Sufi singers under assault in Bangladesh

[Tiki Tam Tam]

That is Shab-E-Qadr and not Shab-E-Barat. Those are completely two different night.

Please read what I have stated in the post.

I am aware of the difference as is given in the post.

I have even quoted the relevant authority.

Added

I am aware it is Za’eef. (meaning Shab e Barat).

I am aware that the Qur’an ascribes the pre-eminence of Shab-e-Qad’r or Lailat-al-Qad’r.

“Verily we have sent it (The Qur’an) down in the night of Al-Qad’r (The Decree)... The night of Decree is better than a thousand months. Therein descend the angels and Ruh (the spirit) by Allah’s permission with all decrees.” (97:1-4)

 

[TopCat]

Please read what I have stated in the post.

I am aware of the difference as is given in the post.

I have even quoted the relevant authority.

Added

Well I am confused here. You were talking about Shab-E-Barat in your earlier posts which prompted me to reply but out of blue you just quoted a complete different night Shab-E-Qadr. there is no controversy regarding Shab-E-Qadr as it is mentioned in Quran.

 

[TopCat]

I
Personally, since I have not seen the Almighty, I will give way to what anyone wants to believe and not feel that they are wrong. After all, they are living their own lives and I really am not contributing to it and so who am I to interfere?

I believe that my equation with the Almighty is between the Almighty and me. I do find it uncomfortable to have a conduit to tell me what is right and what is wrong.

Why are you feeling pressured? Islam does not dictate anybody to accept it rather its a sin to force, lure, or reward anybody to convert to Islam. Thats why the missionarie concepts are avoided in Islam. No service could be provided with an intention to convert anybody. But everybody as muslim has a duty to convey the message of Islam to non muslims.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Yes, I was talking of Shab e Barat initially and asked Al Zakira to explain if all the Muslims of the sub continent and elsewhere were wrong to celebrate this.

I also mentioned that the Wahabis found praying at shrines and graves unIslamic. And therefore, was Shab e Barat a violation of the religious code and hence all those from the subcontinent who prayed at the graves during this time were unIslamic.

He went off to inform that it was shirk etc at the Ajmer Sharif darga or some such stuff.

and then to his question that nowhere in the Quaran was Shab e Barat was mentioned, to let him know I am aware of it, I mentioned Shab-e-Qad’r when you came in with your post.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Why are you feeling pressured? Islam does not dictate anybody to accept it rather its a sin to force, lure, or reward anybody to convert to Islam. Thats why the missionarie concepts are avoided in Islam. No service could be provided with an intention to convert anybody. But everybody as muslim has a duty to convey the message of Islam to non muslims.

What makes you feel I am pressured?

In fact, being of no religion I am the most relieved from all pressures that religion imposes.

Skies, if I am not mistaken, mentioned that he was feeling pressured (I don't remember what was the cause).

Well, if a Muslim has a duty to convey the message of Islam to non Muslim, then to be fair and have a level playing ground, I don't think one should grudge a Christian in letting non Christians know about Christianity.

 

[TopCat]

Yes, I was talking of Shab e Barat initially and asked Al Zakira to explain if all the Muslims of the sub continent and elsewhere were wrong to celebrate this.

Ok i think you know the answer now.

I also mentioned that the Wahabis found praying at shrines and graves unIslamic. And therefore, was Shab e Barat a violation of the religious code and hence all those from the subcontinent who prayed at the graves during this time were unIslamic.

Well you can only pray to God for anything and there is no other even the Prophet Mohammed (PUH) had the capacity to give anything to anybody. So anybody going to a shrine with an intention of pryaing or asking something from that Sufi or Dargah is infact committing Shirk (means making some man as par with God). But anybody can do Jiarat (Jiarat means asking mercy from God for that person) while he was passing by that Majar or grave. Thats Islam and nothing to do with Wahabis.

 

[TopCat]

Well, if a Muslim has a duty to convey the message of Islam to non Muslim, then to be fair and have a level playing ground, I don't think one should grudge a Christian in letting non Christians know about Christianity.

As you said level playing field and I completley agree with that. As Islam does not provide monetary benifits or other benifits to the converts, so Islam may take it as offensive when some other religion induldge to that.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Ok i think you know the answer now.


Well you can only pray to God for anything and there is no other even the Prophet Mohammed (PUH) had the capacity to give anything to anybody. So anybody going to a shrine with an intention of pryaing or asking something from that Sufi or Dargah is infact committing Shirk (means making some man as par with God). But anybody can do Jiarat (Jiarat means asking mercy from God for that person) while he was passing by that Majar or grave. Thats Islam and nothing to do with Wahabis.

