Swach Bharat closing in on 80%, doubling coverage from start

[Shankranthi]

Well, Modi may be better than others when it came to development but he is very weak when it came to National security and foreign policy.

So far he seems to be doing OK.

Can you provide any specific example of his "weakness" ?

Otherwise, everyone is entitled to their Opinion.

 

[PurpleStone]

So far he seems to be doing OK.

Can you provide any specific example of his "weakness" ?

Otherwise, everyone is entitled to their Opinion.

1) Allowing GMO food into India

2) Signing Paris accord without any commitment from the Developed countries

3) Agreeing to liability clause for the Nuclear deal

4) Signed LSA and in the process of signing other foundational agreements

5) Signing Rafale deal with no ToT

6) No increase in CAPEX for defense forces

7) Cancelling FGFA under US pressure

8) Not able to close the deal on S-400 even as China is inducting S-400

9) Relenting on Pharma IPR issue

Edit: Added point 9

 

[Shankranthi]

1) Allowing GMO food into India

Can you be more specific ? Are you talking about the WTO decision regarding chicken legs from the US ?

2) Signing Paris accord without any commitment from the Developed countries.

It was done because that was in our best interest. It helped us boost our solar power production and form a solar energy alliance.

3) Agreeing to liability clause for the Nuclear deal

This I agree, but it has not diluted India's position since its still high enough to keep Westinghouse and General Electric from setting up plants in India.

4) Signed LSA and in the process of signing other foundational agreements

We modified the LEMOA which was dangerous into the LSA which works in our favour and gives us access and bases in the SCS. How is that a bad thing ?

5) Signing Rafale deal with no ToT

Again. We did sign Rafale deal WITH ToT. Just not the ToT the IAF wanted, we got a better deal than some screw driver tech.

6) No increase in CAPEX for defense forces

That is prudent financial planning. Still the defence expenditure has been rising consistently and the Defence moral is way up due to the new OROP agreements.

7) Cancelling FGFA under US pressure

Russia offered us a lemon. It had very little to do with US pressure. IAF was always unhappy with the FGFA.

8) Not able to close the deal on S-400 even as China is inducting S-400

This is true and in my opinion is the only relevant point so far. Modi has failed to engage successfully with Russia and this has pushed the Russians closer to china. But in my view, that was inevitable. Best Modi could have done was to slow down that process.

But MOdi did manage to get India into the SCO and that too on Russian insitance.

 

[PurpleStone]

Can you be more specific ? Are you talking about the WTO decision regarding chicken legs from the US ?

Monsanto’s Man in India

https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/27/monsantos-man-in-india/

Scientists write to PM Modi against Genetically Modified Mustard

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...nst-genetically-modified-mustard-1625067.html

It was done because that was in our best interest. It helped us boost our solar power production and form a solar energy alliance.

We could have formed the solar alliance even without signing the Paris deal. India gave a commitment by signing the deal while in return there is no commitment from the West. That is crux of the problem.

We modified the LEMOA which was dangerous into the LSA which works in our favour and gives us access and bases in the SCS. How is that a bad thing ?

It's bad because it gives an excuse to China that US and India are colluding against China while the fact is they are not. It also helps US to create a wedge between India and China. The reality is that US will not step in to save India in a Indo-China war. The other agreements being signed are even worse as India would be forced to change it communication protocols and use NATO equipment.

Again. We did sign Rafale deal WITH ToT. Just not the ToT the IAF wanted, we got a better deal than some screw driver tech.

There is NO ToT in the deal just offsets which is mandated like any other deal. Also, why newbie in aviation as partner? If Rafale has misgivings about HAL, they could have been asked to partner with someone like Tata with aviation experience to partner with instead of a rookie like Reliance.

That is prudent financial planning. Still the defence expenditure has been rising consistently and the Defence moral is way up due to the new OROP agreements.

The total increase in defense budget means nothing. As a % of GDP it did not increase while OROP taking away all the increases. There is NO increase for CAPEX when India is struggling to catch up with China.

 

[Shankranthi]

Monsanto’s Man in India

https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/27/monsantos-man-in-india/

Scientists write to PM Modi against Genetically Modified Mustard

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...nst-genetically-modified-mustard-1625067.html

It was the CONgress govt. who agreed to allow GM crops into India JUST before the elections.

Moily’s approval of GMO field trials

Anti Science, Anti farmer, Anti Democracy, and Anti people’s Seed and Food Sovereignty

By Dr. Vandana Shiva, 28th February 2014

Media Release
Mr Moily, India’s Oil Minister, who is also India’s new Environment Minister, did what he was appointed to do – Approve field trials of 200 GMOs, of wheat, rice, corn, cotton produced by companies like Monsanto, Mahyco, Bayer, BASF in one fell swoop.


In fact I knew they would do this a good 2 year earlier, because one of the top man in one of these top GM company is my close friend and he had told me that a deal was struck with the congress govt. to allow for GM into India and they would do it just before the 2014 elections.

It was the RSS pressure that made the Modi govt. put an end to this Field trials of the GM crops.

