Sweden the hypocrite didn't allowed to burn the Torah

[Novus ordu seclorum]

why? she is underage according to current sensibilities and understandings. she wasnt considered underage at that time, and that age wasnt considered underage until very recently when western sensibilities started making their way to the east.

The Ahadith narrating that are sound. Muslims need to stop being so apologetic and defensive.


your doing it or not doing it does not change the permissibility of any action. also note that permissibility does not means obligation.

Sahih Hadith can be fabricated. Sahih classification identifies narrators in a chain, usually from a single source. It does not establish history.

The narration of marrying 9 year old originated in Iraq. But, did Ahlal Bayth [Prophet's family] and their descendants marry 9 year olds? Did Abbassids and Umayyads who ruled vast areas marry 9 year olds? Is it/was it a common practise in Makkah or Madinah? Since it was supposedly Sunnah, we would expect female child marriage to be a normal practise, but it isn't. It is common in Yemen.

I read the Quran. It mentions onset of puberty in the context of childhood. Verses are clearly in the context of preparation for adulthood. Puberty is a growing phase. When Quran talks about marriage, it is always says men and women, i.e. between adults

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Turkey who is part of NATO should veto Sweden to not be part of NATO.

 

[S.Y.A]

Sahih Hadith can be fabricated. Sahih classification identifies narrators in a chain, usually from a single source. It does not establish history.

not it cant, lol. gain some actual knowledge.

and yes, it was a normal practice back then. for example read muhammad asad's road to mecca, he too mentions early childhood marriages as late as 1930s in hejaz and nejd.

I read the Quran. It mentions onset of puberty in the context of childhood. Verses are clearly in the context of preparation for adulthood. Puberty is a growing phase. When Quran talks about marriage, it is always says men and women, i.e. between adults

puberty means adulthood in Quran. that is why you need to have contextual knowledge, and knowledge of arabic, tafseer etc. to gain knowledge from the Quran. all hudood, and Islamic rules and laws start applying from onset of puberty.

 

[S.Y.A]

Since it was supposedly Sunnah, we would expect female child marriage to be a normal practise, but it isn't.

yes it is or was. it wasnt something out of the ordinary for sure. even western communities had child marriages, and the US has them to this day.

stop denying history and rejecting Ahadith just because they hurt your modern sensibilities, and stop being an apologist.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

not it cant, lol. gain some actual knowledge.

and yes, it was a normal practice back then. for example read muhammad asad's road to mecca, he too mentions early childhood marriages as late as 1930s in hejaz and nejd.


puberty means adulthood in Quran. that is why you need to have contextual knowledge, and knowledge of arabic, tafseer etc. to gain knowledge from the Quran. all hudood, and Islamic rules and laws start applying from onset of puberty.

I didn't say female child marriage had absolutely no occurrence in Hijaz. I am sure it was a practise among some Arabs. It was not a practise among Ahlal Bayth or any of the prominent Quraish rulers in verifiable history.

Puberty means puberty. It does not mean adulthood. The end of puberty is adulthood.

 

[S.Y.A]

I didn't say female child marriage had absolutely no occurrence in Hijaz. I am sure it was a practise among some Arabs. It was not a practise among Ahlal Bayth or any of the prominent Quraish rulers in verifiable history.

some allege that Caliph Umar married Hazrat Umme Kulthum bint Ali RA when she was very young....

Puberty means puberty. It does not mean adulthood. The end of puberty is adulthood.

not in the modern sense. in Islamic sense, and back then, it meant adulthood, and all rules, laws and punishments started applying to that person.

It was not a practise among Ahlal Bayth or any of the prominent Quraish rulers in verifiable history.

Hazrat Ruqayyah bint Muhammad SAW was married to utbah bin abu lahb at the age of 8, and then remarried to Caliph Utham RA at the age of around 13.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

some allege that Caliph Umar married Hazrat Umme Kulthum bint Ali RA when she was very young....


not in the modern sense. in Islamic sense, and back then, it meant adulthood, and all rules, laws and punishments started applying to that person.


