Taimur: Pakistan's ICBM?

[Supply&Demand]

It's not like Indian missiles have failed 90% of the times, more like 10-20%. Pakistani missile tests have not failed - by chance OR of course exceptional attention to detail. Actually Indian failure rates in this day n age are an exception not the norm to be taken as a standard.

Don't compare them with American and Russian failures 3 decades back. When was the last time you heard about a high profile missile having a catastrophic failure? Indians had 2 in a row (Agni3 and the SLV).

must be an unparalleled, unmatched 'exceptional attention to detail' if Pakistan did not have a single failure in 50 yrs of missile development!

so what is the max range Pakistani missiles can hit??

2500 kms or 3500 kms or 9000 kms or 19000 kms??

pretty surprising that a country which gives so much attention to detail that it has not got a single missile launch failure,which can launch missiles to 9000 kms distance but has not launched a single rocket capable of launching a satellite at 300 kms height and that too having world's best simulators for testing!

 

[KRAIT]

It's not like Indian missiles have failed 90% of the times, more like 10-20%. Pakistani missile tests have not failed - by chance OR of course exceptional attention to detail. Actually Indian failure rates in this day n age are an exception not the norm to be taken as a standard.

Don't compare them with American and Russian failures 3 decades back. When was the last time you heard about a high profile missile having a catastrophic failure? Indians had 2 in a row (Agni3 and the SLV).

You do realize these are advance weaponry ad sometimes they fail. It doesn't matter if you conducted the test 3 decades ago or today. The test at that time was of new technology while same as test of today of new technology.

The instruments and capabilities they have, the amount of research they done and the computing power they have (simulations are being conducted on high end computers or supercomputers now reduces their failure) makes their tests less prone to failure but we did see US/USSR (Russia) failing in its advance programs. Many didn't materialize. So US and USSR argument failures 3 decades back can be applied here. US space craft exploded just after launch (they landed on moon 50 years ago) recently. Russia's MARS mission miserably failed (they sent a person back 50 years).

No matter how much careful you are, simulations you are run, tests fails especially when we talk about countries like India and Pakistan who are relatively new in this field and project of such caliber and highly advanced considering our technological level. Isn't it raises a question ? I think govt. of Pakistan doesn't tell the failure if they happen, so that the citizenry don't feel insecure or bring down their morale.

Indian missile defense is considered as top-tier missile shield but the failures did occur even when we have more technological prowess considering the achievements in developing projects like AAD, PAD, Chandrayan, PSLV etc. For India, these programs are like MARS mission of Russia in terms of difficulty.

 

[Awesome]

must be an unparalleled, unmatched 'exceptional attention to detail' if Pakistan did not have a single failure in 50 yrs of missile development!

so what is the max range Pakistani missiles can hit??

2500 kms or 3500 kms or 9000 kms or 19000 kms??

pretty surprising that a country which gives so much attention to detail that it has not got a single missile launch failure,which can launch missiles to 9000 kms distance but has not launched a single rocket capable of launching a satellite at 300 kms height and that too having world's best simulators for testing!

Pakistan only has missiles up to 2500 km range, maybe the reason we take our sweet time between tests ensures lesser failures?

I'm sure there are SOME parameters that fail otherwise you won't need to test a missile over and over as Pakistan has. However, what we are talking about are catastrophic failures... It is not mandatory that this catastrophic failure must have happened by now. Its freakin 2012... The biggest failure one expects is a missile not hitting its target, not it exploding in mid-air.

It CAN happen, but its not something extraordinary that it hasn't happened just because it happened twice with India in a row.

You do realize these are advance weaponry ad sometimes they fail. It doesn't matter if you conducted the test 3 decades ago or today. The test at that time was of new technology while same as test of today of new technology.

The instruments and capabilities they have, the amount of research they done and the computing power they have (simulations are being conducted on high end computers or supercomputers now reduces their failure) makes their tests less prone to failure but we did see US/USSR (Russia) failing in its advance programs. Many didn't materialize. So US and USSR argument failures 3 decades back can be applied here. US space craft exploded just after launch (they landed on moon 50 years ago) recently. Russia's MARS mission miserably failed (they sent a person back 50 years).

No matter how much careful you are, simulations you are run, tests fails especially when we talk about countries like India and Pakistan who are relatively new in this field and project of such caliber and highly advanced considering our technological level. Isn't it raises a question ? I think govt. of Pakistan doesn't tell the failure if they happen, so that the citizenry don't feel insecure or bring down their morale.

Indian missile defense is considered as top-tier missile shield but the failures did occur even when we have more technological prowess considering the achievements in developing projects like AAD, PAD, Chandrayan, PSLV etc. For India, these programs are like MARS mission of Russia in terms of difficulty.

I'm not giving any expert comments here, just poking holes at the logic that "Haw hai, Pakistanis haven't failed in a test yet? They must be cheating". This is no argument.

 

[Hulk]

Pakistan only has missiles up to 2500 km range, maybe the reason we take our sweet time between tests ensures lesser failures?

I'm sure there are SOME parameters that fail otherwise you won't need to test a missile over and over as Pakistan has. However, what we are talking about are catastrophic failures... It is not mandatory that this catastrophic failure must have happened by now. Its freakin 2012... The biggest failure one expects is a missile not hitting its target, not it exploding in mid-air.

It CAN happen, but its not something extraordinary that it hasn't happened just because it happened twice with India in a row.



