T-Darter BVRAAM - A future weapon of PAF ?

[Gryphon]

T-Darter Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) Program

Excerpts:

=> 24 February 1999

Denel of South Africa is offering Pakistan a package of air-to-air weaponry for its planned Chengdu Super 7 fighter being jointly developed with China. It includes a proposed joint development of a datalink-equipped radar-guided beyond visual range (BVR) missile.

The Pakistan air force confirms it is evaluating a range of active-guided BVR missiles, including the newly proposed T-Darter development by Denel's Kentron. The air force's Super 7 chief project director, Air Vice Marshal Hamid Khawaja, describes the South African missile as "very impressive on paper".

T-Darter is understood to be a further development of Kentron's radar-equipped R-Darter now in low-rate production and Ramjet-powered S-Darter or LRAAM. The new proposed air-breathing missile would incorporate a datalink for mid-course guidance updates and effective target engagements at ranges in excess of 50km (27nm).

Denel offers Pakistan missile deal - Flightglobal

=> 18 December 2003

The H-4 bombs have been made through indigenous efforts by modifying the technological design of South African T-Darter BVR missiles. Till the induction of JF-17 Thunder in 2006, with a provision for BVRs, the H-2 and H-4 bombs could be carried by Mirage fighter jets.

PAF adds new bombs to its arsenal - Dawn

=> 6 October 2006

Under existing plans the SAAF will not have a BVRAAM for its Saab Gripen fighter force when it enters service at the end of the decade. The R-Darter missile, currently fielded on SAAF Cheetah C fighters, is to be retired along with the Cheetahs around 2010. (JDW)

South Africa eyes new missile for Gripen fighter - The South African Air Force

=> 14 April 2008

Denel Dynamics, the smart weapons division of the state arms maker, is conceptualising a new high-performance radar-guided missile that, if it comes to fruition, will provide SA's fleet of Gripen advanced light fighter aircraft its main punch.

The advanced weapon will also have substantial export potential and could gain the country billions of rand in foreign exchange in addition to boosting the local ICT skills and know-how base.

The missile is known as the T Darter and is being designed to replace the R Darter (Radar Darter) currently in service with the SA Air Force (SAAF), where it is known as the V4. Cabinet, in 2003, decided to retire the V4 when the Cheetah fighter jet was withdrawn from service as the missile contained Israeli technology and required continued assistance from that country to remain operational.

Denel Dynamics CEO Jan Wessels says the T Darter will join their A Darter, currently under joint development with Brazil, under the wings of the Gripen, which has just started entering service with the SAAF. Last month SAAF started phasing out the Cheetah and the V4.

SA is the only member of the Non-Aligned Movement, other than India, that can design and build missiles in this class, called the beyond visual range category in military circles.

“T Darter is a concept radar-guided missile,” Wessels says. “We are [proposing to use] some of our existing technologies and [are] looking for partners for the rest. We will typically provide the nose of this missile, which is the radar and are looking for a partner for the 'back end',” he says.

Other than the radar, the 'front end' also includes a number of proprietary processors that guide the weapon to its intended target at ranges that can extend to over 60km – the striking distance of the V4.

Denel conceptualises new missile - ITWeb

=> 25 November 2010

Chief of the Air Force (CAF) Lt Gen Carlo Gagiano last year said the SAAF was contemplating a beyond visual range AAM (BVRAAM) for Gripen, but added that high integration costs and a tight budget this would likely mean the choice of a weapon already integrated by the original equipment manufacturer. Denel Dynamics, the state arsenal business unit developing the A-Darter with Brazil under a billion rand programme dubbed Project Assegaai, had hoped to develop a local radar-guided BVRAAM for Gripen, provisionally called the T-Darter.

SAAF maintaining IRIS-T arsenal - defenceWeb

=> 6 June 2013

South African arms manufacturer Denel Dynamics says it is working toward producing a family of surface-to-air and air-to-air defense missiles amid a larger push to expand collaboration with nations in South America, Asia, the Middle East and elsewhere in Africa.

Denel says its new missile technology system, called Marlin, should lead to surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) for armies and navies and air-to-air missiles (AAMs) for air forces.

Besides Brazil, Denel in 2008 was reported to be working with China in developing the T-Darter missile system.

