Syrian Airdefences shot down Turkish plane

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i believe TuAF would be slowly phasing out these aircrafts.....F16s and later down the line F-35 will make up their Air Force service

 

[helia]

There are some rumours that this BUK system that shot down Turkish F-4 had been delivered just few weeks ago, and it isn't Syria who controls it. As it takes months for them to learn how to use it properly.
The Chinese friend was referring to this, I assume.

 

[Hack-Hook]

There are some rumours that this BUK system that shot down Turkish F-4 had been delivered just few weeks ago, and it isn't Syria who controls it. As it takes months for them to learn how to use it properly.
The Chinese friend was referring to this, I assume.

well , incidentally the BUK system was an air defense Gun

 

[LegionnairE]

i believe TuAF would be slowly phasing out these aircrafts.....F16s and later down the line F-35 will make up their Air Force service

F16s will probably survive untill 2030s as we plan on keeping F4s until 2020 after F35s become fully operational. Right now we have three types of F4s they are mostly relied on ground combat where their exceptional payload capacity come in handy.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

i think the latest versions of f-16 will stay till 2030 otherwise some will be retired , with f-35 and maybe TFX or another fighter next to it

 

[Selim I]

The F-4 was making radar tests on different altitudes. Starting off with around 21.000 feet (in international waters), and then going down to around 8.000 feet (still in international waters), and then around 7.000 feet (in turkish airspace border Hatay).
The Jet then leaves Turkish borders and flies in international waters with lower altitude, down to 2.000 feet:

The jet is now going lower in altitude, down to 200 feet, and here it is crossing Syrian borders for 5 minutes (11.42-11.47), here the Jet is recieving a warning from Turkish air force that it is off track and needs to return back to its track:

The jet is now back on track, and flies in Turkish and later in international waters. The jet is being shot at, at 11.58 when it is on international waters, and it is now loosing controle and crashes 1 km inside Syrian borders:

 

[Selim I]

Also I just drawed the route of it on MS paint, probably the jet was shot at the tail and made it turn off route.

i've tried to illustrate it here, and you can see it's shot when the jet was on the international waters:

 

[anon45]

The Associated Press: Turkey: NATO should view Syria as attacking it

Turkey: NATO should view Syria as attacking itBy SELCAN HACAOGLU, Associated Press – 2 hours ago
ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkey said Monday it would push NATO to consider Syria's downing of a Turkish jet as an attack on the whole military alliance.

The announcement came on the eve of a meeting by NATO's governing body to discuss the incident. Despite deep frustration among many NATO countries over the conflict in Syria, where the opposition says President Bashar Assad's crackdown on an increasingly armed popular uprising has killed 14,000 people, it's highly unlikely the military alliance will take armed action against the Arab state.

The unarmed RF-4E reconnaissance jet was shot down a mile (1.6 kilometers) inside international airspace on Friday, and two Turkish pilots are still missing, the Turkish government says. It has insisted the plane was not spying on Syria.

Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc also said for the first time Monday that Syrian forces had opened ground fire on a CASA search and rescue plane shortly after the downing, but did not say if that plane was hit.

Arinc said Turkey retained its right to "retaliate" against what he called a "hostile act," but he added, "We have no intention of going at war with anyone."

Still, he added that Turkey will push NATO to consider the jet's downing under Article 5 in a key alliance treaty. Article 5 states that an attack against one NATO member shall be considered an attack against all members.

The North Atlantic Council — which includes ambassadors of the 28 NATO countries — works by consensus and all members must approve any action. The meeting Tuesday comes after Turkey requested it under Article 4 of the treaty, which allows a NATO ally to request such a consultation if it feels its territorial integrity or security has been threatened.

Asked if Turkey will insist on the activation of Article 5 of NATO, Arinc said, "No doubt, Turkey has made necessary applications with NATO regarding Article 4 and Article 5."

"It should be known that within legality we will of course use all rights granted under international law until the end," Arinc said. "This also includes self-defense. This also includes retaliation many-fold. This includes all sanctions that can be applied to the aggressor state under international law. Turkey will not leave anything out on this issue. The public should be assured."

The prospect of Western military intervention in Syria remains remote, despite all the tough talk.

Such action is unlikely to get the support of either the U.N. Security Council or the Arab League, and outside intervention without the blessing of both of those bodies is all but unthinkable. And there is little appetite among the NATO countries — of which the U.S. is the largest — for another war in the Middle East.

Arinc strongly denied Syrian claims that the downed plane was shot by anti-aircraft fire while flying low inside Syrian airspace. The Syrian government said Monday said the plane was hit by a short-range anti-aircraft gun to prove that the plane was inside Syrian territory.

