Sukhoi SU-30 Carnage in Ukraine!

[walterbibikow]

Ok. My claim of shooting a SU30MKI is false. What about your media? Why did they confirm an SU30 was shot by Pakistan? And why there are 3, 4 videos from Indian Illegally occupied Kashmir of locals clearly saying an Indian jet went to Pakistani territory and immediately came back in flames and just fell inside IOK behind their houses?
You are deliberately trying to divert attention from those videos. It will not work here.
DG ISPR clearly said he got information from two sources that a pilot was captured and admitted in CMH which caused confusion for a very short period that there were 2 pilots, later it appeared it was the same pilot. And why US said their count of F16 was showing nothing less in PAF inventory?
Plus you said ''Among the 11 su30s one was successfully repaired and overhauled by HAL'', so it means now you needed 10 SU30mki only. So why give an order of 12 Su mki? does it mean 2 SU30mki were shot that day? That is a strange answer from your side.

Forget the PAF’s outrageous claim of downing a Su-30 MKI, the Pakistani Government couldn’t even defend their false downing of F-16 claim. First I’ll dissect why it’s impossible and incongruous with any non-circumstantial data about the incident that a Su-30 MKI was downed. To begin with, PAF operates the AIM-120C-5 off their F-16s as its BVR missile. This missile has a range of around 105 Kilometers.

PAF jets on the day of Operation Swift Retort, crossed LOC from around Kotli, Azad Kashmir. Kotli is situated at a distance of around 105 Kilometers from Srinagar AFS.

Now there is another aspect of BVR fighting which is called a missile’s MAR (Minimum Abort Range). The MAR of a missile is the range at which the aircraft on which the missile has been fired on can outrun the missile by defensive maneuvers alone. Applying the same fact here, we can understand how a simple notch can lead the AIM-120C-5 fired by PAF jets off-course. Now add to this that the SU-30 MKI has an integrated jammer which effectively lowers any missile’s firing range by jamming the enemy’s radar and also that the Su-30 MKI has Thrust Vector control and canards making its super-maneuverable; it is extremely maneuverable which will be insurmountably effective in defending against a missile. The cherry on the cake is that, both PAF and Pakistan government both enunciate and maintain that no F-16 crossed the LOC. This means that there is no way that F-16 got close enough to shot at the Su-30 MKI when in its missile’s (AIM-120C-5) MAR. All the above mentioned facts point towards just one irrefutable fact that there is now way in hell the a Su-30 MKI was shot down that day and that anyone who believes this claims is an absolute dolt in areal combat.
Now that the absurd question of a Su-30 MKI being shot down is out of the picture, let’s focus on why an F-16 was shot down. The F-16s operated by PAF are ancient Block 15 variants which were procured from USA back in the 1980s. Not only do they lack an advance avionics suite but they also lacks weapon deployment capability of the F-16s operated by USAF. Below is a photo of the F-16 which allegedly shot down the IAF’s MIG-21 Bison.

Now notice how it’s a F-16BM; twin seater conversion trainer. Now Pakistan’s own media openly enunciated that 3 pilots ejected that day after the areal engagements. Proof of which is in the below video:

Now seeing how the MiG-21 wasn’t a twin seater and considering how no other aircraft was involved in the areal engagement from the IAF’s side, it’s clear that a F-16B was shot down that day. This is further corroborated by IAF’s radar images. They are attached below.

To add to the list of proofs is that when the Pakistani Armed Forces egoistically tweeted that they had recovered all the 4 four missiles carried by the MiG-21, they again made a blunder as the MiG-21 Bison has 5 hardpoints (places to carry missiles) and was scrambled from Srinagar AFS which is merely 105 Kilometers which rules out any need for an unnecessary external fuel tank on the MiG-21 Bison. Pakistani Armed Force’s tweet is attached below

I can dig up more proof cementing my argument but I believe this will suffice to shove all of Pakistan out of their dream world

 

[TopGun786]

Hahahaha..where they said ..???? as i said that Initially all media's reported about shoot down of F16 and Su 30 MKI................ but latter they regret it for these false claims including International media... But fun boys still believe..

Deep in your heart, you know you people messed up badly. I like it when Godi bois keep giving me explanations. Keep up the good work. We enjoy it every time when a bakhat comes up forward in these sort of threads.