Hazrat Ruqayyah bint Muhammad SAW was married to utbah bin abu lahb at the age of 8, and then remarried to Caliph Utham RA at the age of around 13.

I am talking about verifiable history, as in the later empire when vast numbers were witnesses.

We use Balagh [puberty] with Baccha [child]. We say Balagh Baccha. If puberty meant adulthood, there wouldn't be a need for the word puberty.

Onset of puberty does not equate to adulthood, neither physically nor mentally. How can Quran call a 9 year old, mother of believers? Use common sennse. The Prophet forbade 15 and under from combat because they were too young.

 

[S.Y.A]

The Prophet forbade 15 and under from combat because they were too young.

different thing entirely.

We use Balagh [puberty] with Baccha [child]. We say Balagh Baccha. If puberty meant adulthood, there wouldn't be a need for the word puberty.

you use it, not the people in early days

How can Quran call a 9 year old, mother of believers? Use common sennse.

it does. it is common sense as it was common back then, it was common until the 1900s, and is still common in some cultures. it was the british who first banned it in this region, and they banned it in their areas first in 1200s, until then, it was common there as well.

with you trying to distort and hide history to match modern ethics. stop being an apologist.

I am talking about verifiable history, as in the later empire when vast numbers were witnesses.

it is verifiable history, you just do not choose to believe it because it goes against your modern sensibilities. do gain some proper islamic knowledge instead of reading stuff off wikipedia.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

different thing entirely.

you use it, not the people in early days

it does. it is common sense as it was common back then, it was common until the 1900s, and is still common in some cultures. it was the british who first banned it in this region, and they banned it in their areas first in 1200s, until then, it was common there as well.

with you trying to distort and hide history to match modern ethics. stop being an apologist.

it is verifiable history, you just do not choose to believe it because it goes against your modern sensibilities. do gain some proper islamic knowledge instead of reading stuff off wikipedia.

How is it verifiable history?

When I say 'we', I mean from my ancestry. Balagh along with Baccha is its normative description in the family tradition.

 

[KAL-EL]

jewish adl will contact sweden and threaten them.

One possibility is threatening them with the disclosure of their participation in the warp speed program

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

... There is no obligation for prayer, fasting, and zakat on a 9 year old. That alone should be a slam dunk against it. Yet, a 9 year old can be called mother of believers?

 

[S.Y.A]

... There is no obligation for prayer, fasting, and zakat on a 9 year old. That alone should be a slam dunk against it. Yet, a 9 year old can be called mother of believers?

there is obligation if they hit puberty, which is minimum 9 years for girls. read up on it. enjoy.
again, stop applying your understanding to things that you have zero knowledge of.

what you are claiming as common sense doesnt apply to that era. simple as that. you are applying modern morals to that era and looking through that lens. stop being so brainwashed by the west that you start rejecting and trying to bend your own religion to meet their sensibilities.

 

[Zarvan]

Leadership of Muslim countries lost their balls long ago. Otherwise, best solution for these issues is intelligence agencies of Muslim countries adopting MOSSAD tactics. You know what I mean. No need to take credit just give credit to Al Qaeda or ISIS or some other organization.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

there is obligation if they hit puberty, which is minimum 9 years. read up on it. enjoy.

also, there is minimum age limit for marriage, so yes, she can be called mother of believers. again, stop applying your understanding to things that you have zero knowledge of.

Accountability begins at mental maturity which is adulthood. It is obviously a LIE to call puberty, adulthood. Otherwise, there would not be need to have a separate word called puberty, if it meant the same as adulthood. Humans cannot be children one day, and adults the next day. Puberty is a growing period, physically and mentally. This is objective, self-evident truth, reflected in the Quran as well.

 

[Areesh]

Agreed. And some Hadiths too. Like the ones that claim Muhammed slept with Aisha underage.

@waz @LeGenD

Look what this murtad pig is saying and trying to change the topic

When this suar would be kicked out of this forum?