2014: https://www.firstpost.com/politics/rss-pressure-gm-crops-good-india-1641211.html

2017: http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...r/30/rss-dries-up-gm-crops-issue-1599283.html

We could have formed the solar alliance even without signing the Paris deal. India gave a commitment by signing the deal while in return there is no commitment from the West. That is crux of the problem.

Those were already our internal commitment, we just made it public and put it out there to give us global credit.

It was a great move by Modi. It made space for the world to view India in a leadership role w.r.t the Environmental problems and we filled the gap vacated by the US and China. It was a great move.

 

[PurpleStone]

Russia offered us a lemon. It had very little to do with US pressure. IAF was always unhappy with the FGFA.

And that "LEMON" is better than anything that is on offer to India. The correlation of cancelling FGFA in favor of buying F-35 post 2030 is going to be the biggest blunder in India military procurement history. India has given away a bird in hand for the one in the bush which takes more than decade to travel.

 

[randomradio]

Well, Modi may be better than others when it came to development but he is very weak when it came to National security and foreign policy.

The opposite. The public acknowledgment of the surgical strikes and the way the Doklam situation was handled was proof of that.

 

[PurpleStone]

It was the CONgress govt. who agreed to allow GM crops into India JUST before the elections.

Moily’s approval of GMO field trials

Anti Science, Anti farmer, Anti Democracy, and Anti people’s Seed and Food Sovereignty

By Dr. Vandana Shiva, 28th February 2014

Media Release
Mr Moily, India’s Oil Minister, who is also India’s new Environment Minister, did what he was appointed to do – Approve field trials of 200 GMOs, of wheat, rice, corn, cotton produced by companies like Monsanto, Mahyco, Bayer, BASF in one fell swoop.


In fact I knew they would do this a good 2 year earlier, because one of the top man in one of these top GM company is my close friend and he had told me that a deal was struck with the congress govt. to allow for GM into India and they would do it just before the 2014 elections.

It was the RSS pressure that made the Modi govt. put an end to this Field trials of the GM crops.

2014: https://www.firstpost.com/politics/rss-pressure-gm-crops-good-india-1641211.html

2017: http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...r/30/rss-dries-up-gm-crops-issue-1599283.html

I know that Congress started it but Modi expedited it while claiming to be nationalist. Again, the push back is more of a tactical retreat than strategic. The retreat was due to non-agreement of the terms than concern for the good health of India public and that is bothering to say the least.

Those were already our internal commitment, we just made it public and put it out there to give us global credit.

It was a great move by Modi. It made space for the world to view India in a leadership role w.r.t the Environmental problems and we filled the gap vacated by the US and China. It was a great move.

Again, India could have done that without giving any commitment. A commitment is set in stone and India is now obligated. This was a one sided commitment with no quid pro quo. That was a bad deal. Do not get me wrong I am a big supporter of Solar and other renewable energies but India could have done what it is doing now without giving a solemn commitment.

 

[Shankranthi]

It's bad because it gives an excuse to China that US and India are colluding against China while the fact is they are not. It also helps US to create a wedge between India and China. The reality is that US will not step in to save India in a Indo-China war. The other agreements being signed are even worse as India would be forced to change it communication protocols and use NATO equipment.

That is irrelevant since China always thinks strategically and will any play the game to corner us, irrespective of what we do.

It's foolish and Naive to think that it's our actions that somehow guide Chinese actions

We do not need US to step in to "save" India since we can pretty much do that of our own. In fact, its the US which needs India to help prop up its role as a global policeman on which rests its entire currency and hence its economy.

So far no other agreements have been signed, so it's dishonest to point at into the future and cry foul.

In fact, Modi has done well to force China to engage with us and work to resolve issues with us on a priority.

There is NO ToT in the deal just offsets which is mandated like any other deal. Also, why newbie in aviation as partner? If Rafale has misgivings about HAL, they could have been asked to partner with someone like Tata with aviation experience to partner with instead of a rookie like Reliance.

Its for Dassault to decide who their partners are going to be, its not for you to decide and they are answerable to their shareholders.

Such rhetorics is good for playing to the idiots gallery but will certainly not fly with me or any half intelligent poster.

This is the list of Rafale partners in India.

THIS is the official GoI response made in parliament regarding te ToT.

“The quantum of offsets in the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for 36 Rafale fighter jets is 50 per cent, which includes investments in terms of Transfer of Technology (ToT) for manufacture and maintenance of eligible products and services. The current offsets policy of the Defence Procurement permits the vendors to provide details of their Indian Offset Partners (IOP) either at the time of seeking offset credits or one year prior to discharge of offset obligations. Vendor/Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM) is free to select his Indian Offset Partner.”

The total increase in defense budget means nothing. As a % of GDP it did not increase while OROP taking away all the increases. There is NO increase for CAPEX when India is struggling to catch up with China.

We need to catch up with China economically, not militarily. That is more important for our long term security. THat is why we now have agreements with the US that will help us focus on the economy while we outsource some of our worries about CHina.

Meanwhile our defense spending has seen a healthy jump, compared to the CONgress rule.