Forget the PAF’s outrageous claim of downing a Su-30 MKI, the Pakistani Government couldn’t even defend their false downing of F-16 claim. First I’ll dissect why it’s impossible and incongruous with any non-circumstantial data about the incident that a Su-30 MKI was downed. To begin with, PAF operates the AIM-120C-5 off their F-16s as its BVR missile. This missile has a range of around 105 Kilometers.
View attachment 903942
PAF jets on the day of Operation Swift Retort, crossed LOC from around Kotli, Azad Kashmir. Kotli is situated at a distance of around 105 Kilometers from Srinagar AFS.
View attachment 903945
Now there is another aspect of BVR fighting which is called a missile’s MAR (Minimum Abort Range). The MAR of a missile is the range at which the aircraft on which the missile has been fired on can outrun the missile by defensive maneuvers alone. Applying the same fact here, we can understand how a simple notch can lead the AIM-120C-5 fired by PAF jets off-course. Now add to this that the SU-30 MKI has an integrated jammer which effectively lowers any missile’s firing range by jamming the enemy’s radar and also that the Su-30 MKI has Thrust Vector control and canards making its super-maneuverable; it is extremely maneuverable which will be insurmountably effective in defending against a missile. The cherry on the cake is that, both PAF and Pakistan government both enunciate and maintain that no F-16 crossed the LOC. This means that there is no way that F-16 got close enough to shot at the Su-30 MKI when in its missile’s (AIM-120C-5) MAR. All the above mentioned facts point towards just one irrefutable fact that there is now way in hell the a Su-30 MKI was shot down that day and that anyone who believes this claims is an absolute dolt in areal combat.
Now that the absurd question of a Su-30 MKI being shot down is out of the picture, let’s focus on why an F-16 was shot down. The F-16s operated by PAF are ancient Block 15 variants which were procured from USA back in the 1980s. Not only do they lack an advance avionics suite but they also lacks weapon deployment capability of the F-16s operated by USAF. Below is a photo of the F-16 which allegedly shot down the IAF’s MIG-21 Bison.
View attachment 903946
Now notice how it’s a F-16BM; twin seater conversion trainer. Now Pakistan’s own media openly enunciated that 3 pilots ejected that day after the areal engagements. Proof of which is in the below video:

Now seeing how the MiG-21 wasn’t a twin seater and considering how no other aircraft was involved in the areal engagement from the IAF’s side, it’s clear that a F-16B was shot down that day. This is further corroborated by IAF’s radar images. They are attached below.
View attachment 903947
To add to the list of proofs is that when the Pakistani Armed Forces egoistically tweeted that they had recovered all the 4 four missiles carried by the MiG-21, they again made a blunder as the MiG-21 Bison has 5 hardpoints (places to carry missiles) and was scrambled from Srinagar AFS which is merely 105 Kilometers which rules out any need for an unnecessary external fuel tank on the MiG-21 Bison. Pakistani Armed Force’s tweet is attached below
View attachment 903948
I can dig up more proof cementing my argument but I believe this will suffice to shove all of Pakistan out of their dream world

I suppose all those people in Indian Occupied were making false claims. It must have been a PAF F-16 that fell near their homes. IAF was so good to hide it to protect PAF from all that embarrassment. How good of IAF. We owe great gratitude to them.
And I am a Kashmiri, from the same district of Kotli where Nandu was beaten by locals. Do not try to teach me what happened that day. There was only one Nandu dropped along with parts of his jet and ejection seat.

 

[walterbibikow]

I suppose all those people in Indian Occupied were making false claims. It must have been a PAF F-16 that fell near their homes. IAF was so good to hide it to protect PAF from all that embarrassment. How good of IAF. We owe great gratitude to them.
And I am a Kashmiri, from the same district of Kotli where Nandu was beaten by locals. Do not try to teach me what happened that day. There was only one Nandu dropped along with parts of his jet and ejection seat.

Su30 mki haven't even crossed the LoC at that day. So what are you even talking about?

 

[TopGun786]

Su30 mki haven't even crossed the LoC at that day. So what are you even talking about?

