T-Darter BVRAAM - A future weapon of PAF ?

[airomerix]

This missile is still on drawing boards. Isnt it?

 

[Kompromat]

This missile is still on drawing boards. Isnt it?

Under development.

 

[Bratva]

IIRC, South africa asked Pakistan to share the developmental costs in T-DARTER way back in 05-06. Pakistan refused for unknown reasons and T-DARTER deal never went ahead.

Then Pakistan interest shifted to SD-10 and A darter. T-DARTER is history now for PAF

 

[Quwa]

IIRC, South africa asked Pakistan to share the developmental costs in T-DARTER way back in 05-06. Pakistan refused for unknown reasons and T-DARTER deal never went ahead.

Then Pakistan interest shifted to SD-10 and A darter. T-DARTER is history now for PAF

The unfortunate thing about South Africa is that a lot of their programs, e.g. T-Darter, Bataleur UAV, etc. are stuck early in the development cycle. If Pakistan were interested it'd have to foot more money (than usual), and incur a fair bit of risk (given South Africa's shaky hand when it comes to relations with Pakistan). But if Pakistan did have the money, they'd easily buy up T-Darter, A-Darter, Denel's SAM and PGB, Bataleur UAV, etc.

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

there has been some technology transfer from Denel but with the AIM-120 and SD-10 fully available, a 3rd BVR dosnt make sense IMO.

in case of any sanctions or running out of the missiles inventory , an indeginous b.v.r. missile does make a lot of sense... as many as we want

 

[Basel]

Pakistan need an advance western standard BVR missile which it can produce too, if T-DARTER is the answer and it is affordable than PAF should push govt. for money and other necessary procedures to be done to get it, having multiple BVR missile with different capabilities will enhance fighting capability of the air force, India is also doing the same.

 

[trident2010]

Even better if PAF can jointly develop the BVR with South africa.

 

[burraak]

Ingenious designing is not necessary because it takes years to mature in engineering disciplines you are not competing for an engineering trophy you have to design and acquire through any means considered necessary and strengthen your defensive position since you are a defensive country.
We have some of the best minds and we are the master of reverse engineering.

I totally agreed we are not in any competition to invent neither we have enough resources but we are masters of reverse engineering a short cut to acquire technology Once an Israeli missile engineer quoted "technology is in our genes" and I quote "reverse engineering is in our genes"

 

[fatman17]

if the country has its own funds, then there is no issue which weapon system to buy - hard cash speaks for itself.

 

[Nishan_101]

NESCOM and GIDS can develop its own range of weapons...

 

[Gryphon]

T-Darter Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) Program
(Updated)

Excerpts:

=> 11 October 2006

Denel Aerospace is developing a new active-radar beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) to meet a future South African Air Force (SAAF) requirement for a weapon in this class.

Under existing plans the SAAF will not have a BVRAAM for its Saab Gripen fighter force when it enters service at the end of the decade. The R-Darter missile, currently fielded on SAAF Cheetah C fighters, is to be retired along with the Cheetahs around 2010.

Denel has confirmed the existence of the new AAM to Jane's, but provided few details and declined to identify the project by name. The missile will use significant elements of Denel's Umkhonto naval surface-to-air missile (SAM), but be fitted with a new seeker. Current Umkhonto weapons are infra-red (IR)-guided but a new active-radar seeker is under development for the Umkhonto-R SAM variant.

Denel would not say if the BVRAAM would incorporate the Unkhonto's thrust-vectored controls, a key element of the SAM's design. While noting that it has proved difficult in the past to develop an effective AAM from an existing SAM, Denel believes that the Umkhonto (and its components) is a viable basis from which to start.

Earlier work done on advanced BVR weapons at weapons at Denel - successors to the R-Darter known as S-Darter and T-Darter - will also flow into the new design. Asked if this might include the ramjet propulsion systems once considered for future South African AAM's, a company representative replied obliquely that ‘range is always important', although another programme official described the new weapon a missile in the 60km range class.

The new BVRAAM is still in its primary design phase and Denel says this cannot be finalised until the SAAF issues a formal requirement. Denel also notes that the R-Darter has not been completely abandoned and that, officially, the decision to integrate it with the Gripen has only been ‘deferred'. However, all work with the R-Darter by the Gripen team was halted some time ago under direction from Armscor.

Denel hopes to produce hardware for the new missile in about two years time. Significantly, a company official stated that the development programme would ‘almost certainly be an international effort'. The most obvious future partners are Brazil and India. South Africa already has common missile projects under way with Brazil, but plans for wider military technology co-operation have yet to live up to expectations. (JDW)

South Africa eyes new missile for Gripen fighter - The South African Air Force

=> 17 July 2009

The CE adds that Denel Dynamics are still doing research work on a T-Darter radar-guided medium range air-to-air missile as well as a radar-guided variant of its short-range Umkhonto IR surface-to-air missile, in use with the SA and Finnish navies.

Regarding the Umkhonto, Wessels added that SA "wants to team up with another country but that country is not ready yet." A medium-range version of the Umkhonto is also on the cards.

SA, Brazil to start manufacture of A Darter in 2011 | defenceWeb

=> 26 August 2011

In addition to the A-Darter, the company has a project to develop a new radar-guided, beyond-visual-range AAM (BVRAAM), currently known as the B-Darter. This will be based on ten years of investment since the deployment of South Africa’s last indigenous BVRAAM, the V4.

Central to this project has been the development of powerful radar technology compact enough to fit into the airframe of a BVRAAM. (Denel Dynamics has confirmed that this technology will be directly employed for the seeker head of the radar-guided version of the Umkhonto.)

“We are ready to produce a BVRAAM demonstrator,” affirms Wilson. “But we need an investment partner for full-scale industrial development, like on the A-Darter. At home, we need government support and a user requirement from the SAAF.”

The proposed B-Darter would probably have a maximum range greater than 80 km. “Our target is to be in the middle of the market –medium range and medium cost,” she asserts.

Denel Dynamics markets high-tech missile offering to SANDF and friendly countries | Engineering News

 

[Donatello]

It is interesting to see that South Africa with such a small air force, and not any real enemies to fight, has such a innovative project going for air launched weapons.

 

[araz]

It is interesting to see that South Africa with such a small air force, and not any real enemies to fight, has such a innovative project going for air launched weapons.

Dost it wasn'talways like that. The south African weapons programme was in response to restrictions imposed on it by the world for its policy of aparthied. The rich mineral resources provided the funds and it got help from various quarters as well. Now most of those incentives are gone as is the money along with the technical minds that have gone for greener pastures. SA is now a spent force.
Araz

 

[fatman17]

Brazil is the route for PK to get BVR's. Brazil and SA have a JV now which allows both to make independent deals.

 

[Gryphon]

It is interesting to see that South Africa with such a small air force, and not any real enemies to fight, has such a innovative project going for air launched weapons.

It is more interesting to note that they are using tech from R-Darter BVRAAM, T-Darter BVRAAM, S-Darter LRAAM, Umkhonto naval SAM to make an advanced BVR named B-Darter which is said to have range > 80 Km.