Arinc, however, said Turkey believed the plane was hit with a laser-guided or heat-guided missile — capable of hitting the plane in international airspace.

The deputy premier admitted the jet mistakenly strayed into Syrian airspace when it was flying at an altitude of 200 feet and at a speed of 300 knots, but said it left the Syrian airspace after warnings from Turkish radar operators and that it received no warning from Syrian forces during its five-minute flight inside Syrian territory.

"It was hit while flying 13 miles away (from the Syrian coast) at an altitude of 7,400 feet," Arinc said. "It leaned on its left side and fell steeply for four miles toward the east."

Arinc said the plane crashed into Syrian waters and its wreckage is believed to be below 1,000 meters (3,280 feet).

Arinc also said Syria was misleading the world when it says its forces could not recognize the plane until after it was downed.

He said the plane's electronic signals, which indicate if an aircraft is friend or foe, were activated during the entire flight and that Turkey even intercepted radio conversations in which Syrian forces referred to the plane. Arinc did not elaborate, but Hurriyet newspaper, citing intelligence sources, said Monday that Syrian forces referred to the plane using the Turkish word for "neighbor" — "komsu" —in an intercepted radio conversation.

Arinc reiterated Turkey's insistence that the plane was not spying on Syria but just testing Turkey's radar capabilities.

"There is no doubt that Syrians deliberately targeted our plane in international airspace," Arinc said. "It was an extremely hostile action."

He accused Syria of acting in a "cold-blooded" manner.

It's not settled yet, and I don't want to imply that Syria may have screwed itself, but Syria may have just screwed itself.


Turkey turns to NATO after Syria downs jet | Reuters

US will help Turkey hold Syria

 

[The SC]

Turkey not to ask NATO for collective defence against Syria – Analysts

Ankara, June 26, IRNA – Emergency Session of NATO would be held in Brussels Tuesday under such conditions that it is not predicted that Turkey would in accordance with Article 5 of NATO Charter ask its member states for collective defense against Syria.

According to the IRNA correspondent in Ankara, the NATO Spokesperson Oana Lungescu had earlier announced that Turkey has according to Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization asked for a consultative session of that organization.

According to that article, each of the NATO member states at any time that its territorial integrity, independence, or security would be put at stake, can ask for an emergency NATO session, while according to Article 5, the member state demands collective defense of the NATO members against a country that has caused the threat.

Lungescu added, 'The Tuesday NATO session would be held hoping to find a solution for the Turkey-Syria conflict.'

Under such conditions that Turkey has asked for the NATO emergency session under Article 4 following the downing of an F-4 Turkish fighter jet by Syria, the possibility of demanding collective NATO member states defense against Syria is very minute.

In their Tuesday session the NATO member countries would most probably express solidarity with Turkey in this respect and send a message to the Syrian government that if such a move would be repeated Damascus would not remain unpunished.

Political analysts believe knowing that the NATO members have not reached final consensus regarding Syria, and not wishing to create a gap among them and weaken their solidarity, Turkey would not demand for implementation of Article 5 and collective defense against Syria.

These analysts argue, 'Under the current conditions it does not seem that the NATO member states have reach consensus over military intervention in Syria, while some members of that organization are worried about Russia's stand in that regard and the United States, too, is not after adventurism before the US presidential elections.

According to these analysts, Turkey is presently after achieving solidarity with its allies in NATO in confrontation with Syria's antagonist move, and in addition to that Ankara would keep on issuing warnings that it reserves the right for retaliatory military moves.

NATO said it will hold an emergency meeting on Tuesday to discuss Turkey's claim that Syria shot down one of its warplanes in international airspace and not inside its own territory, a spokesperson for the Atlantic Alliance said Tuesday.

'Turkey has requested consultations under Article 4' of NATO's founding treaty under which member countries can request a meeting if their security is threatened, NATO spokesperson Oana Lungescu said, adding that the meeting would take place on Tuesday.

Turkey's Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said on Turkey's television on Sunday that an investigation by Ankara into the incident concluded that its plane was 'shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria'.

Davutoglu said the plane was shot down shortly after it had 'momentarily violated Syrian airspace' but added that the unarmed plane, on a mission to test Turkey's radar defenses, had posed no threat to Syria at any time.

Turkey called for the NATO meeting early on Sunday: 'We will bring this affair before public opinion and international law in the name of Turkey's honor.'

Syria has acknowledged shooting down the F-4 phantom jet after it violated its airspace, but insists it only identified it as a Turkish fighter after the fact.

'What happened was an accident and not an assault as some like to say,' Syrian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Jihad Maqdissi told the Al-Watan pro-government daily on Sunday. 'Syria was merely exercising its right and sovereign duty and defense,' he said. 'There is no enmity between Syria and Turkey, but political tension (exists) between the two countries.'