Who knows? And who says? IAF? It that reliable? Then we assume local Kashmiris must be wrong.
Let me fix it for you:
That day a PAF F-16 flew from a base from inside a base in Indian-Occupied Kashmir (don't ask me how it reached there in the first place, as all this was just an 'assumption''). It tried to escape from Indian territory to Pakistan territory. Now there was a SU30, in the makeup of a PAF F-16. IAF sent orders to SU30 (in the makeup of F-16) that the ''prisoner'' must not escape. So Su30 shot the PAF F-16 tail and it immediately turned back and crashed just inside the Indian-occupied territory. Later IAF did not disclose the matter as they got pity on PAF and did not want to stain their reputation. that is what a big brother always does for a brother. Please accept my gratitude.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

One interesting aspect of it is how the IAF’s two Su-30MKIs dueled with eight PAF F-16s during the conflict. The North group of 4 F-16s engaged our Flankers, which fired 3 AIM-120C AMRAAM BVR missiles. All the missiles missed their mark. The Sukhois pushed them back, while also picking up another group of 4 F-16s and multiple inbound strike aircraft from the Southern formation. This in essence meant that the Avengers were heavily outgunned by the PAF formation carrying more advanced American BVR missiles, and in sheer numbers. A fourth AMRAAM was fired by the South Group.

By advanced mapping, it could be deduced that by that time the Su-30MKI jets were just 25-30 kilometers away from the North Group jets. This fourth AMRAAM was also evaded by the Sukhois.

IAF Flankers, instead of retreating, counterattacked in a bold move against the F-16s ignoring the high-density BVR threat from the F-16s, in all probability breaching the AMRAAM MAR to press home the R27/77 attack 25-30 km from lead PAF jets in the North Group.

This meant that the things turned out to be the other way for the PAF, the Su-30s instead of returning dashed on to the F-16s to make them come under the R-27/77 missile range. This is because the Su-30MKIs were not carrying long-range BVR missiles, and had medium-range missiles, whose range problem had to be mitigated by bringing F-16s closer. The lead North Group F-16 fighters, instead of attacking the incoming Sukhoi, went ‘COLD’ prematurely.

That is the reason for the 10 out of 12 Pakistani bombs falling well out of the range of their intended targets was because of this unexpected counterattack by the IAF fighters

this deserves a movie plot.

Su-30 counterattacks changed the direction of rivers.
reduced Nawaz Sherif platelets
caused Imran Bajwa fallout

changed the bomb targets of Mirages a
turned PAF 16s to Naswar

Discovered new branch of Bullshit through advanced mapping

turned PAF pilots into Vegans

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

this deserves a movie plot.

Su-30 counterattacks changed the direction of rivers.
reduced Nawaz Sherif platelets
caused Imran Bajwa fallout

changed the bomb targets of Mirages a
turned PAF 16s to Naswar

Discovered new branch of Bullshit through advanced mapping

turned PAF pilots into Vegans

Did Pakistan make the movie Shooting down 2 Su 30 MKi? It will be interesting to watch...

Indians will be more interested to watch on balakot air strike movie (Even if missed the target by IAF).. Since almost everyone once knows that shooting down F 16 and Su30 MKi was the part of a propaganda informational war of both the countries... It will not be get much publicity.

 

[TopGun786]

One for Eurasiantimes Indian Fanboys.

Amid ‘Sukhoi Carnage’ In Ukraine War, Indian Air Force Must Take A Cue From Russia & Upgrade Its Su-30 MKIs To SM2 Standards

Russia has lost eleven Sukhoi Su-30 fighters in Ukraine, leaving a cue for India and even China to upgrade its Su-30 MKI jets to MK2 standards

eurasiantimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Upgrading SU30 mki was always a nightmare for IAF and now when they see what happened to even upgraded Russian SU30s in Ukraine it is a whole new headache and worries for them.
The majority of IAF fleet is SU30 mki (262 in active service I believe, 11 were lost in crashes and one shot by PAF), and though even they knew this so-called raptor of the east was not up to its paper specs no it has been proved even more after the start of the Russian war.
Upgrading 272 heavyweight jet is next to impossible now especially when you know now there is little purpose to do so. The weaknesses of the Russian Su30s which are already upgraded show this clearly. And personally, I believe Russian AF is more well-trained than the incompetent IAF, yet they were severely beaten by a much weaker adversary, Ukraine.
The problem is SU30 is an old-world frame with the RCS of a Jumbo Passenger jet it is much easy to spot from hundreds of kilometers away by modern radars (both ground-based and Air based).
Their only so-called advantage was Thrust vectoring which already by time is gone almost. It was just a hype and in modern warfare, it has very little purpose, if at all.
IAF can change their engines to better ones (though still not happening) and avionics but can not change their airframes which are always the weak point.
IMO if IAF has brains they will put their resources to buy new jets (like Rafale or other indigenous/upgraded versions of Tejas) than to put their resources on SU30s.

Did Pakistan make the movie Shooting down 2 Su 30 MKi? It will be interesting to watch...

Indians will be more interested to watch on balakot air strike movie (Even if missed the target by IAF).. Since almost everyone once knows that shooting down F 16 and Su30 MKi was the part of a propaganda informational war of both the countries... It will not be get much publicity.

Seems like we do not have the capabilities of Bollywood where India takes revenge for every defeat through Akshay Kumar, Sunil Shetty, Sunny Deol, etc. Now that is a pity and believe me, we envoy you on this.

 

[adelphi]

Did Pakistan make the movie Shooting down 2 Su 30 MKi? It will be interesting to watch...

Indians will be more interested to watch on balakot air strike movie (Even if missed the target by IAF).. Since almost everyone once knows that shooting down F 16 and Su30 MKi was the part of a propaganda informational war of both the countries... It will not be get much publicity.

What's your take on Indian Govt awarding gallantry award for shooting down of an imaginary F-16 ??

 

[VkdIndian]

Pakistan didn’t feel the immediate requirement of media visit to the so called seminary at Balakot, attacked by IAF. It occurred to them after two months that media visit is a good idea to prove that there was no attack to the structure. They had all the chance to call a bluff to Indian claim by one small visit immediately. India is a liar and is always creating a narrative. What about you? You had all the chance to prove it overwhelmingly. But….

Some people claim that Hamid Mir was allowed immediately after the attack. What they wouldn’t tell is that he was allowed only at the so called bomb craters. No one was allowed inside the so called building. Why?

And I am not even talking about “doosra banda” captured and being treated at military hospital.

There are loopholes in the stories sold by both sides.

There has been no major terrorist attack after Indian retaliation, post Pulwama, is a proof that Indian Air Strikes did achieve the aim of giving a clear message about the new red line. A line that India wouldn’t allow Pakistan to cross. That is - No material support to militants in Kashmir.

There were glaring loopholes in the IAF preparedness which was brought out to the fore. Why were communications not encrypted and secure? Why was BVR edge not taken care of? Balakot, has shaken the famous India Babudom out of slumber.
Those celebrating demise of SU-30 should do it with caution. It remains a potent threat to any adversary. It couldn’t get a kill that day, since it was outranged by PAF BVRs. That doesn’t make it a bad fighter. With new BVRs and it’s phenomenal load carrying capability and good endurance, it can prove to be a mighty adversary.

SU-30 aircraft lost in a different theatre under completely different threat scenario is no reason for India to loose sleep.

 

[walterbibikow]

Upgrading SU30 mki was always a nightmare for IAF and now when they see what happened to even upgraded Russian SU30s in Ukraine it is a whole new headache and worries for them.
The majority of IAF fleet is SU30 mki (262 in active service I believe, 11 were lost in crashes and one shot by PAF), and though even they knew this so-called raptor of the east was not up to its paper specs no it has been proved even more after the start of the Russian war.
Upgrading 272 heavyweight jet is next to impossible now especially when you know now there is little purpose to do so. The weaknesses of the Russian Su30s which are already upgraded show this clearly. And personally, I believe Russian AF is more well-trained than the incompetent IAF, yet they were severely beaten by a much weaker adversary, Ukraine.
The problem is SU30 is an old-world frame with the RCS of a Jumbo Passenger jet it is much easy to spot from hundreds of kilometers away by modern radars (both ground-based and Air based).
Their only so-called advantage was Thrust vectoring which already by time is gone almost. It was just a hype and in modern warfare, it has very little purpose, if at all.
IAF can change their engines to better ones (though still not happening) and avionics but can not change their airframes which are always the weak point.
IMO if IAF has brains they will put their resources to buy new jets (like Rafale or other indigenous/upgraded versions of Tejas) than to put their resources on SU30s