And that "LEMON" is better than anything that is on offer to India. The correlation of cancelling FGFA in favor of buying F-35 post 2030 is going to be the biggest blunder in India military procurement history. India has given away a bird in hand for the one in the bush which takes more than decade to travel.

And that is just speculation with ZERO evidence to support that claim.

IAF has already clarified it has no plans for the F 35 so that again is a non issue.

India is banking on the LCA and the MCA for the future.

I know that Congress started it but Modi expedited it while claiming to be nationalist. Again, the push back is more of a tactical retreat than strategic. The retreat was due to non-agreement of the terms than concern for the good health of India public and that is bothering to say the least.

Yes, I too was concerned when the Modi govt. restarted the GM trials after stopping it . But my faith is now restored since they have been stopped again due to RSS insistence.

You are free to speculate if it was a "tactical retreat" or "strategic", such speculations are purely guided by your prejudices and bias. I don't really care WHY they do it, as long as they do the right thing.

Again, India could have done that without giving any commitment. A commitment is set in stone and India is now obligated. This was a one sided commitment with no quid pro quo. That was a bad deal. Do not get me wrong I am a big supporter of Solar and other renewable energies but India could have done what it is doing now without giving a solemn commitment.

A commitment gives us global standing as a DOER. It gives us a platform to demonstrate our leadership. That is the price anyone pay for leadership and there are always benefits for being a Leader. It gives you power to guide policy and public policy towards your end goals.

 

[PurpleStone]

The opposite. The public acknowledgment of the surgical strikes and the way the Doklam situation was handled was proof of that.

Yeah. You can take that crap to the emotional idiots.

Do you know the first acts done Modi on day one after taking over as PM?

1) Allow reliance to buy half of Indian media

Reliance Takes Over Network18: Is This The Death Of Media Independence?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/meghab...the-death-of-media-independence/#62c58f5365c1

2) Give away on Pharma IPR issue

Why did PM Modi agree to give away India’s patent sovereignty to Americans?

https://www.firstpost.com/india/why...-patent-sovereignty-to-americans-1746153.html

Who Gains from the Modi Government's Intellectual Property Rights Policy?

https://thewire.in/economy/who-gains-from-the-modi-governments-intellectual-property-rights-policy

Despite Modi's New IPR Policy, US Continues to Cry Foul Over Indian Laws

https://thewire.in/external-affairs...cautionary-pessimism-continues-washington-d-c

 

[randomradio]

India is banking on the LCA and the MCA for the future.

LCA, MCA and AMCA.

Just a heads up, the guy ain't Indian, he's a false-flagger.

Yeah. You can take that crap to the emotional idiots.

Do you know the first acts done Modi on day one after taking over as PM?

1) Allow reliance to buy half of Indian media

Reliance Takes Over Network18: Is This The Death Of Media Independence?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/meghab...the-death-of-media-independence/#62c58f5365c1

News18?

2) Give away on Pharma IPR issue

Why did PM Modi agree to give away India’s patent sovereignty to Americans?

https://www.firstpost.com/india/why...-patent-sovereignty-to-americans-1746153.html

Who Gains from the Modi Government's Intellectual Property Rights Policy?

https://thewire.in/economy/who-gains-from-the-modi-governments-intellectual-property-rights-policy

Despite Modi's New IPR Policy, US Continues to Cry Foul Over Indian Laws

https://thewire.in/external-affairs...cautionary-pessimism-continues-washington-d-c

I doubt you know anything about this topic.

 

[Shankranthi]

LCA, MCA and AMCA.

Just a heads up, the guy ain't Indian, he's a false-flagger.

Possibly, but as long as he keeps the discussion sensible, I have no problems with his personal quirks and beliefs or even prejudices.

 

[randomradio]

Possibly, but as long as he keeps the discussion sensible, I have no problems with his personal quirks and beliefs or even prejudices.

Of course, I have no intention of stopping your discussion. I was just pointing out where his quirks come from, they were not made in India.

 

[PurpleStone]

LCA, MCA and AMCA.

Just a heads up, the guy ain't Indian, he's a false-flagger.

Of course, I have no intention of stopping your discussion. I was just pointing out where his quirks come from, they were not made in India.

I do not fall for slandering.. keep going..

Possibly, but as long as he keeps the discussion sensible, I have no problems with his personal quirks and beliefs or even prejudices.

What is your view on Modi relenting on IPR issue?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/swac...verage-from-start.550497/page-3#post-10453944

Possibly, but as long as he keeps the discussion sensible, I have no problems with his personal quirks and beliefs or even prejudices.

@randomradio is just sore that I rebutted him point by point here.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rip-...ter-what-happened.555944/page-2#post-10451662

@Shankranthi I have added Relenting on IPR issue as point 9 here.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/swac...verage-from-start.550497/page-3#post-10453677

 

[Shankranthi]

What is your view on Modi relenting on IPR issue?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/swac...verage-from-start.550497/page-3#post-10453944

I have no views on the high-level Intellectual Property (IP) Working Group.

It's for you to show me all the bad things it has done since 2014. Can you list a few ?