Taiwan is more Chinese than PRC China?

[northeast]

You mean the entire Qing empire beat Russians when they have to deploy their troops across Siberian plain without railroad? You do realize that PRC beat a UN coalition force in Korean Peninsula right?

Well，Who knows what would happened if Qing was close to Europe.I believe manchus would did much better than what ottomans have done.They were so eager to learn new technology before they got drown in the peace and they were so powerful and fearless that they conquered the whole mongol hordes that no other chinese dynasty were able to do.

 

[tranquilium]

Well，Who knows what would happened if Qing was close to Europe.I believe manchus would did much better than what ottomans have done.They were so eager to learn new technology before they got drown in the peace and they were so powerful and fearless that they conquered the whole mongol hordes that no other chinese dynasty were able to do.

While it is true that Qing did conquer the Mongolians, it really didn't establish firm control over them. The Mongolians, similar to Tibetans, are vassal states of Qing Empire. This means while the sovereignty of these lands and the people belonged to Qing dynasty, it did not establish firm administrative control over these regions----administrative control was actually established by PRC.
Of course, arguing Qing is powerful because "no other Chinese dynasty were able to do" is a rather absurd standard. For one thing, the Mongol's history isn't long at all. In fact, their entire race only existed for a grand total of three Chinese dynasties, the Song dynasty, which by the time the Mongols actually formed a nation, was already very old. Ming dynasty, on the other hand, managed to shatter the Mongolian nations and broke it down into small tribes. In fact, the reason Qing was able to gain sovereign over the Mongolians tribes was because Ming managed to splinter the Mongolians to such an extent that they simply could not resist.
Also, there are certainly other Chinese dynasties that extend its influence over Mongolia region. For example, Han dynasty defeated and drove out the Huns (or Xiongnu). The Tang dynasty also have protectorate reaching the Gobi desert.
The problem with Qing from the very start is the fact it is a minority race establishing dynastic control over a much larger race. In order to maintain that control, they implemented policies which discourage education and expansion of ideas. For example, the content of education and bureaucratic selection is restricted to the Four Books by Confucius. In comparison, PRC's national examination include Math, Chinese, English Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Politic, English, History, Geography and Information Technology. The bureaucratic selection today would have include extensive examination of knowledge on the appropriate post. As a result, scientific progress during Qing dynasty stagnated.
I know that due to movies and online novels, some Chinese youths are obsessed with this idea of "nomadic warrior race" and think it is a romantic concept. It is not really that surprising considering in the west there are also lots of games based on "savage barbarian warriors beating civilized, but coward farming race" (warcraft anyone?) In practice, however, nothing can be farther away from the truth. For starters, nomadic society are NOT better at war than agricultural society by a long shot. Historically, nomadic societies are really only capable of defeating agricultural ones when the latter is having severe internal problems. For example, the rise of Mongols are due to internal conflict and corruption of the Jin empire, which itself was a nomadic society that rose due to corruption and internal conflict of the Liao empire. In comparison, Mongolian tribes come and goes by the thousands during earlier reign of the Liao-Jin period and they are not worth a footnote in the history.
The reason for this is because generally speaking, wars are fundamentally fought with resources---manpower, weapons and supplies. Tactics are important but it will only take you so far. As a rule, nomadic society generally has much smaller population than their farming neighbors for the simple fact nomadic society simply doesn't have enough production to support a large population.
Weapons and armors require a certain technological level and social infrastructure, which is firmly to the advantage of agricultural society. So forget about the barbarians wearing full plate armor wielding large steel axes. Plate armor is quite difficult to make. Most nomadic society also have problem producing even basic iron tools, let alone making steel ones. One of the reasons for Mongolian ferocity is that they managed to acquire technologies from Song dynasty, which was the largest steel producer in the world at the time and also quite advanced in gun power based weapons. In fact, the weapons that cracked walls of Song dynasty's cities were Arabic in origin.
In term of supplies, nomadic societies also tend to be at significant disadvantage. Supporting an army is a very expensive effort. While powerful agricultural societies may have supplies to fought a prolonged conflict, nomadic society often have to rely on pillaging the locals just to get past the first few month. In fact, most of the nomadic incursions will be stopped after a few days due to the nomadic running out of food. In order to successful to sustain the army through pillaging, the target has to have very weak border army, almost no second line of defense, can't reinforce the existing army and have crumbling city defenses. All these conditions can only happen when there are serious internal problems. For example, Mongolian rise is due to decline of Jin empire and Ottoman rise is due to decline of Byzantine empire.