You can see my post #7 for detailed information about Su30 mki

IAF to increase Sukhois armed with BrahMos supersonic cruise missile with over 500km-range

The IAF currently has 40 SU-30 MKI with BrahMos, the only supersonic cruise missile in the world.

theprint.in

HAL signed contract with BEL for 83 LCA Tejas Mk1A fighters

HAL : Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has signed a Rs 2,400 crores contract with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for the development and supply of 20 types of systems for 83 LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) Tejas Mk1A fighter aircraft programme.

currentaffairs.adda247.com

IAF boosts Su-30 aircrafts' capabilities with new over 250km strike range missile

In a significant boost for the capabilities of its Su-30 combat aircraft fleet, the Indian Air Force is equipping them with a new missile which can take down ground-based targets from a distance of over 250 kilometres. The new missile has been acquired by the Indian Air Force under emergency...

defence.pk

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

What's your take on Indian Govt awarding gallantry award for shooting down of an imaginary F-16 ??

wasn't PAF and the ministers glorify on fake shooting down of su30 MKI?

These are part of the Propaganda war, Sir

 

[PakFactor]

View attachment 903948
I can dig up more proof cementing my argument but I believe this will suffice to shove all of Pakistan out of their dream world

Were you sitting on the side of the runway in a foldable chair, counting how many missiles were hooked up to a MIG-21 pylon's?

 

[adelphi]

To add to the list of proofs is that when the Pakistani Armed Forces egoistically tweeted that they had recovered all the 4 four missiles carried by the MiG-21, they again made a blunder as the MiG-21 Bison has 5 hardpoints (places to carry missiles) and was scrambled from Srinagar AFS which is merely 105 Kilometers which rules out any need for an unnecessary external fuel tank on the MiG-21 Bison. Pakistani Armed Force’s tweet is attached below

So you are suggesting that IAF MiG-21 carried AAM on it's center pylon instead of external fuel tank which was used to down F-16 ??

 

[PakFactor]

Pakistan didn’t feel the immediate requirement of media visit to the so called seminary at Balakot, attacked by IAF. It occurred to them after two months that media visit is a good idea to prove that there was no attack to the structure. They had all the chance to call a bluff to Indian claim by one small visit immediately. India is a liar and is always creating a narrative. What about you? You had all the chance to prove it overwhelmingly. But….

Some people claim that Hamid Mir was allowed immediately after the attack. What they wouldn’t tell is that he was allowed only at the so called bomb craters. No one was allowed inside the so called building. Why?

There are loopholes in the stories sold by both sides.

There has been no major terrorist attack after Indian retaliation, post Pulwama, is a proof that Indian Air Strikes did achieve the aim of giving a clear message about the new red line. A line that India wouldn’t allow Pakistan to cross. That’s is - No material support to militants.

There were glaring loopholes in the IAF preparedness which was brought out to the fore. Why were communications not encrypted and secure? Why was BVR edge not taken care of? Balakot, has shaken the famous India Babudom out of slumber.
Those celebrating demise of SU-30 should do it with caution. It remains a potent threat to any adversary. It couldn’t get a kill that day, since it was outranged by PAF BVRs. That doesn’t make it a bad fighter. With new BVRs and it’s phenomenal load carrying capability and good endurance, it can prove to be a mighty adversary.

SU-30 aircraft lost in a different theatre under completely different threat scenario is no reason for India to loose sleep.

Al-Jazeera was at the site within two days, and Associated Press within five days. Both channels had full access to talk with civilians in the area and move about without escort from the military.

 

[walterbibikow]

Al-Jazeera was at the site within two days, and Associated Press within five days. Both channels had full access to talk with civilians in the area and move about without escort from the military.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/pakistan-denies-reuters-access-to-madarasa-targetted-by-iaf/article26471697.ece

No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed

Pakistani security officials on Thursday prevented a Reuters team from climbing a hill in northeastern Pakistan to the site of a madrasa and a group of surrounding buildings that was targeted by Indian warplanes last week.

www.reuters.com