i hope we replace t 72 with T 90 AM.
we should buy at least 510 T 90 AM MBTs.
Waste of money. Russian thermal imagers have known to have issues in Indian heat. The most drastic changes on the T-90AM are electronics and upgraded armor. We could upgrade T-90s manufactured in India. But the last time India purchased T-90 tanks the Indian army removed the bells and whistles for more conventional and proven concepts. The T-90AM will not be sold to India, perhaps some ideas will make it to the Indian assembly line but most likely the Indians will collaborate with Russians to update the electronics and add additional armor.
Been reading too much Rakshack? In terms of the Arjun v. T90 nonsense the guy either spread some factitious claims or the competition was staged, and now many look at the T-90 as a second class tank. I find it ironic that the T-90's performance in exercises and competitions in Russia and in India have revealed that the tank has excellent if not world class hit rates, rate of fire, accuracy and mobility yet it does poor against the Arjun? Something is not right.
Read this before proclaiming the tank to be junk:
Really?
This is were your national patriotism shows. Read up on the T-90 and don't believe what you hear and believe only half of what you see. The T-90 and Arjun are different class, ie weight and armor.
Further, Russian tanks have a bad rap from the Gulf War but the truth is the Iraqi Army mostly used Chinese Type 69's, the T-72's that Iraq had were actually locally assembled tanks with mismatching parts.
Also the effectiveness of Russian reactive amour:
We've heard all the excuses. Look at what happened in Checyna. RPG and ATGM destroyed Russian tanks and killed the crew!
Interestingly to destroy some T-72 variants the kinetic energy rounds will have to penetrate the equivalent of 20 inches of steal. Obviously the T-90M or T-90AM has improved amour both regular as well as reactive.
And the placement of stored rounds have changed again. Point?
The T-90 is a mutilation of the T-72 assembly line and still has the same flaws, ie armor and crew safety. Why? Internal room is small. The Turret is not separated from the chassis.
If your not going to look at that I suggest you look at the price of these tanks.
Arjun 5 mill
T-90 2-3 mill
Aside for that the Indian army is probably more supportive of the Russian arms complex than the Russian army and yet even they figured out the Arjun moves faster, does more damage and changes the armor concept. The Indians are doing what the USSR did in the cold war. Have a high and low mix of tanks. One tank with high survivability and the other to pound enemy bunkers etc...
If thats not enough proof, i recommend you sit in a T-72/T90 and then go sit in a Leopard/Arjun and look for the difference. The Indian army doesn't want to training a new crew every time a tank is destroyed. If your still adamant that the T-90 is better than the Arjun, then look up the designer of the Arjun tank. There is a reason why the Arjun and Leopard look a like and even share the same flaws in design.
You are the first Indian to call Russian tanks Russian junk. I'm proud of you that you see the light. India should look into getting some M1A3 tanks and ditch everything else.
Dumbass, Pakistan looked into Abrhams in the 70's/80's and found out that they have a high pressure ratio and sunk in the sand.
Read my previous post about the T-90s performance, it set an unofficial record in targets hit all this at ranges of up to 1500-2500m and while moving 25km/h. Also the Abrams was unable to penatrate a T-72 fitted with Kontakt-5 ERA.
A little research by your part as well as Bagee's would be nice, it's clear that neither of you have any idea what you are talking about.
Okay lets say thats true. Can a T-90 with its 125mm smoothbore get good accuracy beyond 3 km? Keep in mind the longest tank to tank kill was in the first gulf war by a Challenger tank armed with a rifled gun at a distance of 5 km.
So why is India making T-90s as the primary tank of India instead of the domestically produced tanks? The military still have no trust in India made tanks.
Its cheap. India still had the machines to produce T-72 tanks from Russia, which allows them to make T-90's with little change in production method. ie it was economical to do so.
Simple,because Arjun mk1 came too late and that's why IA had to procure T90S to counter Pakistan's T80UDs.Now the much improved Arjun MkII is ready,so there is simply no point to order more Arjun MkIs.In future much greater number of Arjun MkII will be ordered.