I'm not giving any expert comments here, just poking holes at the logic that "Haw hai, Pakistanis haven't failed in a test yet? They must be cheating". This is no argument.

Pakistan has a philosophy that all development test are part of development and not failures, hence they do not report any failed test. This makes some people believe that there are no failures.

Pakistan has only modified little bit the missiles they got from NK and China.

The only drive to extend the range to 3500 never worked. Forget about ICBM.

 

[Icarus]

Pakistan has a philosophy that all development test are part of development and not failures, hence they do not report any failed test. This makes some people believe that there are no failures.

I am inclined to agree with that statement.

Pakistan has only modified little bit the missiles they got from NK and China.

Bullshit, kindly quote the Korean or Chinese Counterparts of Pakistani missiles rather than just repost some troll's assertions.

The only drive to extend the range to 3500 never worked. Forget about ICBM.

It is widely known that a missile by the name of Taimur with 4500km range is in advanced stages of development. The reason Pakistan does not invest in ICBMs is because we have no aggressive ambitions, our sole reason behind missile development is to act as a safeguard against India and a missile with 3500km range fulfils that objective as it is.

 

[notorious_eagle]

must be an unparalleled, unmatched 'exceptional attention to detail' if Pakistan did not have a single failure in 50 yrs of missile development!

Pakistan has had missile test failures, you just don't hear about it on the news . As Icarus stated, missiles are tested in front of the cameras after they have been perfected and all the defects corrected.

we will know later if it works.

Do you really want to find that out in a war. You might think this way but your General Staff is certainly not taking any chances.

On this aspect DRDO is far ahead, they have tested every missile multiple times.

Don't you guys read the news, in this year alone we have had several tests conducted by the Strategic Command.

 

[Hyperion]

Pakistan has only modified little bit the missiles they got from NK and China.

The only drive to extend the range to 3500 never worked. Forget about ICBM.

Ofcourse you are right. We are all "Unparh / Jahil / Gawar/ Ullo kay Pathay", who don't know anything about Physics, Metallurgy, Fluid Mechanics, Thermodynamics etc etc....

Oh, I forgot, we still do wipe our arses with tree leaves. Happy now? Good... it's my wish to inflate your ego!

 

[Icarus]

Ofcourse you are right. We are all "Unparh / Jahil / Gawar/ Ullo kay Pathay", who don't know anything about Physics, Metallurgy, Fluid Mechanics, Thermodynamics etc etc....

Oh, I forgot, we still do wipe our arses with tree leaves. Happy now? Good... it's my wish to inflate your ego!

You forgot to mention that we still buy those missile by bartering our livestock for them.........

 

[v9s]

For those saying we never have failures, we DO, but you just never hear about them.

Hell, our 1st missiles (hatf 1 or abdali 1) were complete failures, and we only got to know about them after the CIA declassified documents on our earliest missile tests a year or two back (look 'em up on the net).

Remember the frenzy on the modified harpoons a few years back? Rumors are that we tested the Babur SLCM, which was a failure (according to a member here).

 

[karan21]

Can anyone tell me any rocket motors or engines developed by Pakistan which are capable for an ICBM?? For example India in 1990 wanted to quickly develop an ICBM called surya by using the vikas engine, which is a non cryogenic rocket engine. But instead we chose to build up long range missiles gradually.

I dont know Pak's capability in building rocket engines for long range missiles.

 

[Safriz]

^^ I dont think Pakistan will risk disclosing any such capability...There will be torrent of embargoes on Pakistan.

 

[Hyperion]

Can anyone tell me any rocket motors or engines developed by Pakistan which are capable for an ICBM?? For example India in 1990 wanted to quickly develop an ICBM called surya by using the vikas engine, which is a non cryogenic rocket engine. But instead we chose to build up long range missiles gradually.

I dont know Pak's capability in building rocket engines for long range missiles.

Buddy, other than the cryogenic engine, most are *now* being manufactured locally. We are also going down the same path. Atmospheric re-insertion (maneuverability) work is ongoing and is progressing pretty decently.

Just so that you know, full time efforts are also on for Cryogenic engine, however, you know the nature of Pakistan's disclosures, they won't be announcing anything soon. Just like you got 11 samples from Russia, we have a couple of our own!

 

[karan21]

^^ I dont think Pakistan will risk disclosing any such capability...There will be torrent of embargoes on Pakistan.

But still who are the rocket engineers of Pakistan's recent missiles?? Where is all this job done??? Kuch to batao:lol

 

[Hyperion]

^^ I dont think Pakistan will risk disclosing any such capability...There will be torrent of embargoes on Pakistan.

Nah, you don't have to announce that it's an ICBM. Just complete the hardware for orbit insertion, (ejection and in-orbit maneuverability), and you're done. Voila, you have a working ICBM... Repackaging it is a breeze!

But still who are the rocket engineers of Pakistan's recent missiles?? Where is all this job done??? Kuch to batao:lol

LOL.... Do you have any doubts buddy that there aren't *enough* of them around?

Think again!

 

[The Deterrent]

That's because we only perform public tests when they are needed, in political terms. In reality the missiles have been developed and perfected long before they are tested for the public eyes thus any problems are ironed out during development.

Sir I think you should take this statement of yours back, because it doesn't sounds logical in our case. We have had several COMPLETELY failed and more than a dozen partially failed missile test flights.