T-80 and T-84 Main Battle Tanks Information pool

BHarwana · Aug 25, 2018

@Dazzler do you recall 1995/1997 when Russia blocked the sale of T-80 to Pakistan? What we got was a compromise then. Now with upgrade we are getting a good boost.

Dazzler · Aug 25, 2018

BHarwana said:
Obviously if we are paying money we will get something better than we already have and I think these tanks will serve our north west than eastern border. The main problem with T-80 was fuel and upgrading it will bring down that cost. Plus the main threat from west is RPG and new armor upgrade gives that protection. You are all focused on what we need in east but in the western front turbine engine will perform good. Plus tank is being used in middle east and desert is no issue for it. Syria got the upgrade of few T-80 as military aid from Russia. The upgraded tank did well there.

Impractical

You cannot employ a 46 ton in the northern areas. As for the RPG, even an Alzarrar with modified armor can provide decent protection against it. Heavy tanks will not do well at such heights.

Employing T-80 in Syria? never heard of it, though the t-90 did perform better against TOW and Kronets there.

Dazzler · Aug 25, 2018

BHarwana said:
@Dazzler do you recall 1995/1997 when Russia blocked the sale of T-80 to Pakistan? What we got was a compromise then. Now with upgrade we are getting a good boost.

There a long story behind it but to cut it short, the Ukrainians had a huge armour industry for decades. In fact, the crown jewel of Soviet Union, the t-64, was a Ukrainian product. Essentially, they had the the modified t-80 in the works and had the first t-84 was available as early as 1987.

Where am i getting with this? Simple - when the Russians sanctioned Ukrainians, it turned to be a blessing in disguise as we got a much better T-80UD that had elements from the 84 including engine, turret and FCS.

BHarwana · Aug 25, 2018

Dazzler said:
There a long story behind it but to cut it short, the Ukrainians had a huge armour industry for decades. In fact, the crown jewel of Soviet Union, the t-64, was a Ukrainian product. Essentially, they had the the modified t-80 in the works and had the first t-84 was available as early as 1987.

Where am i getting with this? Simple - when the Russians sanctioned Ukrainians, it turned to be a blessing in disguise as we got a much better T-80UD that had elements from the 84 including engine, turret and FCS.

Okay good points so why are getting these upgrades now?
In your thinking.

Dazzler · Aug 25, 2018

BHarwana said:
Okay good points so why are getting these upgrades now?
In your thinking.

For any or most of the following reasons:

- Russian offer performed better than the Ukrainian version (highly unlikely)

- Ukrainians could not perform the upgrades within the deadline

- Russians came with a better offer with slashed prices

- to fill the pockets of some higher ups perhaps

The worst part is that unlike Ukrainians, Russians have a habit of milking customers. See the Indian t-90 saga.

BHarwana · Aug 25, 2018

HRK said:
seems fake news as the link which you have provided mention Sputnik news as a source wile there is nothing mention in Sputnik news in this regards
https://sputniknews.com/search/?query=Pakistan
https://sputniknews.com/search/?query=T-80

https://it.sputniknews.com/mondo/201808246408163-pakistan-russia-ammodernamento-t80/

BHarwana · Aug 25, 2018

Dazzler said:
For any or most of the following reasons:

- Russian offer performed better than the Ukrainian version (highly unlikely)

- Ukrainians could not perform the upgrades within the deadline

- Russians came with a better offer with slashed prices

- to fill the pockets of some higher ups perhaps

The worst part is that unlike Ukrainians, Russians have a habit of milking customers. See the Indian t-90 saga.

The actual reason we are more Russian inclined now in foreign policy.

Secondly it is very easy to compare Ukrainian with Russian performance specs are out there.

Dazzler · Aug 25, 2018

BHarwana said:
The actual reason we are more Russian inclined now in foreign policy.

Secondly it is very easy to compare Ukrainian with Russian performance specs are out there.

The first reason may be a possibility but the Ukrainians have more experience in upgrading the 80 series of mbts. it was their homegrown project and they know more about it than the Russians.

Interestingly, all the upgrades on Russian t-80 variants are done by the company that develops and sells the t-90 and 72 variants. Back in the day, UVZ (Russia) and KMDB (ukraine) were arch rivals. The reason is simple, UVZ wants to treat the t-80 as a second Fidel to their products and this can be seen in the specs of both versions.

Still, i hope the best comes out of it and the experts should ask for the best components for the UDs, IF such a deal is in the making.

ARMalik · Aug 26, 2018

Dazzler said:
For any or most of the following reasons:

- Russian offer performed better than the Ukrainian version (highly unlikely)

- Ukrainians could not perform the upgrades within the deadline

- Russians came with a better offer with slashed prices

- to fill the pockets of some higher ups perhaps

The worst part is that unlike Ukrainians, Russians have a habit of milking customers. See the Indian t-90 saga.

There may be Political reasons as well, since Ukraine government was installed by the US, and with Pak - US relations not very good, I would not be surprised if the US played their hand to create issues between Pak-Ukraine deal which was signed only a few months ago.

Dazzler · Aug 28, 2018

ARMalik said:
There may be Political reasons as well, since Ukraine government was installed by the US, and with Pak - US relations not very good, I would not be surprised if the US played their hand to create issues between Pak-Ukraine deal which was signed only a few months ago.

Ukrainians are cash starved so they will not go that route and lose their biggest defense customer.