T-80 and T-85 MBTs of Pakistan along with Al Khalid and Al Zarrar

[AUSTERLITZ]

Again lighter newer generation ERA tiles dont make em inferior to fat old generation era used by other countries... second do enlighten us how you can recognise an armours thickness by just looking at a picture?



So ur running out of arguements and pointing at others?

1]I never said old generation ERA,again putting words in my mouth,only said light ERA block as evident from picture.
2]Nope,i'm just acknowledging that there are better people at this than me,if we do this it will only end up ur word against mine.Seriously why are u so afraid to just post a topic?
Anyway i found a sticky topic on al khalid in pakistan section of forum which has great info with militarysta/damian and a knowledgable pakistani armour member dazzler i think.Its got lots of pics and hopefully greta info.So checking that now.
Can't post thread or ban.

Ak and t-80ud both use naiza series APFSDS

Ak1 really has very thickened side skirts.the side skirts issue is resolved in the ak1 but i dont know why they didnt resolved the turret.

Somehow i think the AK1 we saw in feb 2010 was not a completed mass produced Ak1.but rather still in development.

Ak and t-80ud both use naiza series APFSDS

Ak1 really has very thickened side skirts.the side skirts issue is resolved in the ak1 but i dont know why they didnt resolved the turret.

Somehow i think the AK1 we saw in feb 2010 was not a completed mass produced Ak1.but rather still in development.

Yes al khalid's side armour is very good.Far better than arjun sadly.
Naiza is not problem for us.We have similar/comparable/better round.In ammunition both sides are mostly equal.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

1]I never said old generation ERA,again putting words in my mouth,only said light ERA block as evident from picture.
2]Nope,i'm just acknowledging that there are better people at this than me,if we do this it will only end up ur word against mine.Seriously why are u so afraid to just post a topic?
Anyway i found a sticky topic on al khalid in pakistan section of forum which has great info with militarysta/damian and a knowledgable pakistani armour member dazzler i think.Its got lots of pics and hopefully greta info.So checking that now.
Can't post thread or ban.

So tell us more about "lighter ERA"...

]Yes al khalid's side armour is very good.Far better than arjun sadly.
Naiza is not problem for us.We have similar/comparable/better round.In ammunition both sides are mostly equal.

Again i explained to u you guys tht DU is more effective than tungten... as for better... and all... my frnd u still import ammo from russia..

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

So tell us more about "lighter ERA"...




Again i explained to u you guys tht DU is more effective than tungten... as for better... and all... my frnd u still import ammo from russia..

We make our own ammo too.
We only import the new APFSDS round for T-90.
Drdo copied the israeli APFSDS round,original penetration was 450 mm.IA rejected it.Then upgraded tp 500 mm,still not satisfied...current model has 610mm penetration which deep upgrade based on original israeli round.New round under development will have 650+ mm penetration.
I posted pics of the 3 rounds earlier.

As for DU ,Against modern composites DU better at very long ranges,at medium,short range its tungsten from what i hear.
Also DU is cheaper than machinized tungsten.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

By light ERA i mean mostly a single ERA slab placed....aejya,old t-72s,Chinese tanks have usually this type of ERA,Heavy ERA on turret of t-90,offers complete protection,its bigger and turret was designed to act with it as a whole,not just a convenient add on.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Compare it to AK's earlier picture for ERA protection.It had a single angled slab on each side of turret and some individual tiles on top,left lot of space exposed compared to this which looks like turret is almost wrapped in ERA . No part of frontal turret is vulnerable.

 

[Keshav Murali]

I think there are 122mm HEAT rounds too for towed artillery...
Any how its not the thread to discuss artillery, i was just referring to use of old tanks in defensive, direct fire roles. Your idea of converting old tanks into IFV is good but sadly not feasible. Instead of so much redesigning its better to build a new IFV from scratch.

122 mm HEAT is actually quite ineffective. Outdated ammunition.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

We make our own ammo too.
We only import the new APFSDS round for T-90.
Drdo copied the israeli APFSDS round,original penetration was 450 mm.IA rejected it.Then upgraded tp 500 mm,still not satisfied...current model has 610mm penetration which deep upgrade based on original israeli round.New round under development will have 650+ mm penetration.
I posted pics of the 3 rounds earlier.

And you must search PDF for POF made ammo...

