T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[Hakan]

 

[xenon54 out]

 

[xxxKULxxx]

ASELFLIR 300T is really huge... I don't know B1s but i hope and i'm quite sure that B2s will have CATS or something like that... It must be like that... I say "I don't know B1s" coz if they replace 300Ts with CATS there can occure balance problem with same EDH fuselage... But when they change nose section(B2) then they can make calculations of new design by considering CATS's specs such as weight...

 

[waz]

Any ideas Turkish bros what the type of ammunition the 20mm gun will be using? What comparisons could be made with the Apache 30mm M789 HEDP round?

 

[LegionnairE]

Any ideas Turkish bros what the type of ammunition the 20mm gun will be using? What comparisons could be made with the Apache 30mm M789 HEDP round?

difficult to say, 20mm rounds are weaker but the Apache's M230 has a relatively short barrel, causing in less velocity and accuracy. Also M197 has a faster firing rate because it's a gatling.

We don't have to use HE rounds for area effect because we have an accurate cannon with high firing rate. Compared to M789 the rounds are weaker but the M197 cannon is good enough to compensate for that. It gives you the flexibility when you're shooting next to friendlies, you can work it like a scapel.

As far as 20mm AP rounds go they are weaker than 30mm DU rounds aswell but I know none of the modern MBTs have composite dorsal armor so composite sabot rounds could be effective against armor yet they have so little mass, they wouldn't be effective against other types of targets.

We'll probably get a "cocktail" mix as standard ammo belts but there would be specialised belts for specialized missions..

 

[waz]

difficult to say, 20mm rounds are weaker but the Apache's M230 has a relatively short barrel, causing in less velocity and accuracy. Also M197 has a faster firing rate because it's a gatling.

We don't have to use HE rounds for area effect because we have an accurate cannon with high firing rate. Compared to M789 the rounds are weaker but the M197 cannon is good enough to compensate for that. It gives you the flexibility when you're shooting next to friendlies, you can work it like a scapel.

As far as 20mm AP rounds go they are weaker than 30mm DU rounds aswell but I know none of the modern MBTs have composite dorsal armor so composite sabot rounds could be effective against armor yet they have so little mass, they wouldn't be effective against other types of targets.

We'll probably get a "cocktail" mix as standard ammo belts but there would be specialised belts for specialized missions..

Thank you for your detailed post bro.

I think the Americans were not too bothered about accuracy as the round had a good kill radius. I'm all for accurate fire but the nature of our insurgency has gathering points and terrorists roving around in groups, which makes the M789 round perfect to be deployed against them.

Here is some use of the M197

For use against armour, our first port of call would be the repertoire of missiles the ATAK will carry.

I like the idea of a "mix" and I'm pretty sure we will see a HE round for the 20mm gun.

 

[-------]

@LegionnairE AH-64 doesn't use DU rounds.

 

[LegionnairE]

@LegionnairE AH-64 doesn't use DU rounds.

I know but it wouldn't matter if it was fired from Gau-8 for my example

 

[-------]

I know but it wouldn't matter if it was fired from Gau-8 for my example

For sure, a larger caliber cannon would have been ideal for T-129. It is mainly the reason why I was cheering on for Rooivalk, that and T-129 cannon looks sloppy.

 

[shaheenmissile]

We are waiting for the ATAK which can launch STİNGER, MIZRAK and CİRİT, and with other new avionics.

But these are Add on/Bolt on..Nothing too complicated once you have the actual helicopter.

 

[LegionnairE]

@waz this is for you too.

For sure, a larger caliber cannon would have been ideal for T-129. It is mainly the reason why I was cheering on for Rooivalk, that and T-129 cannon looks sloppy.

Well, it's the same one we had on Super Cobras if we haven't been happy with it the Land Forces Command would object to that.

You could think that M197 is a scapel and M230 is a hammer but I'm thinking that M197 can be just as powerful due to high fire rate. As you've pointed out M230 doesn't even fire DU, so it's armor piercing abilites aren't extremely good either.

If I was to go for a higher caliber gun it'd be the one on Mi28 Havoc due to it's long barrel. Long barrel doesn't just mean better accuracy, but it also means higher velocity which is crucial for armor piercing role.

But the fact is that nobody uses the main gun for armor piercing anymore. We don't face huge columns of enemy tanks, the cold war is over. Apache was designed to fly over soviet tank columns but all it's doing these days is chasing insurgents.

I honestly think we made the right choice here.

 

[-------]

@waz this is for you too.

Well, it's the same one we had on Super Cobras

You could think that M197 is a scapel and M230 is a hammer but I'm thinking that M197 can be just as powerful due to high fire rate. As you've pointed out M230 doesn't even fire DU, so it's armor piercing abilites aren't extremely good too.

If I was to go for a higher caliber gun it'd be the one on Mi28 Havoc due to it's long barrel.

From what I've read up on M230 (well ammunition anyway), it can penetrate up to 50mm of steel. M197 can penetrate 12.5mm

Links to sources
Ordtech Ammunition 30x113 mm MC213, ADEN, DEFA, DEBO-K30, M230, Mk164
Ammunition - 20mm

I would like to see more technologically advanced cannon, like the one Germans were planning on mounting on their Tigers.

Rheinmetall RMK30

 

[LegionnairE]

@Combat-Master
I don't know about that but from what it appears your source has measured the penetration from 100 meters.
According to this Russian 30mm pens 55mm steel from 1000 meters with APFSDS
that's what I'm talking about.

 

[waz]

Anyone else love the sound the ATAK makes when it turns and manoeuvres?

Terrorists will learn to fear this sound....

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Guys something is very interesting for me... According to deal it is forbidden to sell this heli to Italy... Wtf is that ?.. If Italy doesn't want to buy it then they shouldn't buy it... That's all... I think i couldn't understand what it means... What's the meaning of that ?..