Denel Sees High-Tech Opportunities in Developing Countries - Defense News

Is it possible that PAF will acquire the T-Darter BVR missile for JF-17s in the future ?

@fatman17 @Aeronaut @WebMaster @PWFI @BATMAN @Major Sam @cb4 @farhan_9909 @mafiya @Jungibaaz @Spring Onion @qamar1990 @Imran Khan @Gentelman

 

[Zarvan]

Please post pictures and yes if Pakistan can get them and has money we should go for them they are one of the best Missile in the world these days but our issue is economy as well as pressure of India and other forces in the world that is why we often don't get weapons from the west

 

[qamar1990]

T-Darter Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) Program

Excerpts:












Is it possible that PAF will acquire the T-Darter BVR missile for JF-17s in the future ?

@fatman17 @Aeronaut @WebMaster @PWFI @BATMAN @Major Sam @cb4 @farhan_9909 @mafiya @Jungibaaz @Spring Onion @qamar1990 @Imran Khan @Gentelman

yes it is possible lol

 

[farhan_9909]

Well i had read in the past and even reported by Janes and Wiki aswell

NDC had a plan to develop a BVR

Air-to-air missile research - It was reported in November 2001 that the Aerospace Division of NDC was doing "preliminary studies" for developing a new medium range air-to-air missile. According to the report no full scale hardware had yet been built but investigations by NDC engineers into various design approaches were ongoing. The report stated that suggested that the missile may utilise active radar homing.[1][2]

National Development Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Defense & Security Intelligence & Analysis: IHS Jane's | IHS

Don't know what happened to the project

 

[Black Eagle 90]

I think if SUPARCO, NESCOM and KRL would try then they can easily produce each and every missile and bombs the Pak Military needs.

 

[nomi007]

 

[Gryphon]

Please post pictures

T-Darter BVRAAM is believed to be in initial stages of development. Though South Africa's Gripen fighters aren't equipped with any BVR missile, they have reportedly abandoned the plans to equip Saab JAS 39 Gripens with T-Darter BVRAAM in the future. But T-Darter development continues...

and yes if Pakistan can get them and has money we should go for them they are one of the best Missile in the world these days but our issue is economy

Not a big issue here...

as well as pressure of India and other forces in the world that is why we often don't get weapons from the west

Our defence cooperation with SA is good, yindu pressure won't work ..

 

[fatman17]

there has been some technology transfer from Denel but with the AIM-120 and SD-10 fully available, a 3rd BVR dosnt make sense IMO.

 

[nomi007]

AIM-120 SD-10 now Darter nice induction in paf

 

[nomi007]

T-Darter BVRAAM

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan in general lacks the Vision to put funds in University based research and development programs which is why we lack in

a) Engine Manufacturing
b) Machine / Engineering
c) Design and Planning type scenarios on Large Mega Projects

Air to Air Missile is no different needs lot of specialized skills to make such missiles work and we lack the
Education , High end investment or budgeting or Vision in general for such scale projects

We are "Assembly" Nation.

Reality is we can't even repair a Locomotive unless full assembled parts are imported in ... as people don't have skills to open a engine and repair it

The fact the JF17 Thunder runs on Russian engine is an example of where the issue lies in Long term planning for Nation


Those 10,000-20,000 University uneducated engineers or scientist had they been given Government funding or jobs for Minstry of Defence / Research , we could have been building these Same missiles and Engines in Pakistan

But every year this talent is "WASTED" and they end up doing marginal jobs like website or customer service or phone lines

This is the reason for our Problems ....

With Education system so WEAK and horrendous only may be 0.01% of students that were lucky to be in right schools (due to parents) or who studied abroad are lucky ones

We can't EXPECT ..... any air to air missiles from schools/ universities that operate as shown in above video

Heck our Politicians have fake degrees ... what else can be said

Even with all flaws I have seen GENIUSES, who were Pakistanis while I was in school/University so they talent is always there

Pakistan Needs a Overhaul of its Education System / Quality of Education and mode of exams to focus more on Quality vs MEMORIZE 1000 page books for exams

Yes the Missiles and Engine and other good stuff will only come after....

 

[Tacticool]

Pakistan in general lacks the Vision to put funds in University based research and development programs which is why we lack in

a) Engine Manufacturing
b) Machine / Engineering
c) Design and Planning type scenarios on Large Mega Projects

Air to Air Missile is no different needs lot of specialized skills to make such missiles work and we lack the
Education , High end investment or budgeting or Vision in general for such scale projects

We are "Assembly" Nation.