REGARDS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Not just late but we could never have a complete 1 on 1 replacement of T-55/T72 replacement with the Arjuns gold price.
And did you think that Kontakt-5 was the only ERA? T-90's are now being offered with Relikt which is superior to the Kontakt-5. And do you believe that the M829A2 or M829A3 will have the same results if the Kontakt-5 is fitted onto a T-90 as opposed to a T-72? A better question, do you think that the M829A2 or M829A3 will be successful when a T-90 is fitted with Relikt? Point in case, the Kontakt-5 was able to defeat DU rounds from an Abrams A1, if a T-72 was able to do that than a T-90 fitted with either Kontakt-5 or Relikt will be difficult if not impossible for most tanks to penetrate.
In terms of protection the T-90 is amongst the best, in terms of rate of fire and accuracy again it is amongst the best, I have yet to hear of another tank hitting 7 targets in 54 seconds at ranges of 1500-2500m while traveling at 25km/h. The T-90 also has the ability to fire long range ATGM's while jamming enemy ATGM's. The T-90 offers capabilities that no other tank offers, people can keep insulting the T-90 all they want but it only shows their ignorance, most people are clueless about the T-90's capabilities and even more clueless about the tanks performance in trials.
ERA Explodes when shot with HEAT or HESH Rounds. The protection provided by the ERA is great but not a multiple shot solution. When the T-72/T-90 are naked, their armor does not match up to Leopards and its cousins.
Um, dude. The Russians have decades of experience in armored warfare and tank production. While India's Arjun is a good effort, I wouldn't say it is more proven or all around better than the T-90.
If you gave the Americans Russian tanks, and the Iraqis with American tanks, the Americans would still win.
My two cents.
It may not be proven but neither is the Leopard tanks. However the Abrahm and Challenger large concepts from the Leoprd design.
India may not have experience designed a tank but the guy who helped with the designed the Arjun also designed the Leopard MBT.
FYI the Americans had a lot of kills thanks to the training they receive in live fire training but they don't know how to use the T-72. Crew aside the tank concept followed by the Western nations emphasis crew survivability. That to me is important when you spend 200-300 million alone on tank training.
my 2 rupee
During the Chechen conflict, the Russians apparently used T-80s to try to capture control points in an urban environment, something tanks aren't very well suited to do. It was not due to the fact that the tank is bad, it had more to do with inadequate planning. Also, gas turbine engines can be real gas-guzzlers, a potential logistical problem.
When hit with IED they were noted to kill the crew.
They never updated the important features on their T-72s such as thermal sights, laser targeting, night vision, reactive armor, composite armor and most importantly, depleted uranium shells. There could even be more. The Americans had all that.
The Americans revealed that not only did the T-72's blow up from the inside with one hit but even HEAT rounds at longer distance ie >3km still make kills on these tanks.
And guess what? The Viets used exactly the same weapons against the Americans and the South Vietnamese Army. They made one of the world's superpower, and a technologically advanced one run like dogs with their tails between their legs.
Given that you have up-to-date weapons for the task (that is one thing), it is not what tank you are using, or any weapon system for that matter where ever it is from. It is the human element that counts a lot.
The Russians make good tanks overall.
Those tanks were destroyed but not tank to tank on the lines we saw in Iraq. The Jungle helped them hide but made them difficult to move.
The Russians make good tanks overall.
I'd say the Russians make tanks cheap and affordable. For every M1 the Americans had the USSR would have 3 t-72's.
T-90AM is the upgrade version of famouse T-90, and arjun II is the upgrade of a joke tank```its obvious which one is better
The Indians have made a tank work and introduced it despite the negative bullshite and frenzy Pakistan and Chinese had, called it a failure.
Fact is the Arjun has better survivability than the Soviet design tanks, ie T-72/T80 and even your Type 99 which is based on the T-72. Good luck to the Chinese crew.
