents, Pakistan army people were killed by the Afghan Taliban... It does mean Afghanistan can beat Pakistan?

Recent such small incidents are nothing when comes to full flesh war...

Again

Pakistan didn't hand over anything that it controlled to anyone

It simply accepted China's claim on the land it already controlled unlike India who gave up land to China till today

There is a big difference in what you Indians say and the reality

What do you mean, Controlled? It does mean that the Chinese already occupied that Pakistan's parts before the agreement?

yes, our kashmir land we lost to the Chinese. nothing to hide and it is the most reason we do not have a good relationship.

If you read the history then you will find that it was never controlled by Chinese. Only Kashmiri rulers were used to control it.

 

[SIPRA]

Don't be so arrogant. Over estimate them. Never underestimate

Iss poster nay tau Indian army ko bilkul he "taka-tokri" aur "phuddu mehakma" samajh liya hae.

 

[villageidiot]

But it is also fact that china will never fight for Pakistan.. You need to ask to yourself, why would any country will fight a war for any other country and risk own people lifes

Because it has happened since the dawn of time? That's most of history? Let's no go back too much. Take WW1 and WW2. That's what it was, no? Otherwise, why did russians fight for the serbs and the germans for the austro-hungarians.

Maybe this isn't your strong point so I'll put it another way.
Russians weren't fighting for the serbians' interest nor the germans for the austro-hungarians' interests. They were each fighting for their own interest i.e. their geopolitical standing.
Same with china.

Now you can argue if Pakistan is important enough for china to intervene or not. But don't come out with genius statements like this

and that also, if you are going to fight a nuclear state and their missiles can reach you cities.

I guess they forgot your nukes when they came to whupp your ***.

 

[Titanium100]

Where is @beijingwalker

We can make an alligance you provide latest weaponry of all systems and in return I give my oath to go in.. Or let me put it this way I will give my words to dive into India like diving into a swimmingpool..

China doesn't need to fight India but equip me I will go inside India in a heartbeat... Voluntarily

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Because it has happened since the dawn of time? That's most of history? Let's no go back too much. Take WW1 and WW2. That's what it was, no? Otherwise, why did russians fight for the serbs and the germans for the austro-hungarians.

Maybe this isn't your strong point so I'll put it another way.
Russians weren't fighting for the serbians' interest nor the germans for the austro-hungarians' interests. They were each fighting for their own interest i.e. their geopolitical standing.
Same with china.

Now you can argue if Pakistan is important enough for china to intervene or not. But don't come out with genius statements like this



I guess they forgot your nukes when they came to whupp your ***.

1st - I would say that learn from History.

2nd- We are not living in before 1950 era.

3rd- Today, the world has changed.. No one is going to fight for you even knowing the opposition is having Nuclear loaded missiles that can destroy their cities.

4th- China will support you indirectly by supplying arms and providing support thru other available recourses as many countries are doing in Ukraine-Russia WAR....... The same way few countries will be supporting India but NO Country will be directly involved for you or India.