Reality is we can't even repair a Locomotive unless full assembled parts are imported in ... as people don't have skills to open a engine and repair it

The fact the JF17 Thunder runs on Russian engine is an example of where the issue lies in Long term planning for Nation


Those 10,000-20,000 University uneducated engineers or scientist had they been given Government funding or jobs for Minstry of Defence / Research , we could have been building these Same missiles and Engines in Pakistan

But every year this talent is "WASTED" and they end up doing marginal jobs like website or customer service or phone lines

This is the reason for our Problems ....

With Education system so WEAK and horrendous only may be 0.01% of students that were lucky to be in right schools (due to parents) or who studied abroad are lucky ones

We can't EXPECT ..... any air to air missiles from schools/ universities that operate as shown in above video

Heck our Politicians have fake degrees ... what else can be said

Even with all flaws I have seen GENIUSES, who were Pakistanis while I was in school/University so they talent is always there

Pakistan Needs a Overhaul of its Education System / Quality of Education and mode of exams to focus more on Quality vs MEMORIZE 1000 page books for exams

Yes the Missiles and Engine and other good stuff will only come after....

100% agreed with you buddy. I picked active protection system as my final year project. We have to put huge constraints in detection and tracking because no help is being given to get exposure in this field. :-(
Only using digital image processing for detection which is far to be applicable in combat situations.

 

[Quwa]

Pakistan in general lacks the Vision to put funds in University based research and development programs which is why we lack in

a) Engine Manufacturing
b) Machine / Engineering
c) Design and Planning type scenarios on Large Mega Projects

Air to Air Missile is no different needs lot of specialized skills to make such missiles work and we lack the
Education , High end investment or budgeting or Vision in general for such scale projects

We are "Assembly" Nation.

Reality is we can't even repair a Locomotive unless full assembled parts are imported in ... as people don't have skills to open a engine and repair it

The fact the JF17 Thunder runs on Russian engine is an example of where the issue lies in Long term planning for Nation


Those 10,000-20,000 University uneducated engineers or scientist had they been given Government funding or jobs for Minstry of Defence / Research , we could have been building these Same missiles and Engines in Pakistan

But every year this talent is "WASTED" and they end up doing marginal jobs like website or customer service or phone lines

This is the reason for our Problems ....

With Education system so WEAK and horrendous only may be 0.01% of students that were lucky to be in right schools (due to parents) or who studied abroad are lucky ones

We can't EXPECT ..... any air to air missiles from schools/ universities that operate as shown in above video

Heck our Politicians have fake degrees ... what else can be said

Even with all flaws I have seen GENIUSES, who were Pakistanis while I was in school/University so they talent is always there

Pakistan Needs a Overhaul of its Education System / Quality of Education and mode of exams to focus more on Quality vs MEMORIZE 1000 page books for exams

Yes the Missiles and Engine and other good stuff will only come after....

Pakistan doesn't lack the vision, it lacks the independence. If it had lacked the vision then there would be nothing, i.e. no nuclear weapons, no JF-17, not even Al Khalid. Pakistan would be like Oman or Syria (in terms of defence industry, R&D, etc.) Pakistan just lacks the political independence (i.e. a government that hasn't sold out and a military leadership that isn't corrupt) to do amazing things, but there are plenty of people with vision underneath holding the fort down. They're the ones who brought us Ra'ad and are probably working on an indigenous BVRAAM solution as we speak.

 

[Nishan_101]

GoP should firstly look towards improving the overall education system of Pakistan and making it free from Montessori to the level of Master and emphasis more and more on Science education than commerce or arts with Separate Montessori, Schools, High School and Universities/Colleges for Male and FeMales.

Also for the development of Missiles I would say that SUPARCO, NESCOM & KRL-GIDS along with PAC can easily make it possible and they can produce each and every kind and type of Surface to Surface, Surface to Air and Air to Surface with in Pakistan they just need money from GoP and support from the local people.

 

[Comrade]

Ingenious designing is not necessary because it takes years to mature in engineering disciplines you are not competing for an engineering trophy you have to design and acquire through any means considered necessary and strengthen your defensive position since you are a defensive country.
We have some of the best minds and we are the master of reverse engineering.