 

[Hack-Hook]

Also I just drawed the route of it on MS paint, probably the jet was shot at the tail and made it turn off route.

i've tried to illustrate it here, and you can see it's shot when the jet was on the international waters:

the only way if a shot in the tail made this plane loose control is if it was shot with Air-defense Gun , if it was shot with a missile like for example hawk it simply exploded in the air or loose its tail and dive into the sea .
there is no way an airplane that fly at 200 feet have time enough to deviate from its course and fall dawn several km away if it was a missile you would have found the plan 300-400 m away in front of the place the missile hit it at the altitude of 50m

and please don't talk me about 2300km speed of the plane ,that's the speed of the plane when use the afterburner at its maximum power at very high altitude and you have no weapon or external fuel tanks ,and you only use it , well when you are really in hurry because by activating it you use like 10 time the normal amount of fuel and you must hurry back to the base. at that altitude the peak speed a sane pilot reach is 500-600km/h

 

[Mosamania]

the only way if a shot in the tail made this plane loose control is if it was shot with Air-defense Gun , if it was shot with a missile like for example hawk it simply exploded in the air or loose its tail and dive into the sea .
there is no way an airplane that fly at 200 feet have time enough to deviate from its course and fall dawn several km away if it was a missile you would have found the plan 300-400 m away in front of the place the missile hit it at the altitude of 50m

and please don't talk me about 2300km speed of the plane ,that's the speed of the plane when use the afterburner at its maximum power at very high altitude and you have no weapon or external fuel tanks ,and you only use it , well when you are really in hurry because by activating it you use like 10 time the normal amount of fuel and you must hurry back to the base. at that altitude the peak speed a sane pilot reach is 500-600km/h

Actually there have been many instance of AirCrafts hit with a missile and still managed to get back to the Air base safe and sound which is something a twin engine aircraft enjoys very much compared to their single engined counterparts.

Also in most cases SAMs do not explode "Into the jet" they explode as "CAP (Close as Possible)" to the jet it is tracking in its trajectory. The reason why the pilot probably strafed back into Syrian air space was that regular protocol says in Maximum Risk situations (Like the one the pilot was facing) you head to the nearest possible landing point that also includes say a highway and Syria was closest however I think he didn't make it all the way there and instead crashed 1KM into Syria territory.

You can justify it anyway you like truth stands Assad regime just shot itself in the foot.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Actually there have been many instance of AirCrafts hit with a missile and still managed to get back to the Air base safe and sound which is something a twin engine aircraft enjoys very much compared to their single engined counterparts.

Also in most cases SAMs do not explode "Into the jet" they explode as "CAP (Close as Possible)" to the jet it is tracking in its trajectory. The reason why the pilot probably strafed back into Syrian air space was that regular protocol says in Maximum Risk situations (Like the one the pilot was facing) you head to the nearest possible landing point that also includes say a highway and Syria was closest however I think he didn't make it all the way there and instead crashed 1KM into Syria territory.

You can justify it anyway you like truth stands Assad regime just shot itself in the foot.

you try to land at nearest possible place when the Aircraft is damaged but it still have the controls , when the aircraft is out of control you Eject ,its very simple and according to turkey plane crashed 2km away from were it get hit , and honestly two engine is only useful when you face missiles like man-pads our at must sidewinder .

and still you guys only can claim it was a missile if you can produce a picture of downed plan and damage be comparable with a missile hit profile not air-defense gun .

 

[Al Bhatti]

Jun 26, 2012

Syria intentionally shot down a Turkish jet in international airspace with a missile on Friday, Turkey's vice prime minister said yesterday.

Bulent Arinc told the cabinet: "The facts in our possession show that our plane was hit by a heat-seeking guided laser missile."

And Mr Arinc told a televised news conference yesterday that Syrian forces fired on a second Turkish plane that was searching for the wreckage of the downed RF-4E reconnaissance jet.

He did not say whether the search plane was hit but said the Syrians stopped shooting after a warning from the Turkish military. He added Turkey will push Nato today to consider Syria's action as an attack on the whole military alliance.

Turkish jet was hit by Syrian 'heat-seeking missile' - The National

 

[bdslph]

until now no body know exact what weapon was used to take it down the F4

 

[Quasar]

erdoğan ''TSK'nın angajman kuralları değiştirildi. Suriye'den Türkiye sınırına yaklaşan her askeri unsur tehdit olarak algılanacak ve vurulacaktır." dedi.

''Turkish Armed Forces is changing its rules of engagement; from now on any military element that approaches the Turkish border ... will be regarded as a threat and treated as a military target.''