 

[terranMarine]

And remember this old Han guy, he alone saved 1/4 territory of the Qing dyansty, and where were those badass Manchurian eight banner warriors?

Who's this great Han?

 

[terranMarine]

Vietnam and Taiwan are best friends.

You make yourself look like a clown these days. You vietcongs treat them as thieves who robbed Taiping island and now you are trying to tell us the two of you are buddies.

You hope for a peaceful rise of China, then you go talk crap about being aggressive.

You blame China for your pathetic country's poverty while no other people from other countries would resort to such tactic. Though Indians often accuses China of many things they certainly don't blame China for their own pathetic state.

You treat China as the enemy yet you want China to invest money into your pathetic economy.

You Vietcongs brag about kicking China's butt yet you can't get Xisha back.

When will you start acting more mature compared to your other Vietcong buddies? Before calling the Chinese clowns first look at yourself.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Who's this great Han?

左宗棠

Anyway, we can discuss this elsewhere.

 

[Viet]

You make yourself look like a clown these days. You vietcongs treat them as thieves who robbed Taiping island and now you are trying to tell us the two of you are buddies.

You hope for a peaceful rise of China, then you go talk crap about being aggressive.
You blame China for your pathetic country's poverty while no other people from other countries would resort to such tactic. Though Indians often accuses China of many things they certainly don't blame China for their own pathetic state.
You treat China as the enemy yet you want China to invest money into your pathetic economy.
You Vietcongs brag about kicking China's butt yet you can't get Xisha back.

When will you start acting more mature compared to your other Vietcong buddies? Before calling the Chinese clowns first look at yourself.

Lol a good summary. If you put all of these puzzles together, then you will get the whole picture and probably the answer.

 

[BeyondHeretic]

lets face it taiwan is a small island run by the pre-communist chinese republicans (?) , while china itself is too big to look any good , it's like comparing israel with the united states both of which are run by jews.

 

[tranquilium]

lets face it taiwan is a small island run by the pre-communist chinese republicans (?) , while china itself is too big to look any good , it's like comparing israel with the united states both of which are run by jews.

If by Republican, you refer to the catering the rich, forget about the common people stereotype, then you are right. However, the Republican party is far more competent than Taiwan's leadership, that should be tell you something.

 

[anon45]

lets face it taiwan is a small island run by the pre-communist chinese republicans (?) , while china itself is too big to look any good , it's like comparing israel with the united states both of which are run by jews.

lol you are half right.

 

[Karasonmuno]

Sigh...the overseas ones are pretty decent, but I don't like the Taiwanese people in Taiwan. They are very arrogant people...I mean, many of them resent the U.S. but lots of them also look down on the mainland because they think it poor and ******. Half of them also have issues with Hong Kong, most of them also hate South Korea...now they hate Japan as well because of Diaoyu. I don't know which country they'd like best.

 

[XiangLong]

You are right. If Taiwan unites with China under a democratic and human system, China would become a better place. CPC just fools the people and creates tensions among its neighbors.

Vietnam and Taiwan are best friends.

Suuuuure, as if Vietnam is more democratic than China...

 

[shuttler]

Every chinese dynasties ends pretty bad，In fact，I have to say Qing ended pretty well .At least they were replaced by beiyang army which founded by qing itself，not some western colonists.

if the dynasties didnt run bad there wouldnt be the next dynasty
same applies to Qing

 

[Boisttt]

I think both are Chinese

 

[Paludism]

Well in Pakistan, we have always called China, "Chin", and Chinese, as "Chini".

If I'm not wrong Chin dynasty was a united Chinese nation. Don't know if China was ever known by any other name.

So, I suppose if Taiwan was a part of Chin dynasty then they are also Chinese.

Right?

During the Marco Polo era, China was also known as "Cathay". That's the reason for a Cathay Pacific Airlines name in Hong Kong.

 

[qinglong-china]

I think both are Chinese

you are right. Chinese mainland and Taiwan are the same language and the same race，but the thread is about who represents China。