Sunnis refused to identify Shias in front of terrorists-Babusar killings

[Riyadh Haque]

Yaar are you Wahabbi? Let me enlighten you.............

....Deobandi Islam....

......They claim to follow Hanafi sect but all their literature and to a much larger degree their actions are Wahabbi/Salafi inspired.

Shaykh Tauseef ur-Rehman Rashdi, who is a famous Pakistani Salafi Preacher, states that Barelvis & Deobandis are both equally full Bidah, Shirk, Kufr. I think that Salafis are equal-opportunity takfiris--they will spare no one.

You can hear his arguments against what he feels are ridiculous & superstitious beliefs of the Barelvi (1st half of lecture) and Deobandi (2nd half of lecture) Ulema:

Ulama e Barelvi or Deoband k Mushtarka Aqaid By Shaykh Tauseef Ur Rehman Part 1 - YouTube

 

[Riyadh Haque]

Does the Hanafi say killing innocents is halal? I find that hard to believe.

....... Forbidding killing innocents is the very basic teaching of Islam that all Muslims and Sunnis in specific adhere to from all schools.

Everyone seems to be using this word "innocents" somewhat freely. But what does this word really imply? Let is examine the situation carefully:

(1) The Militants consider the Shia to be Apostates (Murtad, Rafawid etc).

(2) Apostates are not "innocent" in Islam.

(3) After Shirk, apostacy is one of the worst crimes in the eyes of God.

(3) The punishment for Apostacy under Shariah is Death (Wajib Al Qatl).

And this exactly what is happening. So why is everyone now so surprised? Didn't anyone see this coming in Pakistan?

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Everyone seems to be using this word "innocents" somewhat freely. But what does this word really imply? Let is examine the situation carefully:

(1) The Militants consider the Shia to be Apostates (Murtad, Rafawid etc).

(2) Apostates are not "innocent" in Islam.

(3) After Shirk, apostacy is one of the worst crimes in the eyes of God.

(3) The punishment for Apostacy under Shariah is Death (Wajib Al Qatl).

And this exactly what is happening. So why is everyone now so surprised? Didn't anyone see this coming in Pakistan?

This needs a lengthy discussion and people who know about these details. I don't so I will abstain. All I know is that those militant are not the ones who are supposed to perform Sharia law according to the teaching of Islam which forbid disobeying the ruler who happens to be the president. So, they are doing those things on their own.

 

[Abii]

Mosa said [shias should be burned] out of anger and I know that we don't have to justify that , and I challenge you to come with one single word that prove I said such things about Shea. I hate their disloyalty to their countries (some of them). And I believe they will get back to serve their countries when Iranian Mullahs get kicked out. They are being used and deceived. However, you are not here to categorize who is Muslim or not, with all due respect, you are from a minority who has no right whatsoever to question the ones who represent Islam of their Islam. Why aren't Shea being slaughtered in KSA? And guess what, Sunnah in Iran are the ones who are being hanged up in public streets. You are ruled by a terrorist disgusting regime. Never ever question others Islam, you are not in a position to say that.

drivel of a future suicide bomber.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

drivel of a future suicide bomber.

Are you sure you are in Canada?
Seriously, you need help.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Obey the Ruler? Which ruler, what rule?

Pakistan has been a lawless country for 60 years now. The constitution has been kicked around like a football. There have been so many insane amendments that the constitution now contradicts itself so much that it is essentially beyond repair. The Army keeps toppling the Government every now and then. One ruler was even hanged by the Army. The Pakistani airforce once threatened to bomb the Pakistani Army. 4 different rulers have been killed by secret agencies and their murders are still unsolved. No one pays any taxes. No one even stops for the red-light at traffic signals (where they exist).

Pakistan is like the Wild West. Everybody is shooting guns in the air. Elections are being rigged. Political favor is bought & sold in the sheep market. Everybody who is somebody has his own heavily armed militia. Some people even have their own private jails & prison. The next military coup is always just around the corner.....

Does this sound like a country where anybody might "obey" anyone else?

Or does it sound like the World's Greatest Example of a Free-for-all, Anything-goes, Who-cares State?

Very sad indeed, I hope Pakistan recovers soon. However, I believe that Pakistan is in dire need of a strong leader, most of the previous ones were resilient and hesitant to take a real action. And he alone should have the power, and the army shouldn't intervene in politics.

 

[KingMamba]

According to this Jordanians follow Hanafi school! There are four schools in Sunni Islam, they have the same beliefs but there are minor differences, like Hijab for instance, one school says it's ok not to cover the face and the another says it must be covered. Forbidding killing innocents is the very basic teaching of Islam that all Muslims and Sunnis in specific adhere to from all schools.

Look at the Saudis that shows you their perversion they are the smallest branch mainly restricted to their little peninsula yet they have spread their message with oil money and caused the most damage to Islam.

Shaykh Tauseef ur-Rehman Rashdi, who is a famous Pakistani Salafi Preacher, states that Barelvis & Deobandis are both equally full Bidah, Shirk, Kufr. I think that Salafis are equal-opportunity takfiris--they will spare no one.

