Stop maligning the military

[Rain]

So the poor people of Pakistan should get ready for another wave of blood bath because Pakistan Army is going to do America's bidding?

Escaping from war is not a solution, we have to face it, we have to make sacrifices, we have to fight it. we cant let those thugs wearing Cloak of Islam to ruin our country and people. And Believe me they not stop at any thing, they are a curse and curse needs to be dealt with. These thug may pose a danger to world but they definitely a threat to Pakistan, better we realised it sooner.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Escaping from war is not a solution, we have to face it, we have to make sacrifices, we have to fight it. we cant let those thugs wearing Cloak of Islam to ruin our country and people. And Believe me they not stop at any thing, they are a curse and curse needs to be dealt with. These thug may pose a danger to world but they definitely a threat to Pakistan, better we realised it sooner.

I understand where you are coming from my friend... My only issue is this...

How much is it our own war and how much is it America's bidding??

Just recently I was corresponding with a Rt Brigadier who had written in a newspaper opposing any operations in North Waziristan because we simply dont have the resources etc... and now suddenly it seems the military is changing their minds... my question is just who is pulling the strings??... you add in the Davis affair, drone strikes stopping for a while after he was arrested... NATO aid flowing thru Pakistan into Afghanistan... stopping it for three days when our Army jawans were killed by Americans and not stopping it when tens of innocents die in drone strikes... supporting people like Karzai when he is clearly an enemy of Pakistan... where are we going with all this... who is responsible for those drone strikes that go wrong?? why are nt they punished??

If it were just a question of terrorists, I dont need to tell you that people are with the Army on that... and willing to sacrifice also...

but where does it all end?? Why is it that our tribal area so backward after decades of independence from the British that they become hotbeds of extremism?? Do Tribal people have no talents?? Can the tribal land not be put to some good use?? Do we have an exit plan?? Are we wiling to put an end to Western interference in our affairs while we deal with this Kharaji fitnah in the tribal areas?? Or is it that we will continue to see the faces of Zardari and the rest continue to rape us after we have finished off the TTP... and continue to live a life of misery under these animals who rule in the name of democracy while the common man is given no choice but to choose between evil men??

Fine... you want this to end... then lets end it once and for all... dont drag it for so long... and take the nation in confidence and tell people what is happening on the ground... dont promise them lies and give them some genuine hope for better days ahead...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

A Message to all Ghairat Brigade that includes the psedo liberals and the right wing taliban apologists very well delivered by Faisel Raza Abdi
people who are b*tching about the army should check the video in this link

http://www.defence.pk/forums/politi...rpedo-azad-adalia-must-watch.html#post1595725

 

[RazorMC]

Actually it is a tough time for Pakistan and it will remain so for quite a while.
The Pak Army may be cooperating with the US and it may even be backfiring. But the fact remains, the US is a superpower. I didn't understand why this statement from the FO was relevant. Aren't we a nuclear power? Is it even possible for the US to attack us?

The answer is that the US can attack us. It is a sad truth. They don't need to conquer us at all, just destroy our infrastructure and demoralize our people while taking out all our mineral wealth.
So why does the Pak Army seem to be cooperating? Fact is that they joined the Army to protect Pakistan and its citizens. They are willing to give up their lives to ensure our survival. That is why they have to face this tough decision of either cooperating or see their country ravaged by the US.

Yes, some people in the Army can be corrupt. But the majority of them love this country more than many of us who sit at home and talk about issues. We have to give due credit to the army.


@MBQ,
A question: If Pakistan becomes a Caliphate then is it a true Caliphate since Muslims outside Pakistan did not vote or give Bayt?
And I read a portion of the book you linked, found it informative. Thanks.

 

[muse]

Is it even possible for the US to attack us?

The answer is that the US can attack us. It is a sad truth. They don't need to conquer us at all, just destroy our infrastructure and demoralize our people while taking out all our mineral wealth.
So why does the Pak Army seem to be cooperating?

So the Pakistani armed forces cannot protect Pakistan, Pakistanis and their property from the US -- Why then do we need this huge expenditure, why do we have a military that actually cooperates with the those who are Pakistan's enemies?