As for DU ,Against modern composites DU better at very long ranges,at medium,short range its tungsten from what i hear.
Also DU is cheaper than machinized tungsten.

Yes its a bit cheaper but certainly more effective... as it is dense it produces more KE ...provides more penetration etc... you may google about it..

 

[Keshav Murali]

It will go where last time it went when ur frnd claimed AKs frontal armour was weaker and can be screwed by even a bmp type vehicle ... later debunked.

Where the hell did I say something like that

Forum Cannot Be ever That Accurate and Correct. Because Real Tank masters have no time to sit on forums ....

That forum consists of mostly retired tankers and analysts. Retired now, they do it for a hobby and to pass the time.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

By light ERA i mean mostly a single ERA slab placed....aejya,old t-72s,Chinese tanks have usually this type of ERA,Heavy ERA on turret of t-90,offers complete protection,its bigger and turret was designed to act with it as a whole,not just a convenient add on.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Compare it to AK's earlier picture for ERA protection.It had a single angled slab on each side of turret and some individual tiles on top,left lot of space exposed compared to this which looks like turret is almost wrapped in ERA . No part of frontal turret is vulnerable.

Again u are assuming tht AKs ERA is inferior to the one used on T-90... Aorak mk-2 ERA is a upgraded form of ukranian duplet knife as @farhan_9909 stated... and tested and proven !

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

And you must search PDF for POF made ammo...


Yes its a bit cheaper but certainly more effective... as it is dense it produces more KE ...provides more penetration etc... you may google about it..

Against steel yes.Against composite armour only at very long ranges.At short and medium Tungsten better unless ur uber DU round like M2A9A3 or DM 63.

 

[Keshav Murali]

Lion of babylon ? Are u Nuts or something ? IT had no more than 200mm of frontal armour. Without era Type 85 III has almost 400mm of armour plus Era is greater than 550mm it is indeed a potent tank against lion of babylon and even Any T72 ...

Asad Babil wasn't even a tank, but it still had 400 mm+ of cast steel armour on the hull without ERA, more than the underestimate you have posted. But it still was, undeniably, useless.

Again u are assuming tht AKs ERA is inferior to the one used on T-90... Aorak mk-2 ERA is a upgraded form of ukranian duplet knife as @farhan_9909 stated... and tested and proven !

Any source for it being an upgrade of duplet? Because official Ukrainian sources have stated in 2012 that Nozh, Duplet and derivatives are on use only on T-64BM-Bulat and T-84 "Oplot-M" and T-84 "Yatagan". No mention of Al-Khalid at all. Also, Ukrainian websites are saying that Duplet and Nozh were never exported or design transferred.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Again u are assuming tht AKs ERA is inferior to the one used on T-90... Aorak mk-2 ERA is a upgraded form of ukranian duplet knife as @farhan_9909 stated... and tested and proven !

Not quality of the ERA,just the placement of it.
And yes duplet/knife will be similar to kontakt k-5 on T-90s,but not relikt on t-90M.Duplet works on differnt principle though.
Russians have moved even further with kaktus[ERA on object 640 black eagle,now defunct]And armata won't have ERA from w hat i hear it will have NERA.Leopard and arjun future variants also will have NERA.NERA is lighter,can be placed almost everywhere and impervious to tandem warheads.

 

[Keshav Murali]

Yes al khalid's side armour is very good.Far better than arjun sadly.

Who said that to you? Both are equal and Arjun is getting NERA there and AK might get new ERA. Arjun's side turret armour is bad, just as bad as AK and side hull armour of both is close to 450 mm without upgrades.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Against steel yes.Against composite armour only at very long ranges.At short and medium Tungsten better unless ur uber DU round like M2A9A3 or DM 63.

Again read my post above you... and google DU vs tungsten advantages and disadvantages.

 

[farhan_9909]

i do have the pics of Aorak mk2..let me upload it and than i will post it here

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Who said that to you? Both are equal and Arjun is getting NERA there and AK might get new ERA. Arjun's side turret armour is bad, just as bad as AK and side hull armour of both is close to 450 mm without upgrades.

I meant the right side modular add on,i think that has quite low armour.Left side probably has equal armour.Yes after NERA it will be enough.

Again read my post above you... and google DU vs tungsten advantages and disadvantages.

Again ur talking about those in context of steel armour,not composite.