You can hear his arguments against what he feels are ridiculous & superstitious beliefs of the Barelvi (1st half of lecture) and Deobandi (2nd half of lecture) Ulema:

Ulama e Barelvi or Deoband k Mushtarka Aqaid By Shaykh Tauseef Ur Rehman Part 1 - YouTube

Salafis will spare no one, when they are done labeling the rest of Muslim society as kaffir they will turn on one another.

 

[KingMamba]

Yup..I am !

The Deobandi Movement has its origins in the teachings of Shah Waliullah who himself lived during the same period as Abdul Wahab ! There is nothing that has gone before my scrutiny that suggests that the Deobandi Movement was significantly inspired or influenced by Hanbali Theologians from Arabia and that they are anything but predominantly Hanfi Muslims !

The Global Security link that you posted hasn't mentioned a single 'reference' to substantiate that claim ! As for the 'Encyclopedia' reference it is so because both the Deobandi Movement as well as the Barelvi Movement and the Wahabi Movement were reformist in nature and so it maybe so that they share similar traits with each other amongst many other fundamental differences for example the Wahabi Movement shuns Taqlid and instead asks for reinterpreting Islam in the light of the Koran and the Sunnah instead of imitating the sayings or doings of the Muslim Scholars of ages past and present. Both the Deobandi and the Barelvi stream, to the best of my knowledge, embrace Taqlid !

Having said that I firmly believe that the words 'Wahabi or Salafis' have become a dirty word and Saudi Arabia unjustly targeted for the ills in the Muslim World when neither the Taliban nor the Al Qaeeda are Salafis/Wahabis; the former are Deobandis and the latter are followers of Syed Qutub's teachings. Even here in Pakistan some of the most vocal supporters of the blasphemy law and advocating severe punishment against any who'd, in their opinion, blaspheme against the Prophet (PBUH) aren't Wahabis (or Ahle-Hadith) or Deobandis but rather Barelvis ! I'm sure KSA has a lot of things that she does wrong, as does any country, and I'm sure that there is a lot of abuse of Salafism/Wahabism, as there is of every creed, but neither KSA's nor Wahabism's crimes or shortcomings *choose your pick* are any worse off than our own...perhaps even less and yet we have blame them and their creed unreservedly without any evidence whatsoever !

Evidence?? The evidence is in the pudding per say, where was all this unabated violence and killings in Pakistan before Zia imported his version of Islam (he was a Wahhabi) to Pakistan and used its writ to establish laws like the blasphemy law?? Before the Saudi madarsas opened up people could openly claim to be Atheists in Pakisan and people would just laugh it off, today I dare an atheist to try something like that in Pakistan. You want to dumb the blame on Barelvis but their influence is nothing compared to the influence of Salafis (they do not have oil money backing them up). Not to say all Salafis are wrong doers I know there are people like you and Raz who are Wahabbis but do not engage in stupidity heck even my grandmother is an admitted Wahabbi.

 

[Rank]

I used to be live in KArachi more thn 12 years ... thn in Lahore and now from past many years in Rawalpindi/Islamabad. Frankly speaking i have never eva seen any kind of Shia Sunni, Pathan Punjabi, Punjabi/Pathan Mohajir issues nonsense bullshits..

That is why i always say this Shia Suni, Pathan/Punjabi/Balochi/Mohajir issue only made by Media (Who actually funded by Americans AID - already admitted by Media people) and the parties.

THERE IS NO ****** Issue like this in Pakistan. I have many fans/friends who are balochi, Pathan, Punjabi, Mohajir.... Shia etc etc I have never seen any kind of this non-sense in my life.... that is way IMO its totally Artificial issue and created by Foreign intel in Pakistan like Black-water/CIA etc

 

[pak-marine]

I challenge you to come with one single word that prove I said such things about Shea. I hate their disloyalty to their countries (some of them). And I believe they will get back to serve their countries when Iranian Mullahs get kicked out..

WTF are you on about here ? you arabs and iranians keep draging your retard religious arguments & issues btw us this thread is about an act of heroism by some Pakistani men who stood up for their country men and lost their lives as a result of it no such examples are found in your region unfortunately. Also who the f""K are you to call shias disloyal to their countries ??

 

[W.11]

This is the need of the hour. We need unity and this news actually made me feel proud that no matter what, we still have a hope of a better future

i think indian trained terrorists need to be sorted out, i think even in 90s when there was a sunni shia thing going on but we never heard the news of shia target killing

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

i think indian trained terrorists need to be sorted out, i think even in 90s when there was a sunni shia thing going on but we never heard the news of shia target killing

What is with your avatar!?

WTF are you on about here ? you arabs and iranians keep draging your retard religious arguments & issues btw us this thread is about an act of heroism by some Pakistani men who stood up for their country men and lost their lives as a result of it no such examples are found in your region unfortunately. Also who the f""K are you to call shias disloyal to their countries ??

What do you want from me? Tell your friends to get the hell off my back with accusing us of calling for Shea killing!? I am not going to justify myself anymore.

 

[Manticore]

Stick to the topic guys

 

[INDIC]

i think indian trained terrorists need to be sorted out, i think even in 90s when there was a sunni shia thing going on but we never heard the news of shia target killing

Which militant organization is supported by India to kill Shias and any basis for your accusations.

 

[Mani2020]

These are bloody un-educated people who even dont know about the A,B,C of our religion, what our religion teaches and promote instead they go against the religious teachings just to oblige some fake mullah