I knew the answer long before in so far as the scriptures were concerned.

However, I wanted to know al Zakira's views on Shab e Barat which is widely celebrated in the subcontinent by the Muslims and yet, it is against the tenets of Wahabism since his intolerance to everything was indicating a Wahabi strain of ideology.

I think I will give discussing religion a break since I do not want to tread on dangerous ground.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

As you said level playing field and I completley agree with that. As Islam does not provide monetary benifits or other benifits to the converts, so Islam may take it as offensive when some other religion induldge to that.

I reserve my comment on that since it is not so in India.

Added

May see this from one of the threads here:

No Compulsion in Religion? Convert or Go to Hell: Tablighis Tell non-Muslim Patients at Govt. Hospitals
http://newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamIjtihadRethinkingIslam_1.aspx?ArticleID=4452

 

[Al-zakir]

I can take you on on Islam without a problem since you appear to have a Wahabi line of approach to Islam.

However, I will not get baited to enter into the discourse since I can realise your disingenuous game plan.

No game plan here? It was merely a question. If I know fact that no Kwaza baba can help no one expect Allah then what is reason for me to go there. I have hear some people go to this so called grave yard and ask: ya kawza baba give a son or help to heal and other things.

Wahabi or hanafi but there words end when it controdict with Quran and sahi hadis e nabi(sws).

 

[TopCat]

I reserve my comment on that since it is not so in India.

Added

May see this from one of the threads here:

No Compulsion in Religion? Convert or Go to Hell: Tablighis Tell non-Muslim Patients at Govt. Hospitals
NewAgeIslam.com: Ijtihad, Rethinking Islam; No Compulsion in Religion? Convert or Go to Hell: Tablighis Tell non-Muslim Patients at Govt. Hospitals

Tabligs are such a pain in the butt sometimes. Some of them just dont know where to draw the lines. Some of them just dont know Islam.

 

[saleen_s7]

Whats the difference between Taslima Nasreen and the above post? Don't you people think that being a hypocrite is just lame?

I beg to differ here. I have read some of the books by both of the authors, and the level of intellectual between this people are overwhelming. Arundhati Roy is not babbling , matter of fact she knows what she's talking about unlike Tasleema nasreen. I do strongly think Arundati Roy has some significant point.
Anyways, I'm guessing most Indians would think I am prejudiced towards Taslima Nasreen but ask any independent, intellectual followers and you will get your answers.

 

[Al-zakir]

Iajdani, you have humble me on this thread. So please accept my apology for unwanted comments in the past however still will disagree with you when comes ideology.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Tabligs are such a pain in the butt sometimes. Some of them just dont know where to draw the lines. Some of them just dont know Islam.

Please this is a typical line taken to avoid a knotty issue.

They have a Muslim name, but they are not Muslims because the actions are unIslamic.

These acts are unIslamic and so they are not Muslim.

Sorry, everyone who is born or converted to Islam is a Muslim.

That is the real truth.

Remainder is escapism!

How is a man not a Muslim, if he prays five times a day, gives his zakat, obey all the laws of Islam and then, in his spare time chucks a bomb, because he thinks that is his duty to Islam because it is jihad, how is that suddenly he is not taken to be a Muslim?

Taken by whom not to be a Muslim? By someone who assumes grandiloquently, by self suggestion, that he is a Muslim and the other chap is not?

If the Tabligis don't know Islam, I wonder who does!

Their job is to convert and if they don't know the religion, then what are they to teach to get converts?

 

[Al-zakir]

There is a narration in Tirmidhi.

Notwithstanding, are you stating that Shab e Barat is unIslamic and is not sanctioned by the religion and that is a pre Islamic pagan ritual?

Are you suggesting that the millions of Muslim of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan are indulging in non Islamic rituals?

If you are right, then could you explain as to why they celebrate Shab e Barat and how come the Maulavis have not interceded?

Islam is a universal concept. There is no room for an individual or group to invent somethong in the name of Islam. It could be possible that some people has started this Shab e barat to cover the real shab e qadr or it may have been a honest mistake. Allah knows it all.

So, people of subcontinent has been observing this as significant night but, since now we know that there is no signifance to this night over any other night then it is the responsibility of all Muslim to accept the truth and forget about the misinformation.

Many scholors has been denouncing shab e barat and told the ummah to observe Shab e qadr but people like you would love to call them Wahabi in a bad manner.

We all pray to Allah and Quran is his words. No scholors or group can overwrite the words of Quran. I notice you have good knowlege of Islam so why are so reluctant to accept the words of Allah(s.w.t)