Pakistan and Pakistanis need armed forces whose entire purpose is the protection of Pakistan, for this to happen, the present leadership and ethic of the armed forces as presently formed, must be allowed to pass into the dust bin of history, where it richly belongs, or to retirement in the West, same difference.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Actually it is a tough time for Pakistan and it will remain so for quite a while.
The Pak Army may be cooperating with the US and it may even be backfiring. But the fact remains, the US is a superpower. I didn't understand why this statement from the FO was relevant. Aren't we a nuclear power? Is it even possible for the US to attack us?

The answer is that the US can attack us. It is a sad truth. They don't need to conquer us at all, just destroy our infrastructure and demoralize our people while taking out all our mineral wealth.
So why does the Pak Army seem to be cooperating? Fact is that they joined the Army to protect Pakistan and its citizens. They are willing to give up their lives to ensure our survival. That is why they have to face this tough decision of either cooperating or see their country ravaged by the US.

Yes, some people in the Army can be corrupt. But the majority of them love this country more than many of us who sit at home and talk about issues. We have to give due credit to the army.


@MBQ,
A question: If Pakistan becomes a Caliphate then is it a true Caliphate since Muslims outside Pakistan did not vote or give Bayt?
And I read a portion of the book you linked, found it informative. Thanks.

Ajeeb... Pak Army is co operating with US to protect Pakistan??

Bro... you can expect to be bitten and killed when you befriend a poisonous snake... The world has moved on from the 80s when communism was an enemy... Its Islam they are up against... they have made this very clear... one should not go into denial over this issue...

As for your question... everyone does not have to give the pledge... but the pledge has to take place... if you want details you can search for this specific question, there is material available on it... according to my info the new Caliphate inshaAllah shall come simultaneously in more than one country and the Caliph will be considered the Imam for all Muslims... the rest of the Muslim countries can join later... majority of the Muslim countries regimes are almost ready to collapse now with every population hating their rulers and wanting to rid themselves of their evil grip... they shall be falling dominoes... jazakAllah Khair

 

[Xeric]

Let this be very clear that the Pakistan Army is not being dictated by the US. Yes, the military is in cooperation with the US and assists her in her fight against terrorism. Now there's a difference between assisting someone and 'allowing drone attacks' on ones land. For a final time, the military is as opposed to the drone attacks as any of you here is. If you want them to stop, well you have to ask GoP to do it. Till the time the govt doesnt asks the military to take action, the military cant bring down a drone at its own. It is the National Policy towards the drone attacks that need to be challenged, not the military's stance.

BTW, for those who blame the military for 'brokering the deal' as regards the R.Davis case, i must tell them that it was the military that told the US to back off and let the GoP handle the issue as per the dictates of the situation. Or else the US had already gone overboard in defending Davis by terming his as a diplomat.

 

[fatman17]

Let this be very clear that the Pakistan Army is not being dictated by the US. Yes, the military is in cooperation with the US and assists her in her fight against terrorism. Now there's a difference between assisting someone and 'allowing drone attacks' on ones land. For a final time, the military is as opposed to the drone attacks as any of you here is. If you want them to stop, well you have to ask GoP to do it. Till the time the govt doesnt asks the military to take action, the military cant bring down a drone at its own. It is the National Policy towards the drone attacks that need to be challenged, not the military's stance.

BTW, for those who blame the military for 'brokering the deal' as regards the R.Davis case, i must tell them that it was the military that told the US to back off and let the GoP handle the issue as per the dictates of the situation. Or else the US had already gone overboard in defending Davis by terming his as a diplomat.

xeric - unfortunately the problem lies in the 'perception' that the army still 'stirs the drink' in pakistan and the present civilian govt. is just a 'facade' created by the US/pak establishment (read army) and therefore the army is in 'cahoots' with the US on the drone policy, fata, afghanistan, india. if the army is 'front and center', then the US congress will not 'support' the 'un-demcratic' army but the current disposition is 'palatable' to them. - its a bloody f^^^^^g mess we are in!!!

 

[Hulk]

As an outsider here is what I feel. PA is still most powerful and GOP cannot make any decision unless PA agrees to it. Now PA is using democracy to its advantage by putting all blames on GOP and trying to take all credit for themselves.
Is it not the ISI providing intelligence for these targets, then how come you blame GOP.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

xeric - unfortunately the problem lies in the 'perception' that the army still 'stirs the drink' in pakistan and the present civilian govt.

well Faisal Raza Abdi has a solution for this perception. the Chief Justice should get off his chair and take suo Moto action against the Justice in Lahore and find out why Raymond Davis was let go.

invitation to all bigots ah hypocrites to watch this video and full and tell me why Pakistan Army is still to be blamed after all the sacrifices in the fight against the Taliban terrorists. and why the Justice system has failed to convict and punish these known terrorist and why it keeps on releasing them to kill further civilians and soldiers.

is Pakistan Army stopping the Judiciary too from convicting these serial murderers that have killed thousands of civilans and soldiers too?

 

[Pioneerfirst]

Our politicians are almost failed.They especially PPP are more loyal to USA than Pakistan and think that their loyalty with USA will empower them in next election. she made a deal with US that she will work for the US.

 

[Xeric]

xeric - unfortunately the problem lies in the 'perception' that the army still 'stirs the drink' in pakistan and the present civilian govt. is just a 'facade' created by the US/pak establishment (read army) and therefore the army is in 'cahoots' with the US on the drone policy, fata, afghanistan, india. if the army is 'front and center', then the US congress will not 'support' the 'un-demcratic' army but the current disposition is 'palatable' to them. - its a bloody f^^^^^g mess we are in!!!

Sir i can tell you this with confidence that the Army is not the one who is calling the shots on vital policies and decisions. No doubt that the (Army's) danda is at work behind the scenes but then the intensity is exactly at the level that is merely required, nothing more, nothing less, that is to say, nor it is sitting idle and just watching the country going down the whirlpool, neither does it intervene when it comes to policy making. Yes, it's advice (when sought or OTHERWISE) is absolutely there where required, but then it does not pull the strings as it has been in the past with it's tools like the ISI or building up pressure inside the cooker. May be i can should that the Army is 'playing it cool' this time

But then you are also right that the fault lies with the perception, but then who makes the perception? It is made by the guys like you and me (atleast we do that when it comes to PDF, atleast), people who write columns with flowery english and the guys who come on tv and shout out loud whatever suites their politics.

So, we need to correct these people, the rest would automatically follow. But unfortunately there are some 'intellectuals' who, despite of their superior understanding and knowledge (deliberately or unwittingly) fails the grasp over issues. These, sir, are the guys we should be worried the most about!!

 

[Xeric]

IB, i think these 'ghairatmands' (if they indeed have the requisite amount of ghairat that they claim) should take measures which in turn should compel the likes of CJP and the civil society to go potent enough that the PPP govt reverses it decision regarding the R.Davis and the drone issues. How about by tomorrow 100s of petitions are entered in almost every court of Pakistan against the release of Davis? Let's see how gharitmand they actually are. Words, words and words, that's it, and oh yes BTW, can a guy sitting outside Pakistan can enter a petition in a Pakistani court? Just asking....

 

[kursed]

For a final time, the military is as opposed to the drone attacks as any of you here is.

Did Army's opposition to drone attacks start from the year 2008, or did it precede the elections?

Pray explain.

Director
General of Military Operations LtGen Pasha's briefing to the
group consisted largely of graphic video and other footage
demonstrating what one parliamentarian called the inhumane
and anti-Islamic nature of the militants. Pasha reportedly
blamed India, Russia and the UAE for supporting Baloch and
Taliban militancy and defended Pakistani sovereignty against
incursions by U.S. forces, but reportedly he also spoke
positively about what he termed the U.S. use of drones,
noting the vast majority of those killed in drone attacks
were foreign fighters or Taliban.

Source: Wikileaks

It'd be disastrously naive of anyone who knows about the history of Pakistan and how we've managed to get to this point to actually believe that Army is letting civilians - alone - to call all the important shots now. And if I'm not wrong, that's exactly what you've suggested in one of your replies to me as well.

Yes the Army plays a vital role when it comes to dealing with the West as regards to WoT, but that doesnt mean that one should only blame the Army for certain decisions.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-forces/99032-stop-maligning-military-7.html#post1593763

 

[Xeric]

Did Army's opposition to drone attacks start from the year 2008, or did it precede the elections?

Pray explain.

Source: Wikileaks

Is that you find it difficult to understand